Flood gates - when to proceed?

[Midnight]

A couple of weeks ago whilst moored at Brighouse and after overnight rain the river came up and CRT sent a text to say flood gates where shut. Thinking I and the accompanying boats were stuck for a day at least, a couple of us walked down river to Mirfield passing flood gates at Anchor Pit, Cooper Bridge and Battyeford Cut.

 

Although Anchor Pit was in the red, the levels at Cooper Bridge and Battyeford were well into the yellow with both sets of gates cracked. Pushing the beams confirmed they would easily open. As there had been no further rain and none forecast it seemed very likely we could get our boats back down to the mooring later that day.

 

So I cadged a lift back to Brighouse whilst my colleague agreed to walk back and open the flood gates at Battyeford and Cooper Bridge and meet me at Kirklees top lock. At Brighouse the level was dropping nicely, just slightly above yellow and still falling so a couple of us drove up to Anchor Pit and opened the flood gates. On returning the Brighouse river level indicator showed yellow so we set off. Being the odd one and single handed I went first to be followed by the other two. On reaching Anchor Pit I spotted the locky who seemed to be keeping the gates open but as I approached I saw he was actually closing them. This caused a bit of confusion but I eventually reversed onto the mooring to a tirade of quite aggressive verbal from Mr Locky, who told me the river was closed and I shouldn't be on there. Furthermore he had driven down and closed the gates below and told me we had no right to open them. Naturally, I was not too pleased but explained the situation.

 

To be fair it was still showing red at Anchor Pit so I suggested the indicator was probably wrong as the levels above and below showed it safe to proceed. Eventually, he agreed to open one gate (?) for me and I told him two more boats were following and asked him to open both.

 

I met my colleague at Kirklees top lock as agreed and waited for the other boats to catch up. They told me the locky had done the same trick of closing the gates as they approached then gave them the same tirade of verbal. On reaching Cooper Bridge the gates had been closed by the locky but not fully as the levels were same. There's no landing stage here but after a bit of jiggling around we managed to tie up and re-open them. Battyeford gates were open and the river level indicator showed green.

 

This has left me wondering if boats are not allowed on the river until CRT say so even if the indicators show yellow and the flood gates can be opened. If the river at Anchor Pit had been in flood closing the gates to an oncoming boat would seem to be an irresponsible act so was Mr Locky over-stepping his authority?

 

 

 

 

 

[b0atman]

it would fetch into doubt your insurance if official statement is closed due to flood.

[The Lockie]

I think you will find it is an offence to interfere with a flood defence structure... Definately punishable by a fine and possible prison sentence..

[Midnight]

I think you will find it is an offence to interfere with a flood defence structure... Definately punishable by a fine and possible prison sentence..

 

When does opening a flood gate become interference? The Flood boards along the Calder clearly state that you can proceed with caution when showing yellow or green if the next set of flood gates are closed then what are you supposed to do?

 

Flood gates around here are often closed even on low water levels as some are self-closers. Are you saying it's an offence to open them?

 

If the river level is high it's not possible to open the gates!

[pearley]

Getting someone off above Cooper Bridge flood gates us a right pain with the ladder being placed in the centre of a concave curve and the stream trying to drag you down the river.

[Jim Riley]

I agree with Midnight, it's not "interfering" if boards are on yellow, I've opened a gate and gone upstream on yellow boards, coming out of Mirfield.

[matty40s]

I think you will find it is an offence to interfere with a flood defence structure... Definately punishable by a fine and possible prison sentence..

1. if you are already on the navigation, you may have no choice.

2.if it is a weekend, CRT may not open it until Monday, even if it has dropped.

 

Flood locks are there to protect, BUT ALSO to assist navigation in times of high waters - NOT stop it.

Edited April 25, 2016 by matty40s

[magictime]

 

When does opening a flood gate become interference?

 

When the navigation authority has told you it's supposed to be closed?

 

Sorry, but I'm struggling to see any grey area here. If CRT say such-and-such a flood gate/bridge/river is closed, then it's closed, isn't it?

[Jim Riley]

Some flood gates have 2 pairs of gates so that it is possible to lock through. I've also seen where the inner pair would have been in days of old when navigators were bold.... And the system was maintained.

[Mrs Trackman]

 

When the navigation authority has told you it's supposed to be closed?

 

Sorry, but I'm struggling to see any grey area here. If CRT say such-and-such a flood gate/bridge/river is closed, then it's closed, isn't it?

No it's not simple at all. When the soar is closed there is no notice put out. We have been in the situation where we came from Nottingham on a falling river trent on amber. turning onto the soar, which usually falls before the trent, the first indication that the soar is shut is approaching shut floodgates at Redhill. We are now on the wrong side of the flood lock so our choice is to stay on the wrong side or go through to the slightly safer side. boats have attempted to go back with disastrous consequences.

[b0atman]

surely if not meant to be opened then they would be locked ?

[magictime]

No it's not simple at all. When the soar is closed there is no notice put out. We have been in the situation where we came from Nottingham on a falling river trent on amber. turning onto the soar, which usually falls before the trent, the first indication that the soar is shut is approaching shut floodgates at Redhill. We are now on the wrong side of the flood lock so our choice is to stay on the wrong side or go through to the slightly safer side. boats have attempted to go back with disastrous consequences.

 

Again, I'm not seeing a grey area. If CRT haven't declared a river closed, or put any sort of warning in place, then of course you're entitled to assume it's OK to navigate on it as normal. If you then find a floodgate shut, and your safest option is to open it and go through, then of course that's what you should do (and I'm sure CRT would say the same). But that's a completely different situation from the one described by the OP, who knew CRT had decided to close the gates (and the navigation) that day, but decided to go through anyway.

[Midnight]

 

When the navigation authority has told you it's supposed to be closed?

 

Sorry, but I'm struggling to see any grey area here. If CRT say such-and-such a flood gate/bridge/river is closed, then it's closed, isn't it?

 

CRT's alert was an 'advice notice' that flood gates were shut not an instruction that the river was closed.

 

If the river level indicator board says OK to proceed in the yellow and then you meet a locky who shuts the gates as you approach that's a grey area to me. When the levels are in the normal range gates are easily opened. In flood conditions it's not physically possible to open them.

[Tony Dunkley]

It is essential to distinguish between floodgates and flood locks.

 

Floodgates are single pairs of gates that can't be passed when they're on (closed), but flood locks have two pairs of gates, just like any other lock, and are intended to allow navigation to continue during times of higher than normal river levels.

The question of whether or not a particular section of river is closed to navigation then boils down to whether it is a pair of floodgates that are 'on', or if it's a flood lock that's in operation.

 

As for the question about the floodgates below Brighouse, if there was no head of water holding them to, the river levels were falling, and it was physically possible to open them, then they should have been 'off ' anyway. The C&RT goon who thought and said otherwise, and closed the gates on a boat approaching downriver, doesn't know his job.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Tony Dunkley

[magictime]

CRT's alert was an 'advice notice' that flood gates were shut not an instruction that the river was closed.

 

But closing the flood gates on a stretch amounts to closing that stretch to navigation, doesn't it (since they're supposed to be operated by the navigation authority and not by boaters)? That certainly seems to have been the lockie's understanding.

 

It also seems to be Tony's understanding that 'flood gates on' = 'navigation closed'...

 

 

Floodgates are single pairs of gates that can't be passed when they're on (closed), but flood locks have two pairs of gates, just like any other lock, and are intended to allow navigation to continue during times of higher than normal river levels.

The question of whether or not a particular section of river is closed to navigation then boils down to whether it is a pair of floodgates that are 'on', or if it's a flood lock that's in operation.

 

As for the question about the floodgates below Brighouse, if there was no head of water holding them to, the river levels were falling, and it was physically possible to open them, then they should have been 'off ' anyway. The C&RT goon who thought and said otherwise, and closed the gates on a boat approaching downriver, doesn't know his job.

 

...although there's a further question of whether that floodgate/navigation should be closed. Of course it's possible that CRT's judgement might be questionable some given occasion, but surely it doesn't follow that boaters are entitled to start managing flood gates themselves if they think they know better?

[NB Victorianna]

I was on the Calder last Tuesday. I read the warning boards at each lock which tell you the state of the river. At Brighouse it was yellow and Anchor Pit gates were open. Same all the way down until I got to Wakefield Fall Ing lock. The Calder was green and so I went on towards Stanley Ferry only to find Broadreach flood lock closed. What should I have done? If I obey the indicator at Fall Ing then I'm okay but could be prosecuted if I had opened Broadreach. I just don't get it! Surely it would be better to have an indicator at the lock onto the river showing the position of the flood gate/ lock rather than a green indicator advising the boater it's safe to use only to find the gates closed.

Also how do you know if the navigation is closed anyway?

[Mac of Cygnet]

Surely you will not be prosecuted if you open floodgates for the safety of your boat and yourself?

 

I was at Cooper Bridge earlier this week with the floodgates closed when a boat came round the corner from the Huddersfield, and I was able to open the gates for them. Mind you, they claimed to have seen no notices and knew nothing about level indicators. I can only assume they'd never been on a river. It was a rapid learning experience for them.

[Midnight]

I was on the Calder last Tuesday. I read the warning boards at each lock which tell you the state of the river. At Brighouse it was yellow and Anchor Pit gates were open. Same all the way down until I got to Wakefield Fall Ing lock. The Calder was green and so I went on towards Stanley Ferry only to find Broadreach flood lock closed. What should I have done? If I obey the indicator at Fall Ing then I'm okay but could be prosecuted if I had opened Broadreach. I just don't get it! Surely it would be better to have an indicator at the lock onto the river showing the position of the flood gate/ lock rather than a green indicator advising the boater it's safe to use only to find the gates closed.

Also how do you know if the navigation is closed anyway?

 

Broadreach is an electrically operated flood lock not a flood gate so can be used at any time. I came from Leeds earlier this year on a normal level and had to operate this lock I think there was less than an inch difference between levels.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Midnight

[NB Victorianna]

Broadreach is an electrically operated flood lock not a flood gate so can be used at any time. I came from Leeds earlier this year on a normal level and had to operate this lock I think there was less than an inch difference between levels.

When I was able to get an Internet connection I checked CRT stoppages and it stated that Broadreach was closed until 1243 on the Wednesday. How would you know what was open or closed if you have no internet? It seems a proper mess to me and to be honest if my boat or lives were at risk then I would go with what Mac said.

[NB Victorianna]

When the navigation authority has told you it's supposed to be closed?

 

Sorry, but I'm struggling to see any grey area here. If CRT say such-and-such a flood gate/bridge/river is closed, then it's closed, isn't it?

My question is, how do you know if the navigation is closed if you do not use a smartphone PC or other internet based system? There is nothing at the locks except the indicator board which Midnight correctly states, gives you permission to proceed on yellow and green so how can you then be liable?

 

I think I would take legal action against which ever authority had failed to notify me properly if I got prosecuted for opening a flood lock/ gate to protect life or property.

 

Thanks for the info.

[Midnight]

My question is, how do you know if the navigation is closed if you do not use a smartphone PC or other internet based system? There is nothing at the locks except the indicator board which Midnight correctly states, gives you permission to proceed on yellow and green so how can you then be liable?

 

I think I would take legal action against which ever authority had failed to notify me properly if I got prosecuted for opening a flood lock/ gate to protect life or property.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

I don't think you would be prosecuted if you went out on yellow only to find the next flood lock closed. If it's operational it's not closed!

[Mike Todd]

 

I don't think you would be prosecuted if you went out on yellow only to find the next flood lock closed. If it's operational it's not closed!

Nigel M will no doubt correct me if I am wrong but I believe that the red/amber/green signs are only advisory. The only time that passage is not possible or legitimate is if the gates are actually secures, usually with a padlock and chain. removing such a chain will undoubtedly break some bylaw or another.

 

However, navigating on red will almost certainly invalidate the insurance and so one could be prosecuted for using the navigation without valid insurance.

 

Whether or not you would be prosecuted you surely ought to be detained as having lost all reason - the warnings are there for a purpose and avoiding boats coming to grief on rapidly flowing waters is a wholly good thing.

[Midnight]

Nigel M will no doubt correct me if I am wrong but I believe that the red/amber/green signs are only advisory. The only time that passage is not possible or legitimate is if the gates are actually secures, usually with a padlock and chain. removing such a chain will undoubtedly break some bylaw or another.

 

However, navigating on red will almost certainly invalidate the insurance and so one could be prosecuted for using the navigation without valid insurance.

 

Whether or not you would be prosecuted you surely ought to be detained as having lost all reason - the warnings are there for a purpose and avoiding boats coming to grief on rapidly flowing waters is a wholly good thing.

 

On the Calder going out on red is silly as the next set of flood gates are likely to be closed and there's only a couple of flood locks which you can work though if you need to. The river usually drops quite quickly but CRT don't respond quite as quick. In fact they can be bloody awkward sometimes as my OP suggests.

 

Edited to add

In the OP the boards were yellow at Brighouse, Red at Anchor Pit & green at Battyeford so what chance have boaters not familiar with that area

Edited July 17, 2016 by Midnight

[Mike Todd]

 

On the Calder going out on red is silly as the next set of flood gates are likely to be closed and there's only a couple of flood locks which you can work though if you need to. The river usually drops quite quickly but CRT don't respond quite as quick. In fact they can be bloody awkward sometimes as my OP suggests.

 

Edited to add

In the OP the boards were yellow at Brighouse, Red at Anchor Pit & green at Battyeford so what chance have boaters not familiar with that area

Is it not the case that some of the difficulty comes from still having a per-lock mentality rather than a whole navigation perspective? Levels can vary considerably, relative to the normal level, especially as a short term flood passes along. What will look as yellow in one part may well, for a time, be red elsewhere.