The canals are male dominated........Really?

[MHS]

According to an article on the BBC

 

"We toyed with it for a while, took a trip on a friend's narrow boat and realised the canals were an extremely male-dominated space, so we thought 'why not start a revolution on the canals?'."

 

What a load of tosh.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36015697

 

The canals are a mix of both sexes and we've met as many female single handers as men. My wife and many other women enjoy doing the locks and personally we share them.(when she lets me)

 

I do hope that their boat works out well and is enjoyed my many people. It's just a shame they are unable to include men. Is a new, female only club acceptable if a male only equivalent would be deemed to be sexist?

Edited April 14, 2016 by MHS

[manxmike]

Girls can join the Scouts, but boys are not allowed to join the Guides

[Phil Ambrose]

Cannot believe that I have wasted some of my dwindling time left on this mortal coil by reading this claptrap.

I showed it to Chris who said "women who spout all this sort of tosh give womankind s bad name"

Phil

Edited April 14, 2016 by Phil Ambrose

[Proper Charlie]

I don't think I've ever read the word 'space' so many times in an article that has nothing to do with stars and planets.

[Lysander]

Yes, I had exactly the same thoughts when I read the article. My hackles were immediately raised by the use of the word 'barge'...

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I wish them the dest of luck.

 

 

(6 posts, 5 male, 1 not telling, male dominated?)

Best of luck, not dest.

[Athy]

_{I'm not sure if they are or not. But if it's true, does it matter?}

[patty-ann]

That article does nowt for women....yuck

[PaulG]

On my boat the sexes are represented 50-50.

Any thoughts of male domination are but a distant dream.

 

Wat a load of old tosh. Look like a bunch of grant-seekers to me...

[Dekazer]

I haven't particularly experienced the canals as a male dominated space, in my experience; I've known more female single handers than male.

 

This forum, however, most definitely feels male dominated.

 

I also have enormous sympathy for all women who experience - on a near daily basis - the low level sexism that can really wear you down. Catcalling, being asked to make the tea when you're the most senior professional in the meeting etc. If you find some of it hard to believe, I recommend the Every Day Sexism project, which collects and collates women's experiences. http://everydaysexism.com/

[Proper Charlie]

being asked to make the tea when you're the most senior professional in the meeting

 

My wife had that the other day. She's head of HR and was part of a team interviewing somebody. He called her 'love' as he left too. Not surprisingly, he didn't get the job.

[nicknorman]

I haven't particularly experienced the canals as a male dominated space, in my experience; I've known more female single handers than male.

 

This forum, however, most definitely feels male dominated.

 

I also have enormous sympathy for all women who experience - on a near daily basis - the low level sexism that can really wear you down. Catcalling, being asked to make the tea when you're the most senior professional in the meeting etc. If you find some of it hard to believe, I recommend the Every Day Sexism project, which collects and collates women's experiences. http://everydaysexism.com/

But surely the things you mention are better tackled head on rather than by retreating into gaggle of gurls and in fact repeating the sins of your gender's oppressors by promoting sexual discrimination?

[Dekazer]

 

My wife had that the other day. She's head of HR and was part of a team interviewing somebody. He called her 'love' as he left too. Not surprisingly, he didn't get the job.

 

How infuriating for her! It happens more than many people realise. Not to say that most women - on the canals particularly - aren't massively privileged in most ways (ethnicity, class, wealth, health etc), but it does grind your gears.

But surely the things you mention are better tackled head on rather than by retreating into gaggle of gurls and in fact repeating the sins of your gender's oppressors by promoting sexual discrimination?

 

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I don't think single sex space promotes discrimination and can, conversely, be a comfortable place to discuss ideas and feelings. If you wanted to explore that argument, you could argue that it's not possible for a group to discriminate against themselves or against a more privileged group. You'd need a lot of energy, time and commitment to explore that on here though

 

Tell you what, though, you'd be hard pressed to get me into most art galleries!

[nicknorman]

being asked to make the tea when you're the most senior professional in the meeting etc.

Anyway I have the solution. Every time you are asked to do that you either make the tea particularly disgusting, and/or routinely "accidentally" spill it all over the lap of he that demand it. The demands would soon stop.

I don't think single sex space promotes discrimination and can, conversely, be a comfortable place to discuss ideas and feelings. If you wanted to explore that argument, you could argue that it's not possible for a group to discriminate against themselves or against a more privileged group.

Sexual discrimination is making decisions and taking actions based purely on someone's gender to their detriment. I find it hard to see how welcoming one gender and excluding the other gender could possibly be anything else. It is a very dangerous and fallacious path to presume that sexual discrimination can only apply to females. Although we do hear it a lot!

[Athy]

Is it not possible that the lady was asked to make tea simply because it was known that she made better tea than anyone else in the room?

[nicknorman]

Is it not possible that the lady was asked to make tea simply because it was known that she made better tea than anyone else in the room?

In which case it was her fault! When Jeff and I got together 23 years ago I cooked a succession of really terrible dinners. Result: for the next 20 years Jeff did nearly all of the cooking. Only after I retired and Jeff was still working did I feel morally obliged to take over the cooking. Curses, but I did get away with it for 20 years!

[Dekazer]

I don't really have the time today to debate this (much as I'd love to, of course), but if you use a sociological approach to understanding discrimination, it's about systemic power. By that logic sexism works to discriminate against the sex (women) with less systemic power. The same applies to racism, discrimination based on sexuality etc.

 

Bigotry, ignorance, ill manners and stupidity cut across all sociological barriers, of course.

 

ETA: I won't open the intersectionality can here and now, but if you're interested there is some deeply interesting and challenging writing about it online. This is a great starter for ten: http://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyle/2014/04/kimberl-crenshaw-intersectionality-i-wanted-come-everyday-metaphor-anyone-could

Edited April 14, 2016 by Dekazer

[wrigglefingers]

Well, equally the asker could pause and reflect whether he, himself, could possibly make the tea as an act of thoughtfulness, rather being waited on. I often volunteer to make tea not because it's my given role to do so, but because I'd like to see people at ease and comfortable and I take great pleasure from that. I know men who feel exactly the same.

 

In my experience, low-level, every day sexism towards women is what really cheeses me off and it's not because I routinely think all men are sexist, because they're not, most are just thoughtless and or conditioned. It's the sexism that assumes they know what I'm thinking or going to do because I'm female, disregarding anything they might actually know or not know about me. I find it highly dismissive and unintelligent. You can disagree with me because my argument is faulty, not because that behaviour can be ascribed to my being female.

 

In terms of the waterways, in my forty years or so of boating, there has been a huge change in terms of the number of women leisure boating solo or together, I suspect the proportion of men and women boating together remains largely the same. What never fails to amuse or annoy me (depending on context) is that I steer my own boat and men boating with me, do the locks. Mostly that's been because I've had a severe knee injury, but I like steering too. The comments range from the mildly amusing to the downright abusive. I will never forget the towpath warrior who screamed at me as I was trapped in one of the Tyrley locks that he was going to call the police as I had stolen and was wrecking somebody's lovely boat. I must admit, I simply revved Cobbett up to drown out the racket.

[cuthound]

In which case it was her fault! When Jeff and I got together 23 years ago I cooked a succession of really terrible dinners. Result: for the next 20 years Jeff did nearly all of the cooking. Only after I retired and Jeff was still working did I feel morally obliged to take over the cooking. Curses, but I did get away with it for 20 years!

Excellent strategy, in the first year of my marriage I "accidentally" burned a black triangle shape into one of wifey's tops. Never got asked to do the ironing since.

[nicknorman]

I don't really have the time today to debate this (much as I'd love to, of course), but if you use a sociological approach to understanding discrimination, it's about systemic power. By that logic sexism works to discriminate against the sex (women) with less systemic power. The same applies to racism, discrimination based on sexuality etc.

 

Bigotry, ignorance, ill manners and stupidity cut across all sociological barriers, of course.

 

ETA: I won't open the intersectionality can here and now, but if you're interested there is some deeply interesting and challenging writing about it online. This is a great starter for ten: http://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyle/2014/04/kimberl-crenshaw-intersectionality-i-wanted-come-everyday-metaphor-anyone-could

This is what I would call a selective discrimination definition. Never a good idea in the long run. Anyway we shall be accused of being political soon!

[Dekazer]

I couldn't agree more, wrigglefingers

 

I have to crack on with my day, but before I leave, I'd like to share an interesting article I read this morning, on the subject of luck. Having had the luck to be born male (white / heterosexual / in a developed nation / able bodied / cis-gendered etc) has an important contribution to what you achieve in life, in addition to your own hard work and talent

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/why-luck-matters-more-than-you-might-think/476394/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AtlanticBusinessChannel+%28The+Atlantic+-+Business%29

 

Recognising one's own luck in life also makes one more generous and altruistic. Makes me wonder about the links to having religious faith (recognising the role of something other than oneself) and feeling the need to support those less well off...

[nicknorman]

When I go to the supermarket and the checkout lady asks me if I need help with the packing, I always take the subtext to be "you are a man, clearly you have no idea how to pack shopping into a bag effectively, you must need help". Downright sexual discrimination I tell you!

[Dekazer]

This is what I would call a selective discrimination definition. Never a good idea in the long run. Anyway we shall be accused of being political soon!

 

It's in the air at the moment, just let's not get into the EUref

[wrigglefingers]

When I go to the supermarket and the checkout lady asks me if I need help with the packing, I always take the subtext to be "you are a man, clearly you have no idea how to pack shopping into a bag effectively, you must need help". Downright sexual discrimination I tell you!

Nah, they ask me that too and I assume it's because I'm so inept ...

[jenlyn]

Sometimes I am thankful that I am generally unsociable. I don't think I could handle all the responsibilities some of you seem to be burdened with.