Why is there a shortage of boats for sale...?

[Texasboater]

Is that not your boat David? Rather unsporting to not declare your interest if it is.

Everyone knows it's David's boat. Poor bugger has been doing the broker's job on it for five months!

[MtB]

 

Why does it worry you? Surely more boaters is a good thing?

 

 

Why do so many think this? Aren't the canals overcrowded enough already?

[Ange]

Why do so many think this? Aren't the canals overcrowded enough already?

In the south and Midlands maybe but there are miles of uncluttered canals further north. Maybe you should think about relocating?

[Gwydion]

 

 

Why do so many think this? Aren't the canals overcrowded enough already?

 

I think there's room for plenty more, so long as everyone plays the game. What is it, just over 30,000 boats on the network?

 

I don't venture into London, so maybe I'd take a different view if I did. But the Midlands and further south on the GU don't seem excessively overcrowded to me.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Gwydion

[MtB]

In the south and Midlands maybe but there are miles of uncluttered canals further north. Maybe you should think about relocating?

 

 

Not sure what this has to do with my querying of Sabcat's assertion that "more boaters is a good thing"...

 

Is he a northern boater in an uncluttered canal?

[Ange]

Not sure what this has to do with my querying of Sabcat's assertion that "more boaters is a good thing"...

 

Is he a northern boater in an uncluttered canal?

Where Sabcat boats is irrelevant. His was a general assertion, yours was a regional response. That's the point I was trying to make. You seem to have this " we've no room for any more" attitude when anyone from anywhere says "let's encourage more boats". There is plenty of room, just not in certain areas which make up a tiny proportion of the system.

[cuthound]

Why do so many think this? Aren't the canals overcrowded enough already?

Within reason, I.e. not like London, more posts = more revenue for CRT = better maintained canals for all.

 

The only other options to produce significantly more income for CRT are:

 

1. Big hike in licence fees,

 

2. Government increase the subsidy.

 

Neither are likely IMO.

[Guest]

..

Edited March 4, 2016 by MJG

[bassplayer]

Maybe you should think about relocating?

Exactly. Only by travelling around the whole network will you get a true picture.

[alan_fincher]

Why do so many think this? Aren't the canals overcrowded enough already?

 

A bit rich coming from someone with two boats!

[Guest]

In the south and Midlands maybe but there are miles of uncluttered canals further north. Maybe you should think about relocating?

I doubt things have altered much since we gave up ownership but yes we would often only see a handful of boats moving even on so called busy weekend ends in the summer. Long stretches could be passed without seeing a moored boat and VMs had loads of space. We rarely queued for a lock and even if we had to wait for a boat coming out all the boats (not just two max) waiting could normally get in the lock anyway.

 

The Northern waterways are often not as pretty as some other parts of the country but for the ability to cruise without some of the issues further South they are hard to beat.

 

Exactly. Only by travelling around the whole network will you get a true picture.

We didn't come close to covering the whole system but the contrast in 'busyness' between being based on the t and m and the A&CN was quite stark. Especially on busy summer or bank holiday weekends.

[alan_fincher]

The Northern waterways are often not as pretty as some other parts of the country but for the ability to cruise without some of the issues further South they are hard to beat.

 

Depends on what you call "pretty" I guess, but we found the scenery as we traversed the L&L and (particularly) the Rochdale the most stunning we have experienced anywhere.

 

Really pleased we managed to fit such a trip in before buying a boat that will not do the trip.

 

It's not a show stopper, by any means, but the much lower usage of these canals also seems to mean a much lower level of investment in the (very considerable) infrastructure. One got totally used to the fact that the majority of locks had at least some (and often several) non working paddles, and that in some flights locks on the L&L locks where everything worked was a rarity. If (say) the Hatton flight on the GU had large amounts of paddle gear disconnected, or needed added wooden structures to stop the gates collapsing as say at Wigan there would be huge complaint. On the L&L it seems to be accepted that it will never be better than it is. For all that we enjoyed it enormously. (We didn't even try the Huddersfield canals, to be able to compare those).

[Guest]

Depends on what you call "pretty" I guess, but we found the scenery as we traversed the L&L and (particularly) the Rochdale the most stunning we have experienced anywhere.

 

Really pleased we managed to fit such a trip in before buying a boat that will not do the trip.

It's not a show stopper, by any means, but the much lower usage of these canals also seems to mean a much lower level of investment in the (very considerable) infrastructure. One got totally used to the fact that the majority of locks had at least some (and often several) non working paddles, and that in some flights locks on the L&L locks where everything worked was a rarity. If (say) the Hatton flight on the GU had large amounts of paddle gear disconnected, or needed added wooden structures to stop the gates collapsing as say at Wigan there would be huge complaint. On the L&L it seems to be accepted that it will never be better than it is. For all that we enjoyed it enormously. (We didn't even try the Huddersfield canals, to be able to compare those).

I was careful not to say 'all' but some. There are some of the prettiest bits of the system up here, but some sections that I don't think you ventured onto are quite bland. Notably sections of the A&CN east of Knottiingley, parts of the river Aire and the New Junction Canal. All interesting in their own way and with the occasional pretty bit like Sykehouse junction and Pollington but really more 'functional' than scenic. Given their original purpose though this is entirely understandable.

 

The Selby is of course the exception and is quite pretty along most of its short length.

[nicknorman]

 

Is he a northern boater in an uncluttered canal?

Yes. Northern BCN and they don't come much less cluttered than the Cannock Extension!

[David Schweizer]

Is that not your boat David? Rather unsporting to not declare your interest if it is.

 

The comment was made slightly tongue in cheek as it is the only boat on the canal system with the name Helvetia. and most regular posters will know it is our boat. We have been around for nearly twenty years and have visited most parts of the sytem in that time, often encountering forum members on route. So not really a secret.

 

Have you considered that as someone who neither declares their name, age, name of their boat, or their location, some people may think that making critcal observations about others is "rather unsporting"

[bassplayer]

I doubt things have altered much since we gave up ownership but yes we would often only see a handful of boats moving even on so called busy weekend ends in the summer. Long stretches could be passed without seeing a moored boat and VMs had loads of space. We rarely queued for a lock and even if we had to wait for a boat coming out all the boats (not just two max) waiting could normally get in the lock anyway.

 

The Northern waterways are often not as pretty as some other parts of the country but for the ability to cruise without some of the issues further South they are hard to beat.

 

 

We didn't come close to covering the whole system but the contrast in 'busyness' between being based on the t and m and the A&CN was quite stark. Especially on busy summer or bank holiday weekends.

I don't think many would argue about the number of boats in London and parts of the K&A either. I suppose we can only speak as we find but making sweeping statements about the whole system based on our small world view can be misleading.

 

Maybe it's not just about the total number of boats on the system, it's also about how they are spread out. The reasons for that are probably not much different to why someone would buy a house in a large city or one in a secluded spot in the country.

 

As I have to accept that boats are becoming more and more somewhere to live as well as something to cruise the system on, the role of the waterways are shifting.

 

Maybe the solution is to build more marinas near built up areas purely with live aboards in mind. Then the waterways can be freed up more for cruising.

[Emerald Fox]

Yes, but when I was looking at narrowboats to buy in mid-2014 Apollo Duck had over 1,000 listed. In May 2014 (I kept the figures) there were 370 cruiser sterns listed

 

I bet 360 of these had engines that were knackered!

[Athy]

 

The comment was made slightly tongue in cheek as it is the only boat on the canal system with the name Helvetia. and most regular posters will know it is our boat. We have been around for nearly twenty years and have visited most parts of the sytem in that time, often encountering forum members on route. So not really a secret.

 

Have you considered that as someone who neither declares their name, age, name of their boat, or their location, some people may think that making critcal observations about others is "rather unsporting"

I've rather sportingly awarded a greeno for that post.

[Emerald Fox]

I've rather sportingly awarded a greeno for that post.

 

Touche! That's why when you put 1, 2 popped up!

[Mike Todd]

I recall a time not that long ago that the number of Narrowboats on the duck was consistently around the 1000 mark. It was like that for months and never fell below 900 and often would go up to 11 or 12 hundred.

 

I once commented on how the figure seemed to stick around that number.

 

If it's dropped that far there is definitely something different going on.

Could be that the brokers are being more selective about what they take on. Too many unsold boats costs them money and does not do their reputation much good.

 

A bit rich coming from someone with two boats!

I think you missed the tongue in cheek!

[Guest]

Mike Todd, on 04 Mar 2016 - 10:28 AM, said:

Could be that the brokers are being more selective about what they take on. Too many unsold boats costs them money and does not do their reputation much good.

 

I would say no - as AD includes private sales as well as brokers. If people still needed to sell they would be on there as a private sale if they were unable to place it with a broker. The total number suggests boats are selling quicker than they were than when even when we put ours up for sale this time last year. Or that people are just not selling of course.

[Guest]

David Schweizer, on 04 Mar 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

 

The comment was made slightly tongue in cheek as it is the only boat on the canal system with the name Helvetia. and most regular posters will know it is our boat. We have been around for nearly twenty years and have visited most parts of the sytem in that time, often encountering forum members on route. So not really a secret.

 

Have you considered that as someone who neither declares their name, age, name of their boat, or their location, some people may think that making critcal observations about others is "rather unsporting"

 

.... and the glaring give away clue of course is the fact that your boat name appears directly under your avatar...

[RufusR]

When we went looking for our boat last summer we were guzumped at least twice , as soon as a good one came up it was gone before we even could view it in many cases . The Brokers are crying out for boats to sell due to demand but they are just not there .

 

As with alot of things it is not one thing but a combination that is causing the problem

 

1. Demand .. lots of canal TV ( tim and Pru , barging around britain , and more etc etc ) are painting living on canals are the idillic life , London ... ( nuff said ) .. Pension rules change meaning alot more retirees want a boat etc etc

2. Supply , less boats made during recession means less newer second hand boats available for one thing . Also tighter rules on insurance ( most companies now wont insure a springer for example without a hull survey at the very least ) and safty are taking out alot of the entry level boats IMO .

 

 

so classic under supply and over demand means prices are silly and good boats are just not around for long .

[David Schweizer]

When we went looking for our boat last summer we were guzumped at least twice , as soon as a good one came up it was gone before we even could view it in many cases . The Brokers are crying out for boats to sell due to demand but they are just not there .

 

As with alot of things it is not one thing but a combination that is causing the problem

 

1. Demand .. lots of canal TV ( tim and Pru , barging around britain , and more etc etc ) are painting living on canals are the idillic life , London ... ( nuff said ) .. Pension rules change meaning alot more retirees want a boat etc etc

2. Supply , less boats made during recession means less newer second hand boats available for one thing . Also tighter rules on insurance ( most companies now wont insure a springer for example without a hull survey at the very least ) and safty are taking out alot of the entry level boats IMO .

 

 

so classic under supply and over demand means prices are silly and good boats are just not around for long .

 

Whilst I agree with some of that, we have never had any problems with Hull surveys, Insurance or Boat Safety on our 34 year old boat. But some people seem to think that old means worn out, which is simply untrue. Just like cars, boats are bult to different sprcifications, and whilst most of us will recognise the difference between different makes of car, not that many people "new" to the canals recognize the difference, between different boat builders, or the quality of steel used. Consequently, they use the "how old is it " consideration to make their decisions, not realizing that a well built, well maintained, older boat can be exceptionally good value..

Edited March 4, 2016 by David Schweizer

[alan_fincher]

As far as Apollo Duck goes, I get the distinct impression that less of the adverts are now boats that have actually already changed hands, but have remained for months afterwards still advertised.

 

Certainly a few years back this was a distinct problem with AD, which somehow seems to have been tightened up on, (not sure how, though - perhaps a "for sale" advert now gets automatically expired far more quickly if you don't keep updating or renewing it?)

 

So I am not sure absolute numbers on AD now, versus a few years ago, necessarily indicate as big a decline in boats actively for sale as one might suppose.