White smoke then black smoke (BMC 1.8)

[gazza]

just a typical bmc very smokey and poor starters

 

 

only knackered ones.......

 

 

Im not going over old ground again, but for the avoidance of doubt, a good one will start no problem.

[peterboat]

yes i remember sherpas being push started when they brand new. thats why the forces bought the petrol ones the passengers got to travel in the minibus rather than push them

[gazza]

yes i remember sherpas being push started when they brand new. thats why the forces bought the petrol ones the passengers got to travel in the minibus rather than push them

That statement amazes me, the pongo's crap army of mechanics could operate a Centurion with an archaic RR meteor but couldn't manage a humble BMC 1.8 diesel?

 

After all, Postman Pat, British Gas, the Sunshine Variety Bus and a fair few good old Norfolk Boys opetating hire fleets managed OK - not forgetting Tony Brooks and his colleagues who had them in canal boats.

 

The British Army, be the bust?

[peterboat]

That statement amazes me, the pongo's crap army of mechanics could operate a Centurion with an archaic RR meteor but couldn't manage a humble BMC 1.8 diesel?

 

After all, Postman Pat, British Gas, the Sunshine Variety Bus and a fair few good old Norfolk Boys opetating hire fleets managed OK - not forgetting Tony Brooks and his colleagues who had them in canal boats.

 

The British Army, be the bust?

the point is they were brand new and on trial both the petrols and the diesels, and the diesels were crap, and the petrols less crap. the mechanics didnt touch them because they never got taken into service the diesels that is. and i hate to say it but army mechanics work in conditions that would have you crying whilst they just get on with the job.

[gazza]

the point is they were brand new and on trial both the petrols and the diesels, and the diesels were crap, and the petrols less crap. the mechanics didnt touch them because they never got taken into service the diesels that is. and i hate to say it but army mechanics work in conditions that would have you crying whilst they just get on with the job.

Peter, just reread my post, poxy autotype. Crap should have been Crack. Bust should have been Best (it was their strapline on theor recruiting campaigns when I was a teenager)

 

I will go and right 500 lines :- I must proof read before posting.

 

Not on my phone though, it will come out I Miss Pasting Roads Before Pissing.

 

BTW your last comment is a bit unneeded and presumptuous - You Don't Know Me Man!!

 

please accept my apologies for the autocorrect gaffs, I'll leave them up to give a point to my apology.

[Tony Brooks]

the point is they were brand new and on trial both the petrols and the diesels, and the diesels were crap, and the petrols less crap. the mechanics didnt touch them because they never got taken into service the diesels that is. and i hate to say it but army mechanics work in conditions that would have you crying whilst they just get on with the job.

 

And at one time I think the MOD vehicles had to be petrol or dual fuel. Certainly our REME training Bedfords had dual fuel injector pumps so they would run on petrol if need be. I understand it was to do with the fear in those days that diesel may not be so easy to come by if it ever became necessary to operate across Eastern Europe.

 

On the fleet the 1.5s were always the worse really cold starters and needed a slow count to 30 on the glow plugs. You can not compare the heating ability of the pin type 1.5 plugs with modern ones, the current draw tells you that. They all tended to smoke a bit for a few minutes after starting but comparing them with modern Jap units is not really fair because computer combustion modelling was not around when the 1.5 was designed. it is also not fair to compare them with modern cars. Most diesel cars nowadays are direct injection that are much better cold starters than indirect with no glow plugs. The glow plugs on modern cars are more to do with noise and pollution when cold than better starting.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Tony Brooks

[peterboat]

 

And at one time I think the MOD vehicles had to be petrol or dual fuel. Certainly our REME training Bedfords had dual fuel injector pumps so they would run on petrol if need be. I understand it was to do with the fear in those days that diesel may not be so easy to come by if it ever became necessary to operate across Eastern Europe.

 

On the fleet the 1.5s were always the worse really cold starters and needed a slow count to 30 on the glow plugs. You can not compare the heating ability of the pin type 1.5 plugs with modern ones, the current draw tells you that. They all tended to smoke a bit for a few minutes after starting but comparing them with modern Jap units is not really fair because computer combustion modelling was not around when the 1.5 was designed. it is also not fair to compare them with modern cars. Most diesel cars nowadays are direct injection that are much better cold starters than indirect with no glow plugs. The glow plugs on modern cars are more to do with noise and pollution when cold than better starting.

you are right tony bedford mks had duel fuel pumps but tks and later mjs never had it. in my early years, i have put kero in mks whilst on exercise as we had nothing else left and it ran ok. it wasnt just me that didnt like the diesel sherpas, dave who worked for leyland had no time for them either, a good one was flat out at 60 whereas the petrols were much quicker and better starters. it was a revolution when they fitted the 1.9 Peugeot unit to them, but still not as good as the 2.0 litre o series.

in boats when running they are ok for an engine of the time. but time has moved on, and i would avoid them, as there are plenty of modern diesel engined boats out there.

Peter, just reread my post, poxy autotype. Crap should have been Crack. Bust should have been Best (it was their strapline on theor recruiting campaigns when I was a teenager)

 

I will go and right 500 lines :- I must proof read before posting.

 

Not on my phone though, it will come out I Miss Pasting Roads Before Pissing.

 

BTW your last comment is a bit unneeded and presumptuous - You Don't Know Me Man!!

 

please accept my apologies for the autocorrect gaffs, I'll leave them up to give a point to my apology.

no problem gazza i have a problem with full stops etc. caps have died on my puter i will really have to get it fixed

[Jess--]

I'm not going to knock the sherpa engines...

 

My dad had one he was trying to kill (as he had a newer engine ready to fit).

 

that sherpa went through (at least) 3 cabs, and 2 flat bed backs before the chassis gave up.

 

the engine is now in a narrow boat and still going strong

[Southern Star]

 

 

only knackered ones.......

 

 

Im not going over old ground again, but for the avoidance of doubt, a good one will start no problem.

I suppose it depends how you define "knackered". It takes about 20 seconds of cranking to fire up after a long lay-up in cold weather, subsequently it fires up pretty much straight away, it doesn't smoke after a few seconds of running, makes no untoward noises, uses less than a pint of oil between oil changes, doesn't leak oil or water and has run perfectly covering around 1,000 miles in the 18 months I've owned it. I certainly wouldn't dream of having it rebuilt or replaced just because it takes a bit of coaxing into life once or twice a year.

 

It doesn't start as readily as the diesel engine in my car, but then I wouldn't really expect it to.

[gazza]

I suppose it depends how you define "knackered". It takes about 20 seconds of cranking to fire up after a long lay-up in cold weather, subsequently it fires up pretty much straight away, it doesn't smoke after a few seconds of running, makes no untoward noises, uses less than a pint of oil between oil changes, doesn't leak oil or water and has run perfectly covering around 1,000 miles in the 18 months I've owned it. I certainly wouldn't dream of having it rebuilt or replaced just because it takes a bit of coaxing into life once or twice a year.

 

It doesn't start as readily as the diesel engine in my car, but then I wouldn't really expect it to.

Totally agree.

 

Do you start it with an open throttle as has been mentioned before?

 

A modern timer relay for the heater plugs isn't a bad idea either, you get heat during and after starting, helps clean up smoke a wee bit.

[peterboat]

I suppose it depends how you define "knackered". It takes about 20 seconds of cranking to fire up after a long lay-up in cold weather, subsequently it fires up pretty much straight away, it doesn't smoke after a few seconds of running, makes no untoward noises, uses less than a pint of oil between oil changes, doesn't leak oil or water and has run perfectly covering around 1,000 miles in the 18 months I've owned it. I certainly wouldn't dream of having it rebuilt or replaced just because it takes a bit of coaxing into life once or twice a year.

 

It doesn't start as readily as the diesel engine in my car, but then I wouldn't really expect it to.

just a thought star does it turn over fast, or is it a bit sluggish. both of daves thornycroft bmc 1800s have needed starter notors last year, the bearings in them were a bit worn so it was a bit slow to start when cold

[Southern Star]

I give it near full throttle, and the starter motor absolutely whizzes the engine around. It seems to start in pretty much the same way as the diesel engines I remember being fitted to 1960s cars and vans. I will check the glow plugs next time I'm up, although the last owner did replace them according to the paperwork.

 

I would also tend to suspect the injectors, except that on a 350 mile cruise last year she only averaged 0.7 litres of fuel per engine hour which I gather is better than the average reported for this engine, and runs very smoothly once started.

[peterboat]

I give it near full throttle, and the starter motor absolutely whizzes the engine around. It seems to start in pretty much the same way as the diesel engines I remember being fitted to 1960s cars and vans. I will check the glow plugs next time I'm up, although the last owner did replace them according to the paperwork.

 

I would also tend to suspect the injectors, except that on a 350 mile cruise last year she only averaged 0.7 litres of fuel per engine hour which I gather is better than the average reported for this engine, and runs very smoothly once started.

injectors are a possibility poor pattern causes poor starting but might not increase fuel consumption

[gazza]

I give it near full throttle, and the starter motor absolutely whizzes the engine around. It seems to start in pretty much the same way as the diesel engines I remember being fitted to 1960s cars and vans. I will check the glow plugs next time I'm up, although the last owner did replace them according to the paperwork.

 

I would also tend to suspect the injectors, except that on a 350 mile cruise last year she only averaged 0.7 litres of fuel per engine hour which I gather is better than the average reported for this engine, and runs very smoothly once started.

Be careful pulling the plugs, if it's an early 1.8 the tips are small diameter and easy to break off in the pre combustion chamber, if they feel tight use plenty of plus gas or WD 40 and rotate gently back and forth until they will come free.

 

An 11/64 drill is useful to clean the carbon out of the chamber. Calcutt supply one with their plugs http://calcuttboatsshop.com/epages/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d.mobile/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d/Products/CKGP1.5SO

Edited February 24, 2016 by gazza

[peterboat]

I give it near full throttle, and the starter motor absolutely whizzes the engine around. It seems to start in pretty much the same way as the diesel engines I remember being fitted to 1960s cars and vans. I will check the glow plugs next time I'm up, although the last owner did replace them according to the paperwork.

 

I would also tend to suspect the injectors, except that on a 350 mile cruise last year she only averaged 0.7 litres of fuel per engine hour which I gather is better than the average reported for this engine, and runs very smoothly once started.

the other is check valve clearances, tappets to give it the more common name if they close up they can cause poor starting as well

[Scholar Gypsy]

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RC-2400-K-N-Universal-Chrome-Air-Filter-2-O-S-FLG-5-1-8-OD-2-H-KN-Universal-/291594224175?hash=item43e45ec22f:g:OIcAAOSw9mFWIdgR

 

A proper reusable filter that actually filters

 

This is a cleaning and oiling kit: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/K-N-Recharger-Air-Filter-Cleaning-Kit-Cleaner-and-Oil-/351384325678?hash=item51d0234e2e:m:mD5QNHqTmfIOkuXZn-y0TUA

 

Richard

 

Dear Richard

 

Many thanks - successfully installed yesterday. The cleaning operation looks like it could be quite messy!

 

 

http://www.knfilters.com/cleaning.htm

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2016 by Scholar Gypsy

[RLWP]

That looks the part!

 

Have you stuck the K&N advertising sticker on the side of the boat?

 

Richard

[Scholar Gypsy]

That looks the part!

 

Have you stuck the K&N advertising sticker on the side of the boat?

 

Richard

 

No, I don't think I got one of those. I will check the box next time I am on board. Happy to put one on the bulkhead in the engine room, next to the Morris Oils sticker.

[Theo]

Steam!!, steam's invisible and extremely hot, but of course Tony I know what you mean, more likely water vapor.

With all due respect Mr Bizzard. Water vapour is also invisible (there is lots of it in the air all the time) but not necessarily hot. That which you can see as a white cloudy stuff is mist, made up of water droplets.

 

Nick

[Theo]

 

And at one time I think the MOD vehicles had to be petrol or dual fuel. Certainly our REME training Bedfords had dual fuel injector pumps so they would run on petrol if need be. I understand it was to do with the fear in those days that diesel may not be so easy to come by if it ever became necessary to operate across Eastern Europe.

 

On the fleet the 1.5s were always the worse really cold starters and needed a slow count to 30 on the glow plugs. You can not compare the heating ability of the pin type 1.5 plugs with modern ones, the current draw tells you that. They all tended to smoke a bit for a few minutes after starting but comparing them with modern Jap units is not really fair because computer combustion modelling was not around when the 1.5 was designed. it is also not fair to compare them with modern cars. Most diesel cars nowadays are direct injection that are much better cold starters than indirect with no glow plugs. The glow plugs on modern cars are more to do with noise and pollution when cold than better starting.

And this is why I always preheat my 1.5 with the MIkuni for 10mins before setting off on a winter morning. Starts like after lunch in the summer and saves a lot of thrashing the starter motor.

 

Nick

[wrisberg]

Possibly, although they were replaced not very long ago according to the paperwork I inherited. Testing them is on my to-do list but I rather think that on a freezing day when the engine hadn't been started for seven weeks, that it's pretty much how I would expect a fifty year old diesel engine to behave.

 

Have you tried preheating twice?

 

In the wintertime, when I was working on mine, It always startede right away, if I preheated twice, for like 15 sec on each. I bit harder if I only heated once.

 

Id rather preheat twice, and save some on my starter. It's taking a long run when you crank yours, I think.

Edited May 13, 2016 by wrisberg