b0atman Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I phoned a BSS man and when asked if I live aboard was told that he could not do it. What's this about ? Leisure or live aboard the safety risk is the same . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Probably because he is not qualified to do the more stringent gas test required for dwellings. It may not be anything to do with the BSS as such. It might be the examiner is protecting himself from a potential negligence case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Megson Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 The following extract from the BSS site might explain it. Carrying out 'work on the gas system of boats used for primarily residential purposes fall within scope of a piece of UK legislation known as the Gas Safety [installation and Use] Regulations (GSIUR). As such, anyone contracted to 'work' on the LPG system of a boat in scope must be by law Gas Safe registered. As the definition of 'work' covers the removal and replacement of the nipple on a gas tightness-test point so this law also covers carrying out BSS tightness-test with a manometer. This means that if a boat is in scope of GSIUR and the BSS Examiner is not Gas Safe registered, he or she can only carry out a full BSS Examination if: a bubble tester is fitted and correctly located; or, the examiner observes a Gas Safe registered technician carrying out the tightness-test with a manometer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcoaster Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I has my BSS a couple of months ago and was told when I phoned to book it that due to some very recent change, the guy I called could not do my BSS as a liveaboard. We agreed that I didn't live aboard after all, and proceeded... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacka Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 The following extract from the BSS site might explain it. Carrying out 'work on the gas system of boats used for primarily residential purposes fall within scope of a piece of UK legislation known as the Gas Safety [installation and Use] Regulations (GSIUR). As such, anyone contracted to 'work' on the LPG system of a boat in scope must be by law Gas Safe registered. As the definition of 'work' covers the removal and replacement of the nipple on a gas tightness-test point so this law also covers carrying out BSS tightness-test with a manometer. This means that if a boat is in scope of GSIUR and the BSS Examiner is not Gas Safe registered, he or she can only carry out a full BSS Examination if: a bubble tester is fitted and correctly located; or, the examiner observes a Gas Safe registered technician carrying out the tightness-test with a manometer. All very true, and if you would like a copy of the examiners check list so you can check your boat for obvious concerns you can download it here- http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/268789/ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabcat Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) I has my BSS a couple of months ago and was told when I phoned to book it that due to some very recent change, the guy I called could not do my BSS as a liveaboard. We agreed that I didn't live aboard after all, and proceeded... A triumph for common sense... Edited January 29, 2016 by Sabcat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murflynn Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 it seems to me that if all boats were fitted with a bubble tester then the potential problem would go away. considering the minimal cost it is a no-brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barge Maria Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I has my BSS a couple of months ago and was told when I phoned to book it that due to some very recent change, the guy I called could not do my BSS as a liveaboard. We agreed that I didn't live aboard after all, and proceeded... I agree that this is pragmatic, and most likely what I would have done....but.......if you explode your insurers may not agree when they realise that you live aboard and enquire as to what basis the gas test was carried out! Just a thought. People moored adjacent may not be too happy either when their (and your) claims on your insurer fail. Just saying, like..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottle Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 it seems to me that if all boats were fitted with a bubble tester then the potential problem would go away. considering the minimal cost it is a no-brainer. Bubble tester would be no good on my boat. It,s all electric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 As I understand it its all about opening the gas test point, then closing it up and checking it doesn't leak afterwards. To do that for resi use you have to be GS registered. To do it commercially, that is. IMO if the boat owner is competent to do that simple task, he can do so and leave the BSS bod to actually do the tightness checks. However, with all the protectionist smoke and mirrors surrounding amateur gas work I suspect it might be a bit difficult to convince some BSS bods of this so ultimately it is easier to get a bod who is GS reg for LPG/boats. It is likely to be the same price! Bubble tester would be no good on my boat. It,s all electric. You could fit one to your batteries to see if they were gassing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottle Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You could fit one to your batteries to see if they were gassing... Behave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0atman Posted January 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 The comment about not admitting to be a live aboard raises the question what if you by a boat that has 3 years of BSS left but you have bought it to be a live aboard ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottle Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 You bring it up to standard and get it re-tested. Remember the BSS is only valid for the day it is issued. ie. the boat complies today but may not tomorrow. A bit like the MOT for cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 What is all rather daft is that a leisure boat such as ours is residential for the period we are on it, over 100 days a year. But because we have another home for some reason it's ok to have a lower standard for us than a true live aboard. Doesn't seem very logical. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob@BSSOffice Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 We agreed that I didn't live aboard after all, and proceeded... A point in general pertaining to the phrase above and not specific to anyone on this forum The critical issue is that if challenged in court, would a jury, after weighing up any evidence presented conclude that the boat was or was not used primarily as a place of residence and that, it was or was not, a reasonable judgement expected to be made by the examiner. Anybody assisting him or creating evidence to support or lead the other person breaking the law could also face an interview under caution and potential prosecution as an accessory. We always say to examiners to consider the 12 people sitting on the Clapham omnibus who will be judging the circumstances, especially if the boat blows up after the examination and fairly heavy book starts flying in your direction. It's not just the 3 months in jail andor/ £5k fine per offence, its the after affects on employment, insurance cover, credit rating etc that will extend the misery. Some examinations are not worth it. The Gas Safe Register and HSE are very proactive in pursuing illegal activities. The comment about not admitting to be a live aboard raises the question what if you by a boat that has 3 years of BSS left but you have bought it to be a live aboard ? The BSS certification is not affected and it can run its course to the stated expiry date if the boat is owner occupied i.e. private. But if the boat is to be let, a non-private BSS certificate will likely be needed to support the registration/licence application. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0atman Posted January 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 If it is a more stringent test then it should be the norm . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob@BSSOffice Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 What is all rather daft is that a leisure boat such as ours is residential for the period we are on it, over 100 days a year. But because we have another home for some reason it's ok to have a lower standard for us than a true live aboard. Doesn't seem very logical. It is not a lower standard, it is the same standard. The issue in the OP relates only to, what is to us, a rather frustrating aspect of the law. For the purpose of ascertaining whether a gas system leaks or not i.e. tightness testing, BSS examiners are trained and assessed in the same way, and for many, at the same college gas centre, as Gas Safe registered technicians. Examiners are subject to constant quality control monitoring processes including field assessments and quinquennial re-assessment. Unless they are gas fitters what they do not do and are not trained in is the building and design of LPG systems for boats. This means that the very expensive process to get training, experience, assessment, and re-assessement to meet the competency criteria for Gas Safe registration and paying registration fees, thus becoming a 'Recognised' person is not worthwhile for many examiners. (A huge respect is deserved for all those people that do) Currently there is no limited scope registration criteria i.e. registration/recognition for the undertaking of gas tightness-tests only. And that is why we direct the examiners in the way that we do and state the things that we state on the website as quoted above. But whether you use the boat for high-days and holidays, live aboard it, rent it out or have passengers aboard in a commercial or quasi commercial way - the BSS tightness test is the same - no different standard. You could fit one to your batteries to see if they were gassing... No regulator - the pressure would be different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) Sorry Rob you misunderstood me. I wasn't suggesting that the BSS standard is any different, what is different is that the GSIUR is not applicable to a boat I might live on for 9 moths of the year and then go home, but it is applicable to one I live on for 9 months of the year and then go in search of the sun (on holiday abroad, say) for 3 months and don't have a land based address. Ed: by not applicable, I mean the bit about, effectively, requiring a GS ticket. Edited January 29, 2016 by nicknorman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterboat Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 i have removed the gas from my boat just the rayburn for cooking and heating. made my bss easier and although i fitted gas to cars for a living it makes me a bit happier not having it on board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob@BSSOffice Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 Sorry Rob you misunderstood me. I wasn't suggesting that the BSS standard is any different, what is different is that the GSIUR is not applicable to a boat I might live on for 9 moths of the year and then go home, but it is applicable to one I live on for 9 months of the year and then go in search of the sun (on holiday abroad, say) for 3 months and don't have a land based address. Ed: by not applicable, I mean the bit about, effectively, requiring a GS ticket. Ah yes sorry, please excuse the error. Tony B posted something similar earlier and I also read that as meaning a lower standard. I conflated the two points. Apologies. And yes agreed, regarding risk picture. The BSS has a database of incidents. We don't tag boats as liveaboards, we have a category called Intensive use. We had to pick a reasonable figure out and we say that ny boat used for 3 months or more in a continuous way is something we would class as 'intensively used' - lots of fuel and lots of power consumption with appliances and engines in more use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Ambrose Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 You bring it up to standard and get it re-tested. Remember the BSS is only valid for the day it is issued. ie. the boat complies today but may not tomorrow. A bit like the MOT for cars. And not worth the paper/PDF file it's written on?Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricco1 Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I mostly live aboard but once a week or so I go to my Mum's for tea, and stay over. I guess that's less than 3 months continuous use so someone will actually be prepared to do the test, a test that's compulsory. That's good news, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald Fox Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 I has my BSS a couple of months ago and was told when I phoned to book it that due to some very recent change, the guy I called could not do my BSS as a liveaboard. We agreed that I didn't live aboard after all, and proceeded... Surely everyone 'lives aboard' a boat whilst driving it or sleeping in/on it? We slept on our boat for 9 weeks last Summer - were we 'liveaboards' then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerald Fox Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 What I now wonder is this, that if a gas bottle goes up in flames, how do you get it out of the gas locker in the front of the boat? Or do they just explode leaving your boat with 'no nose'? There could be doors fitted to the front of boats (both sides of gas locker) so that you could open to pull a flaming gas bottle out with a rope (already attached to the bottle) so that it can be dropped in the Cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 (edited) Gas bottles don't just go up in flames, and tend only to explode when they are exposed to a fire caused by something else. However if you ever did have a fire in the gas locker, I suggest that the best way to deal with it is to run away as fast as you can. Edited January 30, 2016 by nicknorman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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