South East Visitor Moorings Consultation - Batchworth, Berkhamsted, Marsworth & Braunston

[valrene9600]

Not 100% but thought that below Stoke B. Locks was two day, just after the water points. Might be wrong but sure I saw the two day and £25 sign.

[cuthound]

Of course our dogs being house trained, it's mater of urgency to moor somewhere for a pee break and a coffee.

 

I think you are spoiling your dogs by giving them coffee breaks. Mine makes do with a bowl of water

[jenlyn]

Not 100% but thought that below Stoke B. Locks was two day, just after the water points. Might be wrong but sure I saw the two day and £25 sign.

According to CRT's map, your correct.

 

It was 7 days, when did south east sub boat group change that?

[alan_fincher]

Not 100% but thought that below Stoke B. Locks was two day, just after the water points. Might be wrong but sure I saw the two day and £25 sign.

 

You are absolutely correct.

 

In a way two of us are correct, despite giving different answers, because it is now 2 days in Summer but relaxed to 7 days in Winter, (as per the map I already posted - and as I already detailed).

 

I suppose for complete accuracy we all need to talk about whether we are talking about the summer stay time, or the winter one!

 

Talking of summer months, then the 7 day moorings at Stoke Bruerne are now in the "long pound" - there are none below the locks in summer, (unless the signs contradict the maps)

[valrene9600]

According to CRT's map, your correct.

 

It was 7 days, when did south east sub boat group change that?

No idea but just looked and it's 7 days in winter.

[valrene9600]

Summer or winter so much signage and £25 threats have now put us off stopping. Losets are the pub and restaurant but I guess they will survive.

Now prefet to moor after candle bridge Blisworth. Short walk up lane to village and peaceful moorings.

[bigcol]

this mooring originally 7 days, reduced to 2 day for summer, then back to 7 days in winter.

 

Up and down the country,

Is it feasible that CRT could have a van, filled with posts and signs, and change mooring limits without the majority of Customers knowing?

 

Col

[adam1uk]

Not 100% but thought that below Stoke B. Locks was two day, just after the water points. Might be wrong but sure I saw the two day and £25 sign.

It changes half way along -- 2 days at the water point end, longer at the far end (I thought 14 days, but apparently 7 days).

[bigcol]

I have to agree with Valrene

 

Last year approaching a busy Stoke bruene,the amount of post signage, and signage on top of signage,

every time I saw a mooring walden I made sure I was where I should be.

 

Which in itself I suppose if other boaters like me and Valrene simply get put off to moor.

CRT,together with their wardens and signs, ITS WORKING

[alan_fincher]

It changes half way along -- 2 days at the water point end, longer at the far end (I thought 14 days, but apparently 7 days).

 

Well this is the map, and it certainly has no 7 days on that part in the summer period.

 

What is not obvious from the map is whether there any viable 14 day space at the Southern end before the largely un-moorable space kicks in.

 

If considering how CRT are now claiming to treat things, you need to refer again to the Short Term Moorings framework which gives a different definition of "Visitor Mooring" and "Casual Mooring"

 

Visitor mooring

 

A length of bank that has been designated for periods of less than 14 days. They tend to be at popular locations and time limits are designed to enable as many different boaters as possible to enjoy the use of the mooring during a cruise.

 

Casual mooring

Mooring up alongside the towpath during the course of a journey. These can be anywhere else along the towpath which is unsigned and where the maximum stay time is 14 days.

 

So if any mooring simply always has a stay time of the default 14 days, then in future it would be classed as a "casual" rather than a "visitor" mooring, and as such would not in future get a sign, (although of course currently there are lots of such moorings that do have a 14 day sign, for historical reasons).

 

Because of this distinction the controlled mooring zone end limits kick in at the point where stay times cease to be restricted beyond the 14 days, and any 14 day bit is not shown on the maps. Even if monitoring or overstay charges apply in the controlled part, they do not in any "casual mooring" part that lies beyond it. The trouble is you can now not see if there is any 14 day "casual" mooring beyond the 2 day "visitor" mooring from the Stoke Bruerne map alone!

 

And before anybody claims any of the above post represents "South East" tinkering, it is actually quite the opposite! The "Framework" has been drafted elsewhere, and is supposed to set a national standard which will then be adhered to in local regions. It is something the South East are supposed to now comply with, but has not come from the South East.

[valrene9600]

Call me what you want but....

I get the feeling that Stoke B. doesn't want boaters stopping. I feel they have the museum, tunnel and trip boat pubs, resident boats etc and all they want is visitors by coach or car. Who exactly "they" are I'm not sure.

Maybe I'm wrong but it's the feeling that makes me keep moving after always looking forward to stopping a few years back.

Edited January 17, 2016 by valrene9600

[alan_fincher]

Losers are the pub and restaurant but I guess they will survive.

 

Anybody who has followed this closely from the outsset, will know that when CRT held their review meeting after the SEVM pilots had run for a while, they said that they had directly approached any likely affected local businesses for their feedback. From memory, I think only 4 replied, two supportive of the new initiative, and two against it! In all honesty, it is very hard for either side of the debate to use such non statistics as good supporting evidence for anything!

[alan_fincher]

Call me what you want but....

I get the feeling that Stoke B. doesn't want boaters stopping. I feel they have the museum, tunnel and trip boat pubs, resident boats etc and all they want is visitors by coach or car. Who exactly "they" ate I'm not sure.

Maybe I'm wrong but it's the feeling that makes me keep moving after always looking forward to stopping a few years back.

I will not call you, anything except Les, unless you want me to!

 

IMO the Stoke Bruerne SEVM mooring changes no more came out of "Stoke Bruerne's" wishes, than did the Foxton ones come out of "Foxton's" wishes. (Probably Thrupp did come out of Thrupp Cruising Club's wishes though! ).

 

The local BW, manager at the time, Jeff Whyatt, got an idea entrenched in his head that this was about the most important thing he needed to deliver for his Region, and it became very hard to convince people otherwise, despite the lack of anything more than "gut feelings" that there was actually a need for it. (Incidentally note I deliberately said BW manager, not CRT manager - this whole thing long pre-dates CRT).

 

Whilst some in Stoke Bruerne may be supportive, (I understand at least one property objects to smoking boat chimneys), I don't think this was the driver, and several people very much local to the area, and with influence, have undoubtedly contributed to the fact that the restrictions are now very much relaxed over where they started off. Unfortunately, the fact that it is now less restricted than it was before they started, (The very popular Long Pound is now 7 days in summer, it was only one day before these changes), has not changed a lot of peoples minds, and far less boats now stop, as you quite rightly suggest. It depends on your point of view if that is a "success" or a "failure". I would still say "failure", but I'm sure Jeff Whyatt would have said "success".

Edited January 17, 2016 by alan_fincher

[jenlyn]

Call me what you want but....

I get the feeling that Stoke B. doesn't want boaters stopping. I feel they have the museum, tunnel and trip boat pubs, resident boats etc and all they want is visitors by coach or car. Who exactly "they" are I'm not sure.

Maybe I'm wrong but it's the feeling that makes me keep moving after always looking forward to stopping a few years back.

I feel the same, and agree with you.

I prefer to trust what I see, hear and feel at stoke bruerne.

There was even one resident moaning because shower water from a boat was going onto the towpath.

[adam1uk]

Well this is the map, and it certainly has no 7 days on that part in the summer period.

What is not obvious from the map is whether there any viable 14 day space at the Southern end before the largely un-moorable space kicks in.

 

That's certainly what that map says. And if you go to this page and download the GU boater's guide, it gives mooring times as 48 hours and 14 days: http://www.waterscape.com/things-to-do/boating/guides

 

Probably all that proves is that one part of CRT doesn't agree with another part.

[bassplayer]

I feel the same, and agree with you.

I prefer to trust what I see, hear and feel at stoke bruerne.

There was even one resident moaning because shower water from a boat was going onto the towpath.

Wasn't me...I prefer a bath....

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Here is a link to the document that was circulated at the SE boating sub-group at the meeting on 30/10/2015. It was provided today following a Freedom of Information request made on 19/1/2016 -

SE Visitor Mooring Report

Edited January 28, 2016 by Allan(nb Albert)

[bigcol]

Thanks for the link.

I just cannot understand why CRT have to keep tinkering with their signs and times limits.

Hasn't mooring places not been working okay?.

They should spend this time and energy into improving and maintaining, making life easier for canal users.

Why try to fix something that isn't broken?

Edited January 28, 2016 by bigcol

[waterworks]

Or perhaps it's to stop those shiny Hudson brass polishers from hogging all the honeyspots in the summer months

I've found that at the most popular moorings in the summer when all the shiny marina boats come out to play, every evening about 6 pm a cachophany of not so silent inboard generators, engines and whining Diesel heaters comes on and ruins the peace and quiet. Why ? Because they are all watching TV, and pinging their dinners in the microwave. I'd rather stay out in the sticks nowadays to be honest.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Here is a link to the document that was circulated at the SE boating sub-group at the meeting on 30/10/2015. It was provided today following a Freedom of Information request made on 19/1/2016 -

SE Visitor Mooring Report

I will not comment on why, after three weeks, this report was made available via a FOIA request rather than being published at the request of a member of the Waterways Partnership boating sub-group.

 

With regard to a second request where the Trust were asked to show how it had complied with the Framework this is the respsponse -

 

Conduct quantitative monitoring of craft that use the mooring and local

area over a length of time, taking into account various factors including

time of day, time of year, weather and other such influencing factors

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Volunteer mooring rangers have gathered boat sightings at Berkhamsted and

Marsworth on most days (weekends and weekends) over a 12 month period.

Sightings have been gathered during morning and afternoons, and in all

weather conditions. This sighting information has been used to produce the

above report to the boaters sub-group.

 

 

Edited January 31, 2016 by Allan(nb Albert)

[jenlyn]

I will not comment on why, after three weeks, this report was made available via a FOIA request rather than being published at the request of a member of the Waterways Partnership boating sub-group.

 

With regard to a second request where the Trust were asked to show how it had complied with the Framework this is the respsponse -

 

 

New year, same trust, same rubbish from them.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

New year, same trust, same rubbish from them.

Actually, I was fibbing just to see if anyone one this forum was still interested in this thread - I guess not.

 

My request was for -

 

1. The monitoring data collected over 18 months at the four locations.

 

2. Any recorded information that details how the monitoring data was used generate the proposals on which you are now consulting.

 

I also asked CaRT to show, when responding to the second part of the request, how it complied with the framework.

 

The Trust failed to provide anything related to the first part of the request.

 

On the second part of the request, CaRT provided, again, the document I have already made available on this thread.

 

With regard to this document complying with the framework CaRT said -

 

Volunteer mooring rangers have gathered boat sightings at Berkhamsted and Marsworth on most days (weekends and weekends) over a 12 month period. Sightings have been gathered during morning and afternoons, and in all weather conditions. This sighting information has been used to produce the above report to the boaters sub-group.

Personally, I remain unconvinced that inclement weather conditions provide evidence of a need to change mooring restrictions ...

 

 

Edited February 1, 2016 by Allan(nb Albert)

[jenlyn]

The picture is becoming a little more clear, especially with regards one area. Social cleansing has been mentioned on several village based Facebook groups.

It looks like some of the email communication's from crt may come onto the internet, so it could get messy.

They never seem to learn.

[sallyb]

I personally am very upset about this, I live near here and spend loads of time on this particular stretch of the Canal and the boats make the place.

However it seems by the comments in the Berkhamstead FB Group that no one knows why officials are making boats an issue and who could of complained saying they are a "nuisance" Hopefully the consultation will not receive support to stop boats mooring up for more than 2 days.

 

http://www.berkhamstedcitizens.org.uk/latest-news/

[b0atman]

Generator noise and diesel fumes so probably a minority have spoilt it yet again. Interesting no mention of smoke from the fires.