South East Visitor Moorings Consultation - Batchworth, Berkhamsted, Marsworth & Braunston

[KroSha]

I don't think CRT are daft enough to actually pursue non payment of a charge under these conditions. The tactic of using threatening signage does work on most boaters. I'm sure it has caused boats to move more.

 

As I've suggested before I think the only legal road one could go down is 'harassment'. The question is whether signage making threats of 'fines' which are not backed up by law is the same as being sent a few letters saying the same? Whether any judge in this country would be interested I don't know.

 

Another question is, why don't we just have signs reminding boaters that it is illegal to moor for more than 14 days? Surely that would help deter CM'ers? The only reason we are seeing signs restricting us to 24 hours, 48 hours, 7 days, is because a few boaters have complained in the past to CRT because they couldn't moor up where and when they want.

 

Is it really worth the money and stress?

 

Sorry for jumping back a dozen posts, but there is exactly this defence pointed out on the K&A boaters community:

http://kanda.boatingcommunity.org.uk/what-to-do-if-crt-tell-you-that-you-have-incurred-a-25-extended-stay-charge/

[jenlyn]

Can you please, for clarity, explain when you say "local partnership" whether you mean the CRT South East Waterways Partnership or the Canal and River Partnership (CARP) that is allied to the local councils, and existed many years ahead of the creation of CRT, and is not directly connected to CRT?

 

I think you probably mean the latter, but I think it is important to avoid any further confusions.

 

The south east waterways partnership is involved with the vm changes, so no need to clarify.

[bigcol]

Hang on hang on

 

These sites were and come under the 14 day rule

And they say they get a lot of comunication from folks who have contacted them to complain they carnt get on any particular mooring.

So they reduce it to 2 days only free.

Where are these letters of complaint, they could be pulling these excuses out of the air!.

who do we ring up, to arrange to view. Who are these people, where's the data to back it all up? Lies!

If CRT continue to reduce 14 day sites to 2 day sites

And they carry out these changes every year.

Contiuing removing 14 day mooring from sites up and down the country.

Anywhere there's a town,village,pub, we only be able to visit for 2 days, unless we pay,yet again.

 

All on the back of hundreds of letters of complaints pilling in day,weekly

How do we see all these letters,emails.

It just away of squeezing more money from boaters.

They are getting away with it, and as long as they do, this will continue.

What was a boaters right, we still have, but in the sticks some where, where it's hard to moor to the bank or very shallow. A long walk from anywhere.

 

How far will they go? they have a lot of work to do, converting 14 days to 2 days

 

A few years to from now, we can all say we saw it coming.

 

 

Col

Edited January 15, 2016 by bigcol

[matty40s]

Boatman is writing as many as he can, as fast as he can.

[Sir Nibble]

The south east waterways partnership is involved with the vm changes, so no need to clarify.

really? I didn't know that. Thank you for the clarification.

[jenlyn]

 

really? I didn't know that. Thank you for the clarification.

John Best (chair of the south east waterways partnership) is also on the south east sub boating group. John Best also chaired the original south east vm work groups through 2013, voicing his support for the changes. (which is well documented, not just in this forum, but right across the internet).

A plum pie and sticky fingers could not be more evident.

[Sir Nibble]

John Best (chair of the south east waterways partnership) is also on the south east sub boating group. John Best also chaired the original south east vm work groups through 2013, voicing his support for the changes. (which is well documented, not just in this forum, but right across the internet).

A plum pie and sticky fingers could not be more evident.

Again, I didn't know that. Thank you for clarifying the issue. Though I'm not sure why you wasted your time doing it, but thank you all the same.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Sir Nibble

[nicknorman]

For those of us living 500 miles away, who is John best exactly?

[jenlyn]

Again, I didn't know that. Thank you for clarifying the issue. Though I'm not sure why you wasted your time doing it, but thank you all the same.

Didn't waste my time, was a good distraction from the chase.

[jenlyn]

For those of us living 500 miles away, who is John best exactly?

Google this site for his name. All the info is on here.

[Sir Nibble]

Didn't waste my time, was a good distraction from the chase.

It is still good of you to provide the clarification for those of us who didn't know about this though. Especially since we really ought to know this.

[adam1uk]

Contiuing removing 14 day mooring from sites up and down the country.

Anywhere there's a town,village,pub, we only be able to visit for 2 days, unless we pay,yet again.

 

Where are these places with ONLY 2 day moorings? In my experience, there's a mix or mooring limits, but I don't remember going anywhere were all the moorings were 2 day. And there are always places with no limit signed at all, which means 14 days.

[bigcol]

converting 14 day to 2 day

They have done this, and will continue to carry out this scheme, as like this original post subject.

Locally From MK they have reduced stay times at what were 14 day moorings. Such as

 

Fenny

Gifford

Black horse

The galleon ?

Cosgrove

Stoke Bruene

 

3 locks above and below

Now Proposed Marsworth

 

Maybe local boaters know of more?

Soon it be bridges

 

Anywhere where boaters like to moor in places.

 

Of course we can make use of the tow path anywhere in between these place, as beautiful as they are

All subject to depth dredging, vegetation, and bank,

 

CRT do like putting up signs, and if they can make money doing it, I can't see them stopping,

 

CRT are only carrying out reducing mooring times, because boaters have complained that there isn't any space at these places

 

Whether I go left or right, within a day I will arrive at moorings that have reduced time limits.

 

If I'm wrong I apologize, and if i left out places be nice to know

 

It's called change

 

 

Col

Edited January 16, 2016 by bigcol

[alan_fincher]

converting 14 day to 2 day

They have done this, and will continue to carry out this scheme, as like this original post subject.

Locally From MK they have reduced stay times at what were 14 day moorings. Such as

 

Fenny

Gifford

Black horse

The galleon ?

Cosgrove

Stoke Bruene

 

3 locks above and below

Now Proposed Marsworth

 

When you say "they" who are "they"?

 

Any mooring restrictions that exist at any of the first 5 on your list......

 

Fenny

Gifford

Black horse

The galleon ?

Cosgrove

 

have absolutely nothing to do with CRT, (or indeed BW for at least several years before one transitioned into the other).

 

All those schemes relate to BW some years ago, when they simply just did it with no consultation whatsoever - that wsaa how it used to work before anybody challenged it!

 

They are not relevant to what has gone on since, where in each case they have had some attempt at a consultation. (Before anybody says there was no consultation at "Three Locks", it is true there was not initially, and they have acknowledged that should not have occurred, but even there one happened at the end of the planned 1 year trial period, before it was made permanent).

 

So lets be clear, that whilst many people are unhappy with what has already been done under CRT auspices, or which it is now proposed to do under CRT auspices, at least now some attempt is made to gain feedback before any of the schemes press ahead.

 

In the case of the original SEVM pilot at Foxton, Stoke Bruerne and Thrupp, CRT claimed that about 50% of responses supported the proposals, (although there was some debate about this!).

 

CRT claim to be reacting to what they think is the best thing, based on feedback received, so it is vitally important that anybody who feels strongly on the subject actually provides their feedback to CRT.

 

CRT will not pay attention to people complaining on here about historic actions of BW or CRT, or even what they are doing now. For anybody to have any chance of their views affecting the final decision they must actually respond to CRT, not just complain about things on the Internet, of course.

 

 

[adam1uk]

converting 14 day to 2 day

They have done this, and will continue to carry out this scheme, as like this original post subject.

Locally From MK they have reduced stay times at what were 14 day moorings. Such as

 

Fenny

Gifford

Black horse

The galleon ?

Cosgrove

Stoke Bruene

 

3 locks above and below

Now Proposed Marsworth

 

There are 14 day moorings at Fenny Stratford.

Giffard Park, I don't recall seeing any signs at all, so you can stay 14 days.

I'm pretty sure the Galleon is 14 days. Even if it's not, you could stop a hundred yard closer to the aqueduct for 14 days.

The Black Horse has 14 days as well as 48 hours

Cosgrove is 14 days below the lock, and there's hundreds of yards of it.

Stoke Bruerne is much discussed, and has 14 days at the bottom of the locks

Even if these proposals for Marsworth go through, there will still be a stretch of 14 days moorings, plus all the bits outside the proposal area which will still be 14 days.

 

I really think you'd struggle to find anywhere along this stretch where you couldn't stay 14 days if you wanted to.

[jenlyn]

 

There are 14 day moorings at Fenny Stratford.

Giffard Park, I don't recall seeing any signs at all, so you can stay 14 days.

I'm pretty sure the Galleon is 14 days. Even if it's not, you could stop a hundred yard closer to the aqueduct for 14 days.

The Black Horse has 14 days as well as 48 hours

Cosgrove is 14 days below the lock, and there's hundreds of yards of it.

Stoke Bruerne is much discussed, and has 14 days at the bottom of the locks

Even if these proposals for Marsworth go through, there will still be a stretch of 14 days moorings, plus all the bits outside the proposal area which will still be 14 days.

 

I really think you'd struggle to find anywhere along this stretch where you couldn't stay 14 days if you wanted to.

You might want to do some checking on your post. Its not all correct.

[adam1uk]

You might want to do some checking on your post. Its not all correct.

 

Well I'm working from memory, backed up by the boater's downloadable guide. Which bit isn't correct?

[bigcol]

There are 14 day moorings at Fenny Stratford.

Giffard Park, I don't recall seeing any signs at all, so you can stay 14 days.

I'm pretty sure the Galleon is 14 days. Even if it's not, you could stop a hundred yard closer to the aqueduct for 14 days.

The Black Horse has 14 days as well as 48 hours

Cosgrove is 14 days below the lock, and there's hundreds of yards of it.

Stoke Bruerne is much discussed, and has 14 days at the bottom of the locks

Even if these proposals for Marsworth go through, there will still be a stretch of 14 days moorings, plus all the bits outside the proposal area which will still be 14 days.

 

I really think you'd struggle to find anywhere along this stretch where you couldn't stay 14 days if you wanted to

 

Outside the area where is closest to the site. Admediate areas have reduced mooring times, which is the point I'm making, changing mooring limits.

Galleon has got 2 day sign opposite the pub, I know this because I moved on under the bridge after the 2 days was up.

Same with Gifford park 7 day notice on post, I know this because I was reminded of it, but reverts to 14 days

Back towards the towpath resident vandal.

Cosgrove this year was 7 days, 7 days between lock and bridge, 14 days more towards the aqueduct, which is shallow,

The three locks are 2 days near the lock above and below, outside this area it becomes 14 days

last year the 2 day moorings had plenty of spaces, as again I moved along after the 3 days onto 14 day.

I did overstay by one night, never got charged any extra

I did stay again on my return journey

 

If of course it's true as CRT states, that people are complaining, because they can not moor near to the place,

then maybe you might point out why is it that CRT have carried out these actions already, and the current proposals as per the post in the first place.

 

And it will continue, because one day they will be able to charge, where once they couldn't

 

All the best

 

Col

[jenlyn]

 

Well I'm working from memory, backed up by the boater's downloadable guide. Which bit isn't correct?

Giffard has some 7 day. The moorings below stoke bruerne locks are 7 day. What I would call black horse is 48hr.

[bigcol]

Sorry duplicated post

Edited January 16, 2016 by bigcol

[jenlyn]

 

If of course it's true as CRT states, that people are complaining, because they can not moor near to the place,

then maybe you might point out why is it that CRT have carried out these actions already, and the current proposals as per the post in the first place.

 

And it will continue, because one day they will be able to charge, where once they couldn't

 

All the best

 

Col

I suspect as happened last time Crt tried this, they have had no complaints, other than from James Griffin.

During the workshops, he constantly stated that his "hirers" were complaining of nowhere to moor. He had no evidence to back this, and I would say certainly has none this time around. He also stated "80% of boat use in Milton Keynes were his hire boats". (A bit of hypocrisy there somewhere).

As you stated, last year, a lot of these moorings were largely empty.

[alan_fincher]

Actually nobody is I think correct in the previous few posts about stay times at Stoke Bruerne, I think?

 

The map is here

 

In summer the Museum Green to Tunnel Pound. and South of the service are at the Bottom Lock are 2 days.

 

It is the "Long Pound" below the top two,locks where 7 days are allowed in Summer<(and that used to be 1 day before the SEVM changes, don't forget!)

 

If BigCol wants longer stay times, then the 2 day moorings relax to 7 days in the Winter months, and the 7 day ones in the long pound then permit a full 14 days.

 

There is nowhere I know of that only has 2 day moorings, with no availability of longer stay close by, and none of the new propsals attempt to do that either.

I think when debating this it is important to stick to verifiable facts, whatever your personal views on the subject.

[NigelMoore]

14 days per month is more reasonable, but I still object to the principle; CaRT have no power to set such limits. As with so many of their policies, it goes above and beyond their statutory powers.

 

To give everyone the legislative background at first hand, I attach the actual discussion over BW’s request for the powers to limit moorings at popular places, and to erect the relevant signage –

 

 

These were the clauses that were not allowed [principally because Parliament objected - not to the setting of such limits, but - to making criminals out of boaters in circumstances where the existing powers of control were considered sufficient] and did not survive passage of the Bill into law.

 

[jenlyn]

Actually nobody is I think correct in the previous few posts about stay times at Stoke Bruerne, I think?

 

The map is here

 

In summer the Museum Green to Tunnel Pound. and South of the service are at the Bottom Lock are 2 days.

 

It is the "Long Pound" below the top two,locks where 7 days are allowed in Summer<(and that used to be 1 day before the SEVM changes, don't forget!)

 

If BigCol wants longer stay times, then the 2 day moorings relax to 7 days in the Winter months, and the 7 day ones in the long pound then permit a full 14 days.

 

There is nowhere I know of that only has 2 day moorings, with no availability of longer stay close by, and none of the new propsals attempt to do that either.

 

I think when debating this it is important to stick to verifiable facts, whatever your personal views on the subject.

I think you should stick to your own suggestion of "I think when debating this it is important to stick to verifiable facts, whatever your personal views on the subject".

Adam was stating below the locks at stoke bruerne, I did not notice any remark about in between the locks.

Below the locks at stoke bruerne is 7 days.

 

This statement below, rather shows your not allowing for the inability to moor outside of the 2 day zones, because of bank erosion, or lack of depth.

"There is nowhere I know of that only has 2 day moorings, with no availability of longer stay close by, and none of the new propsals attempt to do that either."

Whenever your group or CRT consider these changes, thought and data, should be gathered, and used to value depth and bank suitability etc.

It's no good just saying "oh that's 14 day mooring there", when a boat can't even get on it.

[bigcol]

Quote Jenlyn

Whenever your group or CRT consider these changes, thought and data, should be gathered, and used to value depth and bank suitability etc.

It's no good just saying "oh that's 14 day mooring there", when a boat can't even get on it.

 

 

Agreed, lot of the time In between places we've tried to moor, no bank, vegetation or no depth.

So carry on to more known used places.

Of course our dogs being house trained, it's mater of urgency to moor somewhere for a pee break and a coffee.

 

we've discovered lovely places and enjoyed our times on the canal.and have met some great people.

We love the canal, just wish that CRT could spend more time, money and energy on the canal. i.e. Vegetation, And dredging.

Instead of in tinkering with mooring time limits, winter moorings and boaters licenses etc ...

Everyday every time we take the boat out, we see and experience situations that require canal maintenance.