With the recent drownings. Safety ladders why not?

[Snufkin]

hello bigcol - how long is the ladder, please?

[magpie patrick]

When I fell in the River Avon around 5 years ago I couldn't get out - Juno has no obvious way of climbing back on board, with high gunnels only the outboard well would have offered an escape route and with the cockpit seat in position that wasn't going to be easy. I found out the hard way that the river in Bath city centre is dredged to 12 feet right to the edge. I got out by climbing up the ruder skeg and tiller of a narrow boat, greeting the slightly surprised owner on the back deck!

 

That said the real weakness there was that one couldn't get out of the river, at that time there had been three drownings in 12 months, and unbeknown to me a fourth was in the river when I was, he was found on Weston Sluices a week later. None of these had fallen off boats.

 

Juno now has an emergency ladder that can be released from within the water. That said, on a canal I'd get out onto the bank, and if I fell off my boat on a river, underway and unaccompanied, I think I'd be trying to get away from the boat. Juno was moored when I fell in.

[bigcol]

hello bigcol - how long is the ladder, please?

Hi there Snufkin

 

I will measure the lenght tomorrow for you, I guess 6ft poss 7ft.

My boat draft is 28 inches, then the 3ft out the water freeboard.

 

 

 

Col

Edited December 29, 2015 by bigcol

[ditchcrawler]

Yep!! Not a fitted one, yes have alliminum normal ladder, sits drags on the bottom, secured by a rope on cleat.

 

So now moored up home mooring deployed.

When I moor up anywhere it's deployed

And when were traveling sometimes we leave it out. Don't go anywhere near prop, but sometimes when levels low it drags. I always have the option of bring it back on the back, but always try to have it out,

And have used it, 3 times on purpose. For me who is unfit compared to many, I can get in or out easily.

 

I'm glad you asked the question

 

Thankyou

 

Col

Photo shows the ladder sitting on the bottom

 

Edited apologies

Thanks for posting the photo.

[MtB]

When I fell in the River Avon around 5 years ago I couldn't get out - Juno has no obvious way of climbing back on board, with high gunnels only the outboard well would have offered an escape route and with the cockpit seat in position that wasn't going to be easy. I found out the hard way that the river in Bath city centre is dredged to 12 feet right to the edge. I got out by climbing up the ruder skeg and tiller of a narrow boat, greeting the slightly surprised owner on the back deck!

 

That said the real weakness there was that one couldn't get out of the river, at that time there had been three drownings in 12 months, and unbeknown to me a fourth was in the river when I was, he was found on Weston Sluices a week later. None of these had fallen off boats.

 

Juno now has an emergency ladder that can be released from within the water. That said, on a canal I'd get out onto the bank, and if I fell off my boat on a river, underway and unaccompanied, I think I'd be trying to get away from the boat. Juno was moored when I fell in.

 

 

I'd like one of these too. What exactly is it, and where did you get it please?

 

Thanks...

[tidal]

I like Col's ladder especially given the counter shape and height

And I am interested in MPs emergency ladder on Juno as well
Are there any pictures of the latter?

 

Anything and everything posted might give fellow boaters ideas about how they could adapt or develop solutions that would work on their own boats.

 

My mate wandered down to his boat last week with an electricians telescopic ladder (2.5m) with a view to seeing if it can be "fettled" to provide a pull-down ladder for someone in the water
If he gets past the planning stage I'll post pics

[rustydiver]

My boat came with an aluminium ladder about 6 ft long with a metal clip on cover board so it can be used as a hand plank. If the emergency rises the plank just pops off and I could sink the leader into the water.

Not to sure how easy it would be it might just want to float. Will have to give it a try next time I'm there.

Saves me throwing one off my children in now to try it, I've just googled it on here's a man showing it

And the ladder

https://www.miracleleisureproducts.co.uk/rescue-ladder.html

Edited December 29, 2015 by rustydiver

[bigcol]

Hi Snufkin. Just measured the ladder 6ft 6, 2 mtrs

 

Col

[raymondh]

If you google "boat boarding ladder" and look in images there are 100's of examples of reboarding ladders to view and get some ideas from

Ray

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=boat+boarding+ladder&safe=strict&biw=1366&bih=659&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiIiuuT7YDKAhWJnBoKHcyLBqEQ_AUIBygC

Edited December 29, 2015 by raymondh

[MtB]

Thanks for the link, but I couldn't see any on narrowboats.

[bigcol]

The thing to remember, for us older folks the problem when in the canal, is getting on the first step. The lower it is, as in at the bottom it's a easy step up out of the canal. Whether along side boat, or ladder against the side of the canal.

 

The ones that you can buy, coastal boats as in swim ladders don't go down far enough, for us oldies.

To be fair having looked at the link re boarding ladders, as long as it's 6ft plus, so if need be it can reach low down to where you feet would be.

 

The ladder I bought can be used to get on or off boat when on the land, when blacking

Be used against boat, or against canal side.

Or taken easily to perhaps where the casualty is.

 

And bought from DIY store, perhaps got one at home, cut old one down to size.

 

Or when your boat is out next, weld steps onto your rudder one at the bottom, in between, one on the top edge, then handles further up near your back deck.

 

A suggestion that may,could save your or someone's life.

And if you need to do maintenance on the boat, you have way to get in and out easily.

 

Col

Edited December 29, 2015 by bigcol

[George94]

So how many recent drownings have there been recently?

 

Sadly, nobody keeps a record. But when I was on the K&A I was told that four people had died like that in the recent past, which I took to mean a year or two.

 

ETA: Sorry, misinformation. Somebody does keep a record of drownings (see below). I was referring to the fact that I don't believe CART keeps records of the causes of death on its waterways.

 

I might be wrong there too. No doubt all will be revealed if I am.

Edited December 29, 2015 by George94

[bigcol]

There was a drowning near here just maybe 2 months ago

Rodger done some work for boatshopuk lidslade

nice guy fell in near his boat, found in the canal.

 

 

Col

[bigcol]

There are facts and figures re canal drownings, google it

 

 

New UK Figures Reveal 381 Drowning and Other Water-Related Deaths in 2013

Posted on 04/07/2014 by davidwalkerj

There were a total of 381 drownings and water-related deaths from accidents or natural causes across the UK in 2013, according to a report published today by the National Water Safety Forum (NWSF).

 

As in previous years, more than half of the deaths (227) in 2013 were in inland waters, such as tidal and freshwater rivers, lakes and reservoirs, while fatalities at the sea, on the beach or shoreline accounted for nearly a third (115). A further 22 deaths happened at harbours, docks, marinas and inland or coastal ports. Eight deaths occurred in the bath and six in swimming pools, while three happened in areas that are not normally watercourses such as marsh and flooded land.

 

The figures, which are published by the NWSF, include deaths in water that resulted from natural causes such as a heart attack, drowning or other fatal injuries resulting from falls into water and those that occurred during the course of water-based activities.

 

 

The peak summer months of July and August witnessed the most deaths with 106 during this period. The leading activities were: people walking alongside water and falling in, swimming (predominantly in open water), and jumping into open water.

 

There were 260 deaths in England, 56 in Scotland, 41 in Wales and 11 in Northern Ireland. In England, the South West (53) and the South East (50) regions had the highest number of deaths. The full UK regional breakdown is as follows:

 

Scotland (56)

South West (53)

South East (50)

Wales (41)

North West (39)

Eastern (36)

Yorkshire and the Humber (20)

West Midlands (20)

London (16)

East Midlands (14)

North East (12)

Northern Ireland (11)

At sea (7)

Isle of Man (3).

Edited December 29, 2015 by bigcol

[George94]

I don't understand why the scrapping of the BSS would save people from drowning?

 

I do catch your drift in terms of safety around the boat and getting out if you fall in. We have a gang plank on the boat that will also double as a ladder of sorts.

 

An idea I have mused over before is a short rope with a loop large enough for a foot to go through at one end and a loop at the other to go over T stud at the fore end or over the mooring bollard at the other. The loop can dangle in the water for a foot or 18ins or so below the water so when you fall in you can get your foot in and use the boat and the boat side to pull yourself out.

 

It wouldn't.

 

Let me clarify. I meant that the lives saved by enabling people to get out of the water easily might well outweigh those who died if there were no BSS.

 

I could have expressed myself better. Apologies.

 

Another way of looking at it is that we have devised an enormously complex and expensive system that probably saves fewer lives than installing boarding ladders on boats.

[Mike Todd]

My boat came with an aluminium ladder about 6 ft long with a metal clip on cover board so it can be used as a hand plank. If the emergency rises the plank just pops off and I could sink the leader into the water.

Not to sure how easy it would be it might just want to float. Will have to give it a try next time I'm there.

Saves me throwing one off my children in now to try it, I've just googled it on here's a man showing it

And the ladder

https://www.miracleleisureproducts.co.uk/rescue-ladder.html

After my recent experience I bought exactly that! I hope not to have to use it.

[magpie patrick]

 

 

I'd like one of these too. What exactly is it, and where did you get it please?

 

Thanks...

 

Not the exact model, but it looks and works like these

 

The thing to remember, for us older folks the problem when in the canal, is getting on the first step. The lower it is, as in at the bottom it's a easy step up out of the canal. Whether along side boat, or ladder against the side of the canal.

 

This was my problem when I was in the Avon, (I'm not that old btw I was 44 at the time) - I could reach the fence on the riverside path but my feet had nothing to climb on and my arms alone weren't enough. The skeg on the narrow boat, coupled with the tiller/swans neck, allowed me to climb out.

[Sea Dog]

Well, that photo certainly shows that it works to allow a dry fat bloke to reverse himself into 3'6" depth of water. Anyone got a photo of the same bloke, wet through in winter gear and wellies, getting himself out of 5' plus depth of water with it? Good idea, nice start, maybe the best thing on the market, but not necessarily quite the 'miracle' its name suggests perhaps?

[Joe the plumber]

Having had a volunteer lock keeper fall off our hire boat into the centre pound at Foxton last September, and thus seeing just how difficult it actually is to get out of the water with the added weight of wet clothes, we have an 8' aluminium ladder on board and all wear automatic life jackets when we're cruising (very small and unobtrusive).

 

These are the items:

 

http://www.hewittladders.co.uk/ladders/Single-Class-1-Ladders/2-5Mt-Class-1-Single-Ladder

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Crewsaver-Crewfit-165N-Lifejacket-Auto-Red-/361257411900?hash=item541c9ea53c:g:7iIAAOSwEeFVGllq

[W+T]

You know after reading this thread i am shocked that it seems such a big thing about these ladders, i would of thought being NB`ers who like to be safe, well i thought so, and ease of fettling things and easy to get into trouble on the cut more folk would have them being the elder folk also.

 

I bet 99% of you were a seat belt though.

 

for what its cost is, why not al all?

[magpie patrick]

You know after reading this thread i am shocked that it seems such a big thing about these ladders, i would of thought being NB`ers who like to be safe, well i thought so, and ease of fettling things and easy to get into trouble on the cut more folk would have them being the elder folk also.

 

I bet 99% of you were a seat belt though.

 

for what its cost is, why not al all?

 

If seatbelts were an optional extra when buying a car, and it wasn't compulsory to wear one, how many would not bother?

 

I'm slightly shocked at two things

 

1) how many people think a big, cumbersome ladder on a narrow boat is a good idea (it's even less of a good idea on a 23 foot cruiser)

 

2) how many people don't seem to have thought about getting that ladder into the water when there is no one on the boat.

 

When I fell in I wasn't wearing a life jacket because I was moored up and getting off to go to a shop, I was alone because we were moored near home and Val had gone there for the night. We'd had life jackets on and one of us on board at all points up the river - it's often the casual, unplanned situation that catches you out.

[W+T]

 

If seatbelts were an optional extra when buying a car, and it wasn't compulsory to wear one, how many would not bother?

 

I'm slightly shocked at two things

 

1) how many people think a big, cumbersome ladder on a narrow boat is a good idea (it's even less of a good idea on a 23 foot cruiser)

 

2) how many people don't seem to have thought about getting that ladder into the water when there is no one on the boat.

 

When I fell in I wasn't wearing a life jacket because I was moored up and getting off to go to a shop, I was alone because we were moored near home and Val had gone there for the night. We'd had life jackets on and one of us on board at all points up the river - it's often the casual, unplanned situation that catches you out.

 

Its about your own safety and life, when i first drove vehicles for maybe even 10 years i didnt wear a seatbelt, my choice not laws decided that like a lot of folk who dont wear them.

 

A 6 foot ladder is not exactly cumbersome to store on the roof or a foldable one at that.

 

If nobody is on the boat then why would you need it and when there is it is the thought will come to the folk who are bothered for there own safety and other users of the boat. Bigcol manages it easy enough...

[Sea Dog]

 

A 6 foot ladder is not exactly cumbersome to store on the roof or a foldable one at that.

 

If nobody is on the boat then why would you need it and when there is it is the thought will come to the folk who are bothered for there own safety and other users of the boat. Bigcol manages it easy enough...

 

I think you're missing the point. If you're single handed, there's no-one on the boat if you fall off it. The fact that there's a 6 foot ladder on your roof is then little comfort if your in the canal.

 

 

Edited to add that I do see the advantages: it just doesn't work everywhere or for everyone.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Sea Dog

[magpie patrick]

I think you're missing the point. If you're single handed, there's no-one on the boat if you fall off it. The fact that there's a 6 foot ladder on your roof is then little comfort if your in the canal.

 

 

Edited to add that I do see the advantages: it just doesn't work everywhere or for everyone.

 

 

Thank you, that was the point I was trying to make!

 

 

 

Its about your own safety and life, when i first drove vehicles for maybe even 10 years i didnt wear a seatbelt, my choice not laws decided that like a lot of folk who dont wear them.

 

A 6 foot ladder is not exactly cumbersome to store on the roof or a foldable one at that.

 

If nobody is on the boat then why would you need it and when there is it is the thought will come to the folk who are bothered for there own safety and other users of the boat. Bigcol manages it easy enough...

 

I think your first point reinforces mine - although with seatbelts what has happened is the law has made it such that use of belts is habitual

 

Your last point, Sea Dog has dealt with it.

 

So long as people agree that 49 is not advancing years then I am not "getting on" - I'm physically fit and quite agile, but I'd still rather not lug a ladder round. Admittedly I would probably find it easier to get up a rope ladder than many.

 

My boat has a rope ladder - after my experience I wouldn't go on a river or a deep canal without it. The rope ladder can be in place all day and all night waiting to be needed - sods law says the aluminium ladder will be on the roof when I need it because I was moored for the night and it didn't seem worth getting it out and fixing it in place, after all, I wasn't even planning to get off until I ran out of milk...

 

Being in a river you can't get out of, in the dark with no one around is a very frightening place to be, those who want rigid ladders on the roof of their boat are welcome to them, I'll have mine where I can reach it from the water.

[W+T]

i think some are missed my point, its the boat handlers choice to have a ladder of some sorts on the boat for safety reason, not any thing difficult to undserstand or rocket science your choice to have one or not. Same as with life jackets

 

Its no debate just a fact.

 

Its that i am surprised that the majority dont bother with either, if any kind of safety while on canals.