AC Onboard 'Generator'

[JamesMW]

Hi All,

 

I have been lurking for some time now - last week I placed the deposit on my new (to me) floating home which will be transported and craned into the Grand Union near Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire on or around the 1st December.

 

When I first enquired about the boat I noticed on the brochure that there was an onboard AC 'Generator' fitted - it seemed like a perfect solution for a liveaboard vessel as my experience of Inverters (mainly fairly inexpensive modified-sine wave jobs in 'RV' type set ups has found them to be quite underwhelming)

 

Upon further investigation when I went to see the boat the generator was not as I first thought, and is something that I have never seen or heard of before apart from in industrial applications. I wondered whether anyone here had experience of a similar set up:

 

Essentially, instead of a standard wall mounted inverter or diesel/propane powered onboard generator it has what appears to be a small M-G set; A permanent magnet DC motor driven from the 12V battery bank directly coupled (with a small flywheel) to a 230V AC Generator unit.

 

The boat has 4 very large domestic batteries and a starter battery on a split charge system. The 'generator' spins up as soon as demand is placed on it from the cabin by switching something on. It's very quiet and appears to handle at least 1000w without much trouble, but I cannot see any specifications for it at all on the body of the unit, which is mounted in the engine bay.

 

There are also two very large alternators fitted to the Beta Marine engine.

 

I'm afraid I haven't got any pictures at this stage but I will endeavour to grab some on Thursday when I go to meet the surveyor.

 

• How efficient is this set up likely to be? I can see it being a big drain on the batteries.
• Has anyone lived with or experienced one of these before?

All the Best,

James

 

 

[pearley]

Like this?

 

http://store.phonetx.com/32082000.html

 

Redline AC generators used to be advertised in the waterways press a lotvat one time.

Edited November 13, 2015 by pearley

[Keith M]

I have not seen the unit you are describing

 

So time a go was something similar Called a REDILINE [ not sure if that is the correct spelling]

 

Not very efficient around 60%

 

pictures will be good

 

Keith

[Tony Brooks]

I expect you are correct about the two alternators being just that but there is a chance that one is a Travel Power mains generator. Check to see if one has a large "umbilical" cord running to a largish metal box.

 

If it is a Redline rotary inverter it has been misdescribed as a generator. See what Keith said about efficiency, best bin it and get an inverter at least you will get better than 80% efficiency most of the time. There is no way such a thing can be used for battery charging unless the owner wants to ruin the battery bank - it will end up very flat!

Edited November 13, 2015 by Tony Brooks

[JamesMW]

Hi All,

 

Pearley - that is exactly what it looks like from the outside, although I am not sure that it is a 'REDI-LINE' unit. I figured that it might not be very efficient.

 

Do you think that it would be worthwhile replacing this unit with a more efficient modern inverter? I'm going to be continuously cruising until at least next June and whilst I can manage with 12V for most things it would be nice to be able to install a small washing machine rated for around 1800W.

 

All the Best,

James

[Flyboy]

Rotary converters are nowhere near as efficient as an inverter.

[JamesMW]

Hi Everyone ,

 

Many thanks for the advice. I was looking at removing it and replacing it with a more modern inverter.

 

I don't have anything that needs to run over about 2000W (I dislike microwaves so that is going - It's only a washing machine I would like to keep). If available a 3000W constant inverter with a slightly higher peak power would be ideal. Prices seem to vary wildly between the likes of Victron and those advertised on eBay and the like such as this one:

 

Inverter

 

Can anybody suggest a middle ground to replace this antiquated rotary job with?

With Kind Regards,

James

[Keith M]

I would always recommend either Mastervolt or Victron

 

Both company's have service centres

 

If you are looking for 3000 watts I would suggest that the battery bank will need some upgrading or replacement plus some form of battery monitor

 

Keith

[ditchcrawler]

I have not seen the unit you are describing

 

So time a go was something similar Called a REDILINE [ not sure if that is the correct spelling]

 

Not very efficient around 60%

 

pictures will be good

 

Keith

That was on a good day, also the output voltage was not very stable. If the engine running and the batteries well up the vacuum cleaner was on turbo drive.

[bottle]

Hi James and welcome

 

Your link actually shows an inverter, charger more commonly known as a 'combi'

 

Do you need both?

 

 

Running a washing machine and using the inbuilt heater is a no, no from just batteries. Unless you have a very large battery bank and the means to re-charge it.

 

You may get away with it if you pre-fill with 'hot' water but even then it would be prudent to either run the engine or a generator to run the washing machine.

[JamesMW]

Hi bottle,

 

You're correct - I don't need both. There is a charging system already on the boat and I will not be using shore power - not for a while yet anyway.

 

I had completely forgotten that washing machines had electric immersions in them.

 

My plan would be to only use the washing machine with the engine running - but I suppose that depends on the alternator that is fitted and whether this second alternator is a 'Travel Power' generator as previously suggested by Tony Brooks.

 

I think I really need to go away and take a proper look at what is already fitted on the boat. It's being pulled out of the water this coming Thursday for a survey and I'm going to go up to discuss with the surveyor, although I do not expect there to be any structural issues as it was only out for blacking with the BSS certificate done at the same time in May this year.

 

I'll work out exactly what the capacity of the bank is and also what the current output of the 12V alternator is at the same time.

 

I really don't want to get in to a position where I could ruin my batteries for the sake of having a standard domestic washing machine on board. Perhaps one of these twin tub jobs would be a better option!

 

Thanks again to all for your advice - much appreciated.

All the Best,

James

[ditchcrawler]

Hi bottle,

 

You're correct - I don't need both. There is a charging system already on the boat and I will not be using shore power - not for a while yet anyway.

 

I had completely forgotten that washing machines had electric immersions in them.

 

My plan would be to only use the washing machine with the engine running - but I suppose that depends on the alternator that is fitted and whether this second alternator is a 'Travel Power' generator as previously suggested by Tony Brooks.

 

I think I really need to go away and take a proper look at what is already fitted on the boat. It's being pulled out of the water this coming Thursday for a survey and I'm going to go up to discuss with the surveyor, although I do not expect there to be any structural issues as it was only out for blacking with the BSS certificate done at the same time in May this year.

 

I'll work out exactly what the capacity of the bank is and also what the current output of the 12V alternator is at the same time.

 

I really don't want to get in to a position where I could ruin my batteries for the sake of having a standard domestic washing machine on board. Perhaps one of these twin tub jobs would be a better option!

 

Thanks again to all for your advice - much appreciated.

 

All the Best,

 

James

Possibly your surveyor would be able to advise what the unit is.

[Richard10002]

Washing tends to be done at much lower temperatures these days and, for many clothes, I wonder if cold water would be fine. I would definitely be running the engine if using the inverter to run the washer, including heating the water a bit.

 

Even with a 2500W inverter, (charger), I run the engine when using the hoover, or anything else with a power need greater than a laptop charger or similar.

[bottle]

The surveyor will confirm for you but my guess is that the two alternators are the standard configuration of Beta and one is for the start battery (small, as in size and amp output) and the other is for the domestic batteries (larger as in size and amp output).

We run our washer dryer on-board but we do have a 7Kw generator.

 

The only time we connect to a shoreline is when the boat is having work done in a boatyard.

[Sea Dog]

I think I really need to go away and take a proper look at what is already fitted on the boat.

You really should have done that before you put down a deposit James. I guess you're beginning to realise that already, but it's worth reiterating for those who read this forum before buying themselves. Sorry to appear negative; I wish you well with your boat.

[Theo]

Hi bottle,

 

You're correct - I don't need both. There is a charging system already on the boat and I will not be using shore power - not for a while yet anyway.

 

I had completely forgotten that washing machines had electric immersions in them.

 

My plan would be to only use the washing machine with the engine running - but I suppose that depends on the alternator that is fitted and whether this second alternator is a 'Travel Power' generator as previously suggested by Tony Brooks.

 

I think I really need to go away and take a proper look at what is already fitted on the boat. It's being pulled out of the water this coming Thursday for a survey and I'm going to go up to discuss with the surveyor, although I do not expect there to be any structural issues as it was only out for blacking with the BSS certificate done at the same time in May this year.

 

I'll work out exactly what the capacity of the bank is and also what the current output of the 12V alternator is at the same time.

 

I really don't want to get in to a position where I could ruin my batteries for the sake of having a standard domestic washing machine on board. Perhaps one of these twin tub jobs would be a better option!

 

Thanks again to all for your advice - much appreciated.

 

All the Best,

 

James

Use an automatic front loader but set up a mixer to give it a hot fill for wash, then after ten mnutes turn the mixer down to cold for the rest of the time. You will need to set the was programme for a temperature below that of the hot fill then it won't heat the water.

 

Lots of different threads on washing machines.

 

N

[OldGoat]

FWIW - we have a small 'manual' twin tub - as seen on Amazon, Midland Chandlers etc.

Doesn't heat the water,

copes well with shorts and 'smalls'

The spin dry struggles a bit with jeans.

uses very little water

 

Takes very little power - runs well on our 300W inverter