Are Boaters really Green?

[Keeping Up]

If there was a return to mass transportation of goods on the waterways then it wouldn't clog up the waterways a little! And read the 'what time do I turn the genny off' thread for peoples attitude to night time disruption.

 

Small scale freight haulage that would only 'clog up the waterways a little' is a drop in the ocean regarding global climate change.

I agree with your comments on scale Carl, but am I unusual in saying that whereas having someone else's engine/genny running a few feet away from me and filling my boat with noise and fumes is a serious annoyance, the passage of night-time freight wouldn't upset me at all.

[Bobphilips]

Not on narrowboats then!

 

The most energy efficient method ever devised for moving goods is pulling a boat with a horse. Can't see it coming back though. Mind you, with our governments current guilt trip attitude to energy consumption, you never know...

 

Nope it's on KD Marine's 1000 ton deadweight inland waterways vessel Anna D which traverses the Manchester Ship Canal.

[carlt]

Might seem just a drop in the ocean but many drops make a puddle and so on... Not an excuse to say my little action/inaction does not have on impact on a greater scale. Otherwise we might as well all throw litter on the street as someone is employed to come and pick it up and it is only a little piece of litter.

But you have to weigh that 'drop' against the other effects it would have on the environment. Especially when we have to live in it.

[Bobphilips]

But you have to weigh that 'drop' against the other effects it would have on the environment. Especially when we have to live in it.

 

Very true. I agree that if the government turned around tomorrow and pushed lots of commercial traffic straight onto the waterways it would not work well. But this would have to be a concerted and well planned effort to help develop the waterways further. Enhancing the capacity to accommodate both leisure, live-a-board and commercial usage of the waterways. I would hazard a guess that the kind of commercial traffic that would see an advantage of transporting by waterway over road would be slow bulk items. This would more likely involve fewer journeys. In other words we would not see endless barges filled with sandwiches being transported from Scotland to London by supermarkets (something I have seen done on the roads).

[Theo]

--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Annie B @ Mar 29 2007, 12:03 PM) 118589[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hi guys I've been reading your thread about your lifestyles and being sustainable.. I'm quite new to the forum, I live in a house four days a week and the rest of the time with my partner on his boat Annie Too in Oxford and try to live as low impact lifestyle as I can.. I am very interested in the topic of how green the boating lifestyle is as I'm studying Renewable Energy (technology and sustainability) at Reading Uni.

 

This summer my MSc thesis is going to be on finding out what boaters use to power their boats / appliances and how they heat their space and water with a view to producing a guide to help refine and get the most out of your systems. I believe it'll come down to batteries and their effective use (or not!) though. I will be creating a questionnaire / survey as I'll need to find out where the bugs and whistles are with your systems and find out what appliances you use that may help (like the lovely Eco fan we have on our burner!) Keep the topic alive, I'll find out how much CO2 a bag of coal emits, i have the figures buried in one of my files somewhere.. all the best to you all and I'll be keeping an eye on the topic. If any of you are up for a chat or a visit over the summer to talk with me in more detail about your issues all will help - oh and if there was a guide ( to be produced after the body of research), what kind of guide would you like? A haynes manual type? a booklet, a do's and don't.. lists of services etc.. all this info would be of great help to me in shaping what to produce, ultimatley its for you guys!

 

All the best, Annie B

 

N.B if any of you know of any DIY guides, help manuals etc could you let me know, there is so little on the topic for Canal boaters and I have access to vast databases, I keep drawing a blank, can't believe there is so little.. thanks again. tararabit..

 

Have alook in the latest copy of Waterways World. You should be able to find lots of grist for your mill in the advertisments and there are likely to be advertisements for "The Narrowboat Owners' Handbook" and "The Narrowboat Buiders' Handbook". Also have a trawl through the Boats --> Buiding and Maintenance and the Boating --> Equipment subfora.

 

HTH

 

Nick

Edited March 29, 2007 by Theo

[carlt]

I agree with your comments on scale Carl, but am I unusual in saying that whereas having someone else's engine/genny running a few feet away from me and filling my boat with noise and fumes is a serious annoyance, the passage of night-time freight wouldn't upset me at all.

So how many boats per minute (modern boxes with fast revving modern engines, not the gentle thump thump of a vintage twin) passing would become annoying. How many times a night would you have to have your pins pulled?

 

It won't be like Ivor Batchelor giving you a nod as he pootles by with 10 ton of coal on board. In order to return to commercially viable freight transport it will be big box barges, round the clock movement, at speed.

[Annie B]

hello there, I'm new to the forum and just posted a reply to this topic which seems to have got lost in the ether, so I'll try again.

 

I'm presently involved in an Msc in renewable energy / technology etc and will be doing my thesis this summer on how boaters can get the most effective use out of their heat power and appliances (including those dam tricky batteries!!) I live part time on a boat with my partner and will be creating a simple survey to find out what type of systems are in use and what the major issues are, researching these issues in order to come up with some anwers and produce a guide (again in the survey there will be questions on what kind of guide you guys would find most appropriate). I would be great to have as much input as possible as a present there is no literature on this topic at all. If any of you do know of any manuals etc could you let me know? I shall also find a conversion unit for a bag of coal to X grams of CO2! all the best to you all Annie B

[Annie B]

CARBON EMISSIONS FROM COAL, GAS AND DIESEL ETC

 

Hi again guys found these figures on a new Canal web site Low Impact Living Onboard, they also have very kindly said they would help in my quest for info on systems for my MSc research, they are going to compile a handbook online which I hope to be able to add substancially to at the end of the summer.. all the best ANnie B

 

 

These are some figures for Carbon emitted when you burn the following fuels:

Coal

 

* 1kg of coal burned = 2.41kg CO2

 

Gas Bottles (Butane, Propane)

 

You can work out how much gas you use by looking at your gas bottles - they'll be labelled with the weight of gas they hold when full.

 

* Butane: 1kg = 1.74kg CO2

* Propane: 1kg = 1.95kg CO2

 

Wood and Charcoal

 

* from local, sustainable source: pretty much zero :-)

* if you buy charcoal at your DIY store or somewhere then the chances are it comes from Tasmanian rainforest or somewhere equally drastic - don't know what the carbon emissions would be, but pretty awful!

 

Diesel

 

* Diesel: 1litre = 2.68kg CO2

* Diesel: 1 gallon = 12.18kg CO2

 

Petrol

 

* Petrol: 1 litre = 2.31kg CO2

* Petrol: 1 gallon = 105kg CO2

[Advocate]

--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Annie B @ Mar 29 2007, 01:04 PM) 118618[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->CARBON EMISSIONS FROM COAL, GAS AND DIESEL ETC

 

Hi again guys found these figures on a new Canal web site Low Impact Living Onboard, they also have very kindly said they would help in my quest for info on systems for my MSc research, they are going to compile a handbook online which I hope to be able to add substancially to at the end of the summer.. all the best ANnie B

These are some figures for Carbon emitted when you burn the following fuels:

Coal

 

* 1kg of coal burned = 2.41kg CO2

 

Gas Bottles (Butane, Propane)

 

You can work out how much gas you use by looking at your gas bottles - they'll be labelled with the weight of gas they hold when full.

 

* Butane: 1kg = 1.74kg CO2

* Propane: 1kg = 1.95kg CO2

 

Wood and Charcoal

 

* from local, sustainable source: pretty much zero :-)

* if you buy charcoal at your DIY store or somewhere then the chances are it comes from Tasmanian rainforest or somewhere equally drastic - don't know what the carbon emissions would be, but pretty awful!

 

Diesel

 

* Diesel: 1litre = 2.68kg CO2

* Diesel: 1 gallon = 12.18kg CO2

 

Petrol

 

* Petrol: 1 litre = 2.31kg CO2

* Petrol: 1 gallon = 105kg CO2

 

I think I'm missing something here

 

If you burn 1kg Propane how do get 1.95kg CO₂ out of it

 

I could see how a small amount - say some grammes - of CO₂ would be produced

Edited March 29, 2007 by Advocate

[Typowriter]

There are quite a few people living aboard that have environmental concerns and act in a positive manner towards minimising damage. There are also people with no concern at all.

 

AnnieB would you mind posting a link to the low impact site you wrote about? Thanks.

[Annie B]

tis all to do with the chemistry, burning propane in O2 molecular weights and all.. I will work it out for you if you want but have just done exams and my poor brain is off duty untill tomorrow when its back to assignment world!! Deep joy.. Annie B

 

 

http://liloontheweb.org.uk/

sorry that i don't know how to do click and your on the link, links but a copy of the web page for your delight and delectation although its really new site and content has yet to be added.. all the best Annie

 

 

 

There are quite a few people living aboard that have environmental concerns and act in a positive manner towards minimising damage. There are also people with no concern at all.

 

AnnieB would you mind posting a link to the low impact site you wrote about? Thanks.

[gaggle]

this boater is not green and has no intention of joining in the madness.

look around and see what all them that are forcing it upon the wider public are doing, do you see them doing everything they can to save the planet or are they carrying on as they normally would.

royal family,tony blair and the other goverment cronies ,they are having a laugh boys and girls.

climate change cant happen quick enough for me and when the earth is good and ready to change its course it will do it, whether we like it or not.

future generations are probably going to find it unbelievable that the people of today could be so easily duped into the believe they could control the destiny of a planet.

wait until it gets dark tonight look to the heavens and try and realise how insignificent the human population is in the scheme of things, then again dont look up you might see the asteriod that is coming to wipe out the new all singing all dancing earth you imagine you are helping to bring back to its rightful order.

dalderdash and poppycock to all greenies.

[tomsk]

Once again I find myself siding with Gaggle and his common sense, no nonsense approach. I have considered living in a cave and rubbing two boy scouts together for warmth, however I can see no future in it.

 

Down with self-satisfied doo-gooders

[Typowriter]

I think it's more to do with not wanting to leave a mess for other people to deal with than being a "self satisfied do-gooder. "

[tomsk]

I think it's more to do with not wanting to leave a mess for other people to deal with than being a "self satisfied do-gooder. "

 

No, No, No... I have researched this matter at length... It is emphatically to do with being a self-satisfied do-gooder

[Typowriter]

No, No, No... I have researched this matter at length... It is emphatically to do with being a self-satisfied do-gooder

Care to elaborate at all? I'd love to know how you reached this conclusion.

[Purple Fairie]

I, too, agree with Gaggle, up to a point!

 

The earth has evolved this far, who are we to think it's stopped now, or that we can stop it happening? eg. a chap that was on the news last week trying to stop coastal erosion by having tonnes of soil and stone lorried in twice a year!

 

But, I don't think we are helping the matter by being as wasteful as we currently are, or have been! Surely, it's only common sense to recycle/reuse where you can? And if you can produce your own power (wind or solar) then you're going to be saving yourself money!

 

And on the subject of councils recycling.... ours have gone to the trouble (?) of giving out 3 wheelie bins, domestic waste that goes to landfill, recycleable and garden waste. Great! But, at the same time they have spent a fortune buying the necessary equipment to remove and convert the gases from landfill into energy and then sell it back to the 'grid'. The problem with this is you need waste that is going to rot down to produce the gas! And where is that? Gone to the recycling depot!

[Bones]

I, too, agree with Gaggle, up to a point!

 

 

And on the subject of councils recycling.... ours have gone to the trouble (?) of giving out 3 wheelie bins, domestic waste that goes to landfill, recycleable and garden waste. Great! But, at the same time they have spent a fortune buying the necessary equipment to remove and convert the gases from landfill into energy and then sell it back to the 'grid'. The problem with this is you need waste that is going to rot down to produce the gas! And where is that? Gone to the recycling depot!

 

oh dear - does that mean that the landfills are no longer undisturbed areas where the wildlife can flourish? Landfills are good for keeping people out of an area and enabling otherwise endangered species to propagate.

Edited March 29, 2007 by Bones

[tomsk]

Care to elaborate at all? I'd love to know how you reached this conclusion.

 

 

Through careful and extensive research, as previously stated.

 

Some people lately seem to engender a warm, soft, squelchy and slightly sick-inducing feeling of smug self-satisfaction, bemoaning those who don't wear crudely crafted clothes fashioned from sustainable reed beds and recycled tyres and transport themselves and their families on multi-seated recumbent tricycles whilst eating only mung-beans and gathering their collective flatus to boil off the next batch of foul legumes. I respect the sacrificial element and selflessness of these types, but pity those that live downwind.

 

I would also point out that it is far too late to make any discernable difference to the status quo, we are after all DOOOOOMED!!!

[anthony]

Threads like these?

 

don't sheath a wooden boat

 

don't sheath a wooden boat

 

don't sheath a wooden boat

 

etc etc. They all say the same as me (apart from the original poster).

 

But one thing I can say back on topic. Taking a wooden boat and covering it's hull in epoxy and fibreglass is NOT green!!

 

Thanks carlt for your replies my thoughts are still mixed though.

I think i said very early on sheathing is not green.

Wooden boats are very much on topic.

I shall read more.

[Hobart]

I feel very self satisfied thanks very much. What's wrong with that? I don't expect any acknowledgement from anyone else. I quite like the world around me, and I'm quite happy to do what I can to keep it that way. That includes not poisoning the ducks and fish outside with Fairy Liquid and other nasties. Just seems sensible to me. I wouldn't dream of telling others off though - it's up to them.

 

Definitely with you on the religion point. But don't see what that has to do with environmentalism. Surely if the government wanted our minds and our pennies then they'd just be encouraging us to consume consume consume!

 

neil.

[tomsk]

Religion is the Devils work.

[Supermalc]

From what I've read on this forum of buying disasters, some boaters are definately 'green'.

 

Dictionary defination 'green' someone nieve, easy to dupe, fleece, con..........

[blackrose]

Annie, just a suggestion, but I think it might make more sense to compare the CO2 emissions of the various fuels you mention according to their calorific values rather than by their weight or volume. Unless of course you're sure that burning the same quantity of each type of fuel produces exactly the same amount of energy.

Edited March 30, 2007 by blackrose

[fuzzyduck]

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QUOTE(Annie B @ Mar 29 2007, 01:04 PM) 118618[/snapback]

Diesel

 

* Diesel: 1litre = 2.68kg CO2

* Diesel: 1 gallon = 12.18kg CO2

 

Petrol

 

* Petrol: 1 litre = 2.31kg CO2

* Petrol: 1 gallon = 105kg CO2

 

So, looking at these figures I'd be much better burning petrol by the litre than by the gallon. I quite simply must remember this when I next hold a BBQ.