can anyone ID this piece of canal side equipment?

[KarlosMacronius]

An unusual request this one, a colleague of mine is supervising building works next to a canal basin (A portion of filled canal basin is on her site) and came across this:

 

 

 

Can anyone identify what it is likely to be?. It appears to be cast iron. Does anyone know of a similar item?

 

My guess is part of lifting gear but have heard of similar items used for sub surface supports for large Victorian gates (seems like overkill to me but that's the Victorians for you! and probably why a lot of their stuff is still around and in use today...).

Edited August 5, 2015 by KarlosMacronius

[stagedamager]

Looks like a crane base.

[Keeping Up]

Almost certainly a crane base. Stand it upright and the swivelling top part fits into the round collar.

[IanM]

Looks like a crane base.

 

My initial thoughts too.

 

Where is the site? You never know, someone might be able to find some historical pictures of it.

Edited August 5, 2015 by IanM

[KarlosMacronius]

Those were my initial thoughts, though the base of the object doesn't appear to have any fittings to secure it to something. I suppose it could just slot into two channels in a concrete/brick base...

The site is next to city road basin in London.

[springy]

My initial reaction too, and I wondered if it should at least in part be sunken into the ground which would

in turn bring the pivot down to a level to allow the upper part (crane itself) to be manually operated

 

However most manually operated pivot cranes i've seen have the jib triangulated down to a ground level

pivot with its own roller to help carry the load on the end of the jib (will go & try to find a pic) and from an

engineering point of view suggests that whatever the item did support, it didnt have high lateral forces at

the pivot as you would have on a jib crane.

 

springy

[PaulG]

On a much larger scale, but...

[KarlosMacronius]

I'm now thinking (after much looking at yards cranes on the internet) that it is unlikely to be part of a hoist/crane unless its the buried portion of something similar to this https://www.flickr.com/photos/45131642@N00/15628829106

[springy]

Just had a quick google & whilst I found many images of the type of crane I'm thinking of,

none were particularly clear

 

this one

 

 

you can just about make out the wheel running on a conical part of the base,

 

On the other hand I found a few images of cranes with either large counterbalances, or upper pivot

supports

 

still not convinced its a crane pivot from an engineering point of view

 

springy

 

 

[magnetman]

On a much larger scale, but...

It looks very like the vertical part on that drawing to me

[Jerra]

It looks very like the vertical part on that drawing to me

I thought that as well.

[Pluto]

It does not look like it came from a crane me. Perhaps it could be part of a weighing machine, such as the balance beam which would be covered by the weighing plate, which is something likely to be found on a canal wharf.

[KarlosMacronius]

Just had a quick google & whilst I found many images of the type of crane I'm thinking of,

none were particularly clear

 

this one

 

 

you can just about make out the wheel running on a conical part of the base,

 

On the other hand I found a few images of cranes with either large counterbalances, or upper pivot

supports

 

still not convinced its a crane pivot from an engineering point of view

 

springy

 

 

 

This type of yard crane has a column running from the base to roughly the top which is static and the whole thing pivots around. An image of one of these bases out of the ground can be seen here: http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/kingscote/goodsyard.html They're massive. We're not convinced its part of a crane/hoist either... leaning towards the gate base ( a colleague has seen similar objects used for this purpose) but probably going with something like "sub surface socket for pivoting object"

[magnetman]

What will happen to it in the plans?

 

Is it going to be feature with a little plaque beside it

[PaulG]

I'm quite liking the look of the central pillar on this crane:

Edited to say that evidently it was taken on the Hockerill Cut in 1986..

Edited August 6, 2015 by PaulG

[RLWP]

It's unlikely though. The central column is the pivot for the crane with a bearing top and bottom. Square would be a bizarre shape for the cast column

 

Chances are this is just a bit of scrap in the yard

 

Richard

[PaulG]

It's unlikely though. The central column is the pivot for the crane with a bearing top and bottom. Square would be a bizarre shape for the cast column

 

Chances are this is just a bit of scrap in the yard

 

Richard

I've looked at an enlargement and it does appear to be square.

[magnetman]

.

Edited August 6, 2015 by magnetman

[magnetman]

I think PaulG's original picture shows the part anyway

[Pluto]

As I mention above, this is very unlikely to be part of a crane. It is much more likely to be the balance arm of a cart weighing machine. These had, at ground level, a large flat cast iron plate on which the cart could stand, with a cast iron balance beam underneath to connect the plate with the measuring scales which were usually in a small building alongside the cast iron plate. The balance beam would be much like that discovered during the excavations, with some form of fulcrum at the broken end, which then continued with a replica of the surviving piece to make a beam with flexible connections to the plate at either end, and a fulcrum connected to the weighing scales at the centre. Such scales were found at many canal and railway yards.

[KarlosMacronius]

As I mention above, this is very unlikely to be part of a crane. It is much more likely to be the balance arm of a cart weighing machine. These had, at ground level, a large flat cast iron plate on which the cart could stand, with a cast iron balance beam underneath to connect the plate with the measuring scales which were usually in a small building alongside the cast iron plate. The balance beam would be much like that discovered during the excavations, with some form of fulcrum at the broken end, which then continued with a replica of the surviving piece to make a beam with flexible connections to the plate at either end, and a fulcrum connected to the weighing scales at the centre. Such scales were found at many canal and railway yards.

The object is not broken. It is as it was cast. It does not look like a moving part to me. (though it possibly had a moving part attached to it in the 'top' socket.)

What will happen to it in the plans?

 

Is it going to be feature with a little plaque beside it

It will go for scrap/landfill. Everything on site that is in the way will be pulled up and destroyed, we will of course record it as best we can but when the contractor digs a massive hole and wont let you in it there's not much we can do. Its almost as if we need some sort of legally binding Heritage legislation with real consequences for ignoring it....

[Pluto]

In your first photo, it certainly appears to be broken such that the square ends were connected to some sort of larger central section, though photos are harder to interpret compared to the actual object.