Define a vintage engine

[gazza]

Hard isnt it, i'm 28 and now see cars I grew up with in classic car shows (Mid 90's escort, say) and stuff mym dad had at my age is in the vintage section!

 

I think my the kitcar as a fairly new ish car, but its also at 24yo old than the above, and the engines from 84'

 

 

Daniel

 

 

What that engine needs is a boat!

 

 

Classic and mid 90's escorts not common in the same sentance! with a couple of exceptions - and that exception was based on the Sierra floor pan anyway....

 

Gaz - a Ford nut thru and thru!

Also look here for a car show with a difference, I am going this year to relive some of the utterly mundane cars from my yoof (36 now...)

 

https://www.hagertyinsurance.co.uk/Articles-and-Resources/Events/Festival-of-the-Unexceptional

[Nightwatch]

I was made in 1952, finished in 1953. I am vintage, but not a classic. I no longer go bonk bonk bonk!!

 

Is this off topic?

[LEO]

I was made in 1952, finished in 1953. I am vintage, but not a classic. I no longer go bonk bonk bonk!!

 

Is this off topic?

 

Perhaps this should be qualified, by do you have an electric starter or a 'hand cranking' device fitted?.

[Nightwatch]

Now let's see, probably more hand cranked.

 

Back on topic, when will my Barrus Shire become a vintage?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quite right, I'm not being serious.

[Paul C]

 

 

Classic and mid 90's escorts not common in the same sentance! with a couple of exceptions - and that exception was based on the Sierra floor pan anyway....

 

Gaz - a Ford nut thru and thru!

Also look here for a car show with a difference, I am going this year to relive some of the utterly mundane cars from my yoof (36 now...)

 

https://www.hagertyinsurance.co.uk/Articles-and-Resources/Events/Festival-of-the-Unexceptional

 

For the words "classic" or "vintage" or whatever to have any further value over simply being old, or describing a particular era in the history or something, we'd need to define that further value and thus some items would simply be old without being classic. For example, should we be describing Morris Marinas as a classic? Or 90s Ford Escorts? Or Mk3 Golfs? Austin Metro? etc

[gazza]

 

For the words "classic" or "vintage" or whatever to have any further value over simply being old, or describing a particular era in the history or something, we'd need to define that further value and thus some items would simply be old without being classic. For example, should we be describing Morris Marinas as a classic? Or 90s Ford Escorts? Or Mk3 Golfs? Austin Metro? etc

 

Absolutley not, to me modern classic would probably be a better tag. To be a modern classic I would expect the car to have had some tangible worth (not necessarilly monetary value), both when new and now.

 

The marina, other than being a cheap way to turn out another model on Minor bits had none,

The mk 5/ 90's Escort was killed by the accountants pinching the quality out of it.

Mk 3 Golf? universally aknowledged as the one to avoid of all Golf variants.

Austin bloody Metro? Perlease!!

 

Once you get away from the cooking models, things like the Mk 3 Golf VR6 Escort Cossie/RS2000 and even the Marina TC have a little more appeal, but as you say, the term Classic is wide ranging and over used - especially when applied to stuff that is just old sh!te that was crap in its day, and unlike a fine wine, not aged well either

[Robbo]

The thread about the BMC replacement got me thinking when MTB pointed out (rightly I think) that an SR/ST isn't a vintage lump. I'm pretty sure a lot of us could say whether any given engine is or isn't vintage. Can anyone define a vintage engine though, describe the properties that an engine has to have to get the title, I'm at a loss.

 

If it has four legs and weighs half a ton?

[Paul C]

 

If it has four legs and weighs half a ton?

 

I can see flaws in that definition.....

 

 

 

 

Absolutley not, to me modern classic would probably be a better tag. To be a modern classic I would expect the car to have had some tangible worth (not necessarilly monetary value), both when new and now.

 

The marina, other than being a cheap way to turn out another model on Minor bits had none,

The mk 5/ 90's Escort was killed by the accountants pinching the quality out of it.

Mk 3 Golf? universally aknowledged as the one to avoid of all Golf variants.

Austin bloody Metro? Perlease!!

 

Once you get away from the cooking models, things like the Mk 3 Golf VR6 Escort Cossie/RS2000 and even the Marina TC have a little more appeal, but as you say, the term Classic is wide ranging and over used - especially when applied to stuff that is just old sh!te that was crap in its day, and unlike a fine wine, not aged well either

 

Shall we say the Mk3 Golf GTI 16V is a classic, but the Mk3 Golf GTI 8V isn't? Or is it just the VR6?

 

ok what about Vauxhall Astra GTE? What about the SR? What about the CD? GL?

 

See its not as easy as it seems, once you decide that some old cars aren't classics......

Edited July 6, 2015 by Paul C

[Sabcat]

When it comes to cars I think Gaz is spot on (as another Ford nut can we please, please forget that the MKIV Escort ever happened?) the car has to to have been desirable in it's time. There's cars that weren't desirable in their time fetching money but that's because some people are dumb.

 

 

Shall we say the Mk3 Golf GTI 16V is a classic, but the Mk3 Golf GTI 8V isn't? Or is it just the VR6?

 

ok what about Vauxhall Astra GTE? What about the SR? What about the CD? GL?

 

See its not as easy as it seems, once you decide that some old cars aren't classics......

 

I think the MK2 Golf GTI is a classic 8v and 16v. Not sure about any of the MK3 Golfs, even the VR6.

[Robbo]

 

I can see flaws in that definition.....

 

cow.jpeg

 

 

It would make cyclists slow down meeting one of them of on the towpath.

[gazza]

 

I can see flaws in that definition.....

 

cow.jpeg

 

 

 

 

Shall we say the Mk3 Golf GTI 16V is a classic, but the Mk3 Golf GTI 8V isn't? Or is it just the VR6?

 

ok what about Vauxhall Astra GTE? What about the SR? What about the CD? GL?

 

See its not as easy as it seems, once you decide that some old cars aren't classics......

No, we covered that, old does not equal classic.

A 1600 gl cavalier was always a hateful thing, time has done nought for it,

 

As for the GTi, they fall into the models with slightly more interest than a Driver or GL.

TBH I couldn't be arsed to list every warmed over variant

[Paul C]

No, we covered that, old does not equal classic.

 

 

Agreed. Who decides though? Is it possible to define it?

 

Is it possible to define a vintage engine?

[larkshall]

Hard isnt it, i'm 28 and now see cars I grew up with in classic car shows (Mid 90's escort, say) and stuff mym dad had at my age is in the vintage section!

 

I think my the kitcar as a fairly new ish car, but its also at 24yo old than the above, and the engines from 84'

 

 

Daniel

 

 

What that engine needs is a boat!

[larkshall]

Fords from the 80s eight. I had a bad time with fords of this era, and the 90s all company cars. I had a Sierra cosworth a real problem more often stolen than driven. Also had cortinas the dreaded xr3i. All supplied by SMACS (southern aero and motor corporation). All had problems if I'd owned them I would have sworn. Eventually the company swapped to Audi and BMWs. These were reliable quick and comfortable. But everything was an extra, even radios. My favourites were an Audi Quattro, and a BMWs 535. Then got promoted to management and it was mercs. They had street cred, but frankly weren't much fun. So much so I had to keep at least one fun car. Usually MGA or MGB. My fav was the v8 B. Those were the days. Overseas the company supplied some weird and wonderful cars but that would be another post.

[The Ents]

Ahhh, the MGB V8, that is a classic...

[Peter-Bullfinch]

Not vintage, not veteran, probably not classic either but it's our Sabb 2g 22hp from 1977. We are still fond of it.

[LEO]

Not vintage, not veteran, probably not classic either but it's our Sabb 2g 22hp from 1977. We are still fond of it.

 

Hi,

 

Nice engine, perhaps the word we are looking for is 'character' --- except for some of the old vintage / veteran ones - of which there are few.

[Athy]

Not vintage, not veteran, probably not classic either but it's our Sabb 2g 22hp from 1977. We are still fond of it.

The design dates back to about 1955, which probably puts it in the classic category. The sound which it emits (yes, I watched your You Tube video) certainly does.

[MtB]

Any engine where you can hear each individual cylinder firing separately on tickover, would be my definition.

 

A visible rotating flywheel is mandatory too, with the notable exception of the 2LW.

[DHutch]

Fords from the 80s eight. I had a bad time with fords of this era, and the 90s all company cars. I had a Sierra cosworth a real problem more often stolen than driven. Also had cortinas the dreaded xr3i. All had problems if I'd owned them I would have sworn.

Fortnaulty enough of the car is not Ford that Ford issues are raire (or just over shaddowed by the kitcar related issues) although the gearbox selector did die. ..

 

 

It's also now all 24+yo...

 

 

 

Daniel

... modern classic would probably be a better tag....

That's what my E36 compact was sold as...

[gazza]

That's what my E36 compact was sold as...

Really?! I would apply that to the E21 & E30 the E36 compact perhaps not it was BM'S first effort at getting ford and Vauxhall drives in a 3 series before PCP was invented and prior to their huge success in the Fleet market.

 

Still, at least its a proper BMW unlike the new front wheel drive dorkmobile they are trying to temp those with no interest and want the badge into

[cereal tiller]

Any engine where you can hear each individual cylinder firing separately on tickover, would be my definition.

 

A visible rotating flywheel is mandatory too, with the notable exception of the 2LW.

So,your requirement is met by:

B.M.C.2.2

Perkins P4/6

Ford 4D E.TC......

 

Way back they all had Pneumatic Governors and on Tickover each Cylinder could be hear firing clearly.

 

CT

[gazza]

Daniel, I meant to ask what type of box you are running, type E, type 9 or MT 75?

[DHutch]

Type 9

[gazza]

Type 9

I broke 2 x type E in my Capri, fitted a type 9 out of a Sierra which made it a good motorway muncher but killed the fun a little as it was quite long legged.

 

Never had the money for an MT 75 with some choice ratios - its by far the strongest box available, but required a bit of faffing to fit.

 

Happy Days

 

Scrappies used to be awash with RWD ford stuff, guess they are a bit thin on the ground these days? Can't remember the last time I saw a Sierra on the road, let alone anything earlier!