Old boat, new fit out, ideas and advice will be needed!

[IanR]

Hi everyone, I've just bought my first boat and am embarking on a self fit out. We are quite handy with the practical stuff but could do with advice from fellow users as to the systems they've found best. The boat is an undercloth conversion with doors both sides at about the mid point down the cloth area. So there are two ends with no through access. One end will be a shower toilet room, the other the bedroom. The bedroom end we were thinking at the rear of the hold, against the engine room bulkhead (no through access) That leaves a kitchen and lounge area to go inbetween.

 

So, the water system would consist of two sinks, both with hot and cold, plus the shower. What would be the set up for that, a pump for each cold tap, same for hot or would one pump do both cold taps etc? Sinks presumably gravity drain?

 

The shower would need a pump out or are there pumps / systems available that would pump and heat as well as pump out the grey water.

 

Would / could there be a problem having the water tank, calorifier at one end of the hold and the shower, sinks etc at the other end?

 

Sorry for all of the questions, I've done searches for products and answers but there seems so much conflicting info out there, as well as numerous products that it seems to be more reliable to ask users than just dive in!!

 

Many thanks, Ian.

 

...sadly, there will be more daft questions coming!!

Edited June 15, 2015 by IanR

[Bod]

Firstly Read the B.S.S. requirement's, its easier to do the work to those requirements, than to have to alter later to pass the B.S.S.

 

Bod

[bottle]

Link to BSS http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/

 

Lets start with the first question... one pump fitted as close as possible to the water tank will supply all taps and shower, look at. Jabsco Par Max

 

Shower will be pumped directly over the side, suggested pump Whale Gulper.

 

Calorifier is usually fitted as close to engine or source of heating water (gas or diesel) as possible.

 

My water tank is in the bow and the calorifier is at the stern.

 

Sinks do gravity drain and it is not necessary to fit 'U' bend, just 90° bend ensure that outlet (in side of boat) is above the water line by required amount

[Odana]

If you want some sound advice and good ideas before starting to experiment, you could do worse than invest in a few days of time from Ally of this forum. Ally used to be the design side of Beacon Boats and is a mine of useful information and clever ideas to save you space, hassle, and thus ultimately money and time.

[Ally]

Once you have had assorted answers, should you still feel unsure, I would be more than happy to offer my services, as an independent professional. I can help with design ideas, systems, and any guidance you require. It's my business, so I would need to charge, but you would be getting professional tried and tested thoughts and guidance.

[Neil Smith]

There are a couple of books by Tony Boothe called narrow boat design and narrow boat building I bought both when I bought a new shell, and have been very helpful.

 

Neil

[Mike Tee]

You say no thru access from engine room - I think that would be my first hard look at the fit out. You don't have to have this access but it would make life far easier

- delivery of tea etc when cruising

- toilet / kitchen access from back cabin during the night or first thing in morning

- with no rear door in the undercloth conversion how do you change steerers when cruising (not easy to walk down the gunnel on one of these)

- visitors would find it very tricky to join you on the back

and I'm sure there are lots of other benefits but it's too early to think of them! plus I'm sure there are benefits to leaving the layout as it is but its all personal choice

[MtB]

Two suggestions.

 

1) Don't try to re-invent the wheel, install water, waste, gas and heating systems the same as everyone else.

 

If/when failures happen in the future, parts will be freely available any marine engineer who might be called in to fix it will understand what has been installed. There's nothing more likely to make my heart sink than being called out by (say) a widow who says proudly when I get there, "this system is different and better than most, it was designed by husband who was an engineer". Immediately I know nothing will be quite as I expect it to be, conventions will be ignored and the system will be riddled with oddities I'll have to figure out before even starting to diagnose the fault I was called in to fix.

 

One of the quickest ways to get a grip on the design conventions of the services in narrowboats in to spend a few hours mooching around a branch of Midland Chandlers. Their showrooms are vast and by looking at what they stock on display you'll get a clear idea of what sells and is widely used for fitting out. Staff are generally knowledgeable and helpful too.

 

2) I'll second the suggestion to employ Ally for a day or so. She knows narrowboat building inside out and will cover everything for you in proper detail, and advising people like you is now her line of business!

 

MtB

[dmr]

The only problem with having the sink/shower a long way from the calorifier is that the hot water tap runs cold for a while till the hot water comes through, so you can end up wasting a bit of water.

BSS might object to centre doors unless you provide a means of escape at each end.

 

I would try to get a look at a few existing undercloth conversions.

 

.................Dave

[IanR]

Many thanks for the replies folks, much appreciated.

 

We've no plan to reinvent the wheel at all, hence the question to find out what folks are and have been successfully using. This seems the most practical and reliable method of research. The plan once we have more ideas as to what we want where etc we will venture into the realms of the chandlers, we'll have more of an idea of what we want to buy, and not necessarily buy what they want to sell.

 

Regarding access through, the fuel tank is on the other side of the bulkhead so we don't plan on hacking things about and am happy with the set up the boat has and we'll have to design around that.

 

The boat will have the cross planks just ahead of the engine room which will give standing space for any passengers once we're underway. The back cabin will be the mashing cabin during a days travelling and will be kept as is for guest accommodation and storage. We don't want to have any impact on the traditional styling of the boat, apart from what's going on in the hold.

 

Bottle, the Whale Gulper has been mentioned elsewhere and seems a very popular choice, Jabsco pumps too seem well looked upon. Are these pumps noisy, as in would you want it under the bed?

 

Ian.

[cuthound]

If you ask them nicely Midland Chandlers will send you a paper catalogue. Much easier to browse than their web site!

[IanR]

Dave, our boat has had a BSS certificate since the steelwork for the conversion has been in place, so I'm guessing all examiners should think alike? We bought the boat only a couple of weeks ago, after a full survey which highlighted some hull work necessary and which won't be done til mid end August. I take on board what your saying though as it would be a scary place to get out of in the event of fire at the doors! I'm guessing the windows would be as good a place as any to leap through! We planned on removing some of the windows but might rethink a bit of this in light of your words. The boat we bought is Indus Too which, now I've let on I guess will open a can of worms with its cut and shut, backwards boat going forwards history. That said, we like it and its history, the only bit I don't like is the 'Too' bit on the name, looks nasty, a bit like 'Cutz' and the like you see on some hairdressers signs!!

 

Ian.

[bottle]

Bottle, the Whale Gulper has been mentioned elsewhere and seems a very popular choice, Jabsco pumps too seem well looked upon. Are these pumps noisy, as in would you want it under the bed?

 

 

All pumps are 'noisy' but as to the level of noise and your acceptance of that noise is personal.

 

My Gulper is in the bedroom (bottom of wardrobe) but it does not bother us as we are both up and about when it runs, it would wake you up though.

 

The Jabsco is under the front step and can be heard but mounting it on rubber mounts has reduced that, it is good to hear the pump as, if it ran sporadically without water being used it could alert you to a leak.

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

The Jabsco is under the front step and can be heard but mounting it on rubber mounts has reduced that, it is good to hear the pump as, if it ran sporadically without water being used it could alert you to a leak.

Very true. ours never runs at night even if we use the loo, good sized accumulator bottle

[IanR]

Thanks again folks, I think the cold side of our set up is getting clearer, so we can move onto the next thinking point! Same type of pump for the hot water system? I presume this would again be best fitted close to the water tank to pump into the calorifier?

 

Ian.

[Neil Smith]

One pump does both hot and cold, pump near tank feeds all cold taps and cold fill on calorifier, the pressure of this pushes the hot water out of the outlet of it to hot taps.

 

Neil

[IanR]

Ah thanks, you learn something everyday!!

 

Ian.

[bottle]

True but see post #3. Quoted below

 

 

Lets start with the first question... one pump fitted as close as possible to the water tank will supply all taps and shower, look at. Jabsco Par Max

 

I did miss out the calorifier but did say all taps, having said that you can fit a separate pump for the hot water (taps) if you wish.

 

If plumbed in correctly you would have a 'fail safe' system if one pumps fails.

 

Many people have two pumps either two plumbed in (only one in use) or one sitting in the store cupboard as spare.

 

Now (fingers crossed) mine has been working for nearly six years (live aboard) and I don't have a spare.

 

[Athy]

The boat we bought is Indus Too which, now I've let on I guess will open a can of worms with its cut and shut, backwards boat going forwards history. That said, we like it and its history, the only bit I don't like is the 'Too' bit on the name, looks nasty,

 

Ian.

Isn't it called that because there is also a working boat (I've seen it trading) called 'Indus'? The name differentiates between the too two boats but is also a common denominator: this one's Indus, that one's Indus too!

Edited June 18, 2015 by Athy

[IanR]

Yes Athy, both halves were turned back into working boats, Indus Too (stern end going tuther way) worked up until 2009 apparently. The other, Indus, is still trading I think. I'd love to find out who did the work on the both of them as (to me) the new bits look superb and fit in nicely.

 

Indus No. 2 looks so much better than Indus Too though!!!

 

Ian.

[IanR]

Long time no post as the boat has been away for hull work in the form of a new bottom and footings to the older end of the hull. This was done at P J Barbers yard at Sheet Stores of Long Eaton. We took it back to the marina at Alvecote in three days this week which was a great trip for us novices, Erewash Canal, River Trent, Trent and Mersey then the Coventry, lots of traffic and 20 odd locks, it was fab!!

 

We had the steelwork at the rear of the undercloth modified to reinstate the back end planks so there is more place to stand when underway, plus the new triangle will form an emergency exit in the bedroom. Under the planks the plan is to have a freshwater tank and the hot water cylinder. In the next few weeks we hope to get a bit more done though a house move will hopefully get in the way. The boat now at least is in a state that although it needs a good tidy and a repaint, the basic hull, superstructure and its mechanics are sound and a good empty starting point for us. The only thing we've done on it up to now is strip the hold area completely, make new cabin and engine room slides, plus give the engine a flush and an oil change. Anyhoo, here are a couple of pics of the boat and its powerplant.

 

Ian.

 

 

 

 

[MtB]

A four cylinder Ruston?!

 

Not short on power then!!

[IanR]

As you've guessed Mike it has a bit of grunt about it. Sounds lovely pootling about on tickover, smoke rings galore, has 45 horses but we don't neccesarily let them all out at once.

 

Ian.

[MtB]

Sounds lovely!

 

When I eventually get single cylinder lumps out of my system, three and four cylinder motors beckon.

 

Twins R boring. Two a penny innit!

[Neil Smith]

Yes my 4 cylinder yanmar sounds amazing, Ha Ha.

 

Neil