CRT answer questions to new T&Cs

[GoodGurl]

for those not sure here are the answers,

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/9095-boat-licence-terms-and-conditions-faqs.pdf

[BD3Bill]

This is helpful, thanks for sharing! :0)

And fairplay to CRT for listening to peoples concerns and responding in plain english.

[Richard10002]

Seems fair enough to me.

 

"If you have a home mooring but aren't on it you are expected to be Cruising", might be worth pulling up a deckchair for

[MtB]

Seems fair enough to me.

 

"If you have a home mooring but aren't on it you are expected to be Cruising", might be worth pulling up a deckchair for

 

Or defining, even!

And from GG's link:

 

14 day rule applying to all boaters

The ’14 day rule’, whereby you cannot stay in one place for more than 14 days, has always applied to all boaters regardless of whether or not you have a Home Mooring.

 

Are CRT attempting to re-write history with this bit?

[Timleech]

 

14 day rule applying to all boaters

The ’14 day rule’, whereby you cannot stay in one place for more than 14 days, has always applied to all boaters regardless of whether or not you have a Home Mooring.

 

Are CRT attempting to re-write history with this bit?

 

 

I've had the impression that there has been such a rule, from well before the requirement to have an approved home mooring, but never been aware of any serious attempt to enforce it. There was very little pressure on space at that time.

I don't know what basis, legal or otherwise, the rule had.

 

Tim

[cotswoldsman]

 

Or defining, even!

 

And from GG's link:

 

14 day rule applying to all boaters

The 14 day rule, whereby you cannot stay in one place for more than 14 days, has always applied to all boaters regardless of whether or not you have a Home Mooring.

 

Are CRT attempting to re-write history with this bit?

Seems fair enough to me

[MtB]

I must have missed the bit where they defined place...

[mrsmelly]

Like I keep saying......nowts changed.

 

Tim

[MtB]

Like I keep saying......nowts changed.

 

Tim

 

The 'place' bit has changed.

[Alan de Enfield]

I must have missed the bit where they defined place...

 

No you didn't - previously it was "location" (as in a particular 'spot'), now it is 'place' (as in neighbourhood etc)

[jenlyn]

Place is where you moor. 95 act says so.

[Bettie Boo]

Thanks for the info GG

[luctor et emergo]

 

Or defining, even!

 

And from GG's link:

 

14 day rule applying to all boaters

The 14 day rule, whereby you cannot stay in one place for more than 14 days, has always applied to all boaters regardless of whether or not you have a Home Mooring.

 

Are CRT attempting to re-write history with this bit?

come now, surely it is CRT that make the rules, and you either comply, or sell up?

 

CRT is going after those bridge hopping with a mooring. And you cant complain.

[MtB]

 

No you didn't - previously it was "location" (as in a particular 'spot'), now it is 'place' (as in neighbourhood etc)

 

 

My point exactly.

 

 

MtB

[Alan de Enfield]

Place is where you moor. 95 act says so.

 

And the relevance of that is ?

 

C&RTs T&Cs definition is :

 

The Shorter Oxford Dictionary gives some 8 separate principal meanings for the noun ‘place’. Therefore the rules of legal interpretation require the meaning that most appropriately fits the context to be used. Since ‘navigation’ means travelling by water and ‘travel’ means a journey of some distance, the word ‘place’ in this context is used by the Act to mean an “area inhabited or frequented by people, as a city, town, a village etc” (meaning 4b in the Shorter Oxford Dictionary).

[jenlyn]

And the relevance of that is ?

 

C&RTs T&Cs definition is :

 

The Shorter Oxford Dictionary gives some 8 separate principal meanings for the noun ‘place’. Therefore the rules of legal interpretation require the meaning that most appropriately fits the context to be used. Since ‘navigation’ means travelling by water and ‘travel’ means a journey of some distance, the word ‘place’ in this context is used by the Act to mean an “area inhabited or frequented by people, as a city, town, a village etc” (meaning 4b in the Shorter Oxford Dictionary).

You can interpret, wriggle or propose whatever you want. The law states what was meant when it was developed. End of, until it's changed or updated by a new law.

[Alan de Enfield]

You can interpret, wriggle or propose whatever you want. The law states what was meant when it was developed. End of, until it's changed or updated by a new law.

 

I hope by "YOU", you meant C&RT.

 

If you meant 'ME' then you've missed many of my posts on the subject

[jenlyn]

I hope by "YOU", you meant C&RT.

 

If you meant 'ME' then you've missed many of my posts on the subject

I was replying to your post, not crt. You were emphasising it.

[Alan de Enfield]

I was replying to your post, not crt. You were emphasising it.

 

The sarcasm obviously eluded you.

[GoodGurl]

well i am pleased CRT have put all the guessing to bed, seems this latest release has done it's job.

[luctor et emergo]

well i am pleased CRT have put all the guessing to bed, seems this latest release has done it's job.

yep. You are to stay away in a marina, and only get out at agreed occasions, or move as if your ass is on fire.

 

And anyway, if they don't like you, they can make up an excuse and not renew your licence. .

 

 

enjoy life on the liniar country park...

[Alan de Enfield]

well i am pleased CRT have put all the guessing to bed, seems this latest release has done it's job.

 

You are very easily pleased, or very easily led.

 

Does no one else find this paragraph totally contradictory

 

Home moorers required to follow ‘Guidance for Boats without a Home Mooring’

If you have a Home Mooring for your boat we do not expect you to follow the guidance for those who don’t have a Home Mooring. However, we do require you to cruise whilst away from the Home Mooring. If you are sighted for an extended period in a limited area moving between a few adjacent places without returning to your Home Mooring, you will not be “cruising” and this may attract the attention of our enforcement team

 

So - you do not have to follow the "No Home Mooring Guidelines" but you do have to cruise and be in more than a 'few' different places. (No doing A to B to C to B to A)

Remember C&RTs definition of 'an extended period' is 14 days.

 

So - lets look at C&RTs definition of 'cruise' for a Boat With A Home Mooring :-

"The terms ‘cruise’ and ‘cruising’ are used in this guidance to mean using a boat bona fide for navigation"

 

If I remember correctly the 1995 Act states for Boats WITHOUT a Home Mooring :

 

..the applicant for the relevant consent satisfies the Board that the vessel to which the application relates will be used bona fide for navigation throughout the period for which the consent is valid without remaining continuously in any one place for more than 14 days or such longer period as is reasonable in the circumstances.

 

In summary C&RT are now saying that boats WITH a Home Mooring do not need to follow the guidance for Boats WITHOUT a Home Mooring, but (in contravention the 1995 Act) they MUST Bona Fide navigate and must not move about in a SMALL NUMBER of (undefined) PLACES.

 

I can see why GoodGurl believes they have clarified the situation. !!!!!

[FidoDido]

Useful link to CRT FAQs - ta for posting.

 

Is Birmingham a "place" ? If so, you might get "nicked" despite travelling 70 miles round the BCN! I imagine they still mean "parish or neighbourhood" - guess they are trying to say, don't just go from the 48hr visitor mooring, 50 yards up the cut to a 14 day, and shuffle between the two..

 

We go from the definition of "location" to "place"... You get what they are meaning, though.. Though whether they can actually enforce anything is starting to come into considerable doubt!!

[MtB]

Useful link to CRT FAQs - ta for posting.

 

Is Birmingham a "place" ? If so, you might get "nicked" despite travelling 70 miles round the BCN! I imagine they still mean "parish or neighbourhood" - guess they are trying to say, don't just go from the 48hr visitor mooring, 50 yards up the cut to a 14 day, and shuffle between the two..

 

We go from the definition of "location" to "place"... You get what they are meaning, though.. Though whether they can actually enforce anything is starting to come into considerable doubt!!

 

And the stiffest penalty they are threatening to apply to a home moorer who bridge hops appears to be to check with their mooring provider they actually rent the mooring.

 

What if the answer comes back 'yes they have a legitimate mooring here'?

[Arthur Marshall]

Without going down the same old route of arguing about "place" or "location", it's obvious that CRT are using a fuzzy definition deliberately. As has been argued endlessly in other threads, this will be sorted out in the end in court, which is the right place for it, and CRt will probably win. For most home moorers, who nip out for a few days here and there or for a month or two in the summer, the changes will make no difference at all. For those using their own definitions to bridge hop somewhere, it will. The other thing relates to contract law, which is interesting as it's the last surviving bit of the old feudal legal system. Terms and Conditons can in general (certainly those of employment) be changed at the whim of the contracting party and there is nothing the contractee can do about it except either accept the changes or quit. Whether this is true in other fields apart from employment I have no idea, but I suspect that it is indeed the case.