Canal Crossroads - who has 'Right of Way'?

[Wanderer Vagabond]

I would say the New Main Line has priority but as you say it also has slightly better visibility of emerging boats (but not much better).

 

Having said that I had a very near miss there a couple of years ago when a trip boat that should have known better came out of the junction at speed just as I was passing on the NML. I sounded my horn and and if I hadn't taken rapid avoiding action he would have gone straight into the side of me at some speed. No apology either!

Which way were you coming? According to Alan's diagram if you were coming from Brum and the trip boat came out of Soho Loop it was you that should have given way!

[George Kennedy]

It's no different to the old question regarding roads.

Four cars arrive at a roundabout from four different directions at exactly the same time, who goes first?

[George Kennedy]

Answer: The Taxi driver

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Probabably similar to a road junction where of course no one ever has Right of way.

 

Tim

I'm not sure that I've ever come across a junction in the UK without any road markings. I have in Marrakech at Jemaa el Fna which was quite exciting for those of a nervous disposition watching an elderly lady taking her cow across the road (she survived!!).

 

It's no different to the old question regarding roads.

Four cars arrive at a roundabout from four different directions at exactly the same time, who goes first?

The difference with this junction is that rather than sitting looking at each other deciding who should go first, you don't actually realise you are in the junction until its too late (if you aren't taking full attention).

Edited March 6, 2015 by Wanderer Vagabond

[valrene9600]

I like the crossroads found in USA called 4 way stop. Whoever arrives first has priority.

If two arrive same time then to the right has priority.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

I like the crossroads found in USA called 4 way stop. Whoever arrives first has priority.

If two arrive same time then to the right has priority.

Sounds a lovely idea, what could POSSIBLY go wrong

[Peter X]

It's no different to the old question regarding roads.

Four cars arrive at a roundabout from four different directions at exactly the same time, who goes first?

Only four? You're not from London, are you? Surely unless it's a really tiny roundabout, everyone enters it together, slowly if it's a bit crowded. For example at Hyde Park Corner you can only see one or two of the other roads leading into it, and all that matters is what's on the bit of the roundabout approaching your junction. At any given moment there are usually about 50 to 100 vehicles in the roundabout, but the traffic does thin out a little during the night.

[Kendal]

The col-regs have the answer

 

 

Fine when you are in a wide open space on the choppy stuff, but they don't really work on a narrow canal. Picture a bridge 'ole that's 7' wide.............

[Wanderer Vagabond]

 

Fine when you are in a wide open space on the choppy stuff, but they don't really work on a narrow canal. Picture a bridge 'ole that's 7' wide.............

....I did say that I don't think I'd press the point. I tend to wonder however if that is what the Insurers would work to in the event of a substantial collision.

Only four? You're not from London, are you? Surely unless it's a really tiny roundabout, everyone enters it together, slowly if it's a bit crowded. For example at Hyde Park Corner you can only see one or two of the other roads leading into it, and all that matters is what's on the bit of the roundabout approaching your junction. At any given moment there are usually about 50 to 100 vehicles in the roundabout, but the traffic does thin out a little during the night.

Ee only 50 to 100, have you been through the 'Magic Roundabout' at Swindon? they dream of only having that few cars going through it. (cue:-Enter 4 yorkshiremen stage left )

[valrene9600]

Sounds a lovely idea, what could POSSIBLY go wrong:unsure:

Worked fine all the time I was driving. But there will always be law breakers. We get idiots here jumping red lights. Nothing is fool proof but some schemes help the flow. Like the turn right on a red.

[Tom and Bex]

Which way were you coming? According to Alan's diagram if you were coming from Brum and the trip boat came out of Soho Loop it was you that should have given way!

I was heading out Brum and trip boat was coming out of Icknield port loop so he still should have given way!

[FadeToScarlet]

I think that Tycho always has priority....

 

http://www.nationalhistoricships.org.uk/img.php?o=jpg&p=watermark&f=/data/nrhv/vessels/2696_TYCHO_1.jpg

Edited March 7, 2015 by FadeToScarlet

[Dave_P]

Using common sense, I always give extra care coming out of the loops because I know that most of the boats travelling the main line are oblivious to the possibility that I may be there.

[magpie patrick]

A few years ago I approached this junction from Hockley Port and reached for the horn button: not paying attention I found the engine stop button by mistake...

[forsberg]

five short blasts could also be the only signal whith which you can actually order someone what not to do

[john6767]

If you have not spotted it, the COLREGS diagram basically treats the junction like a rounderbout (when driving on the right of course). Does not sound like a bad aproach but i have at this location always taken the main line as having priority. I use the horn when joining the main line at any junction, but I do not use the horn when on the main line passing a junction, I guess I am wrong in that approach.

[Alan de Enfield]

So now everyone on this thread has seen the Col-Regs diagram and knows who has right of way (easy to remember :- "If you can see 'Red' you stop, if you can see 'Green' you go") but he problem is the other 30,000 boaters who couldn't give a rats-bum about learning the 'rules of the road'.

 

Self preservation and caution is the only true answer.

[mrsmelly]

I'm not sure that I've ever come across a junction in the UK without any road markings. I have in Marrakech at Jemaa el Fna which was quite exciting for those of a nervous disposition watching an elderly lady taking her cow across the road (she survived!!).

 

The difference with this junction is that rather than sitting looking at each other deciding who should go first, you don't actually realise you are in the junction until its too late (if you aren't taking full attention).

 

Hi

 

I wasnt meaning road markings its just that no one EVER has RIGHT of way on our road system though with the crap standard of driving today it seems many think they have.

Sometimes you have Priority or precedance bu never right of way.

 

Tim

[Paul C]

The col-regs have the answer

 

 

Nice picture, but is a bit meaningless in a "narrow channel", for which a canal definitely is.

 

 

(d)

A vessel shall not cross a narrow channel of

fairway if such crossing impedes the passage of a

vessel which can safely navigate only within such

channel or fairway. The latter vessel may use the

sound signal prescribed in Rule 34 (d) if in doubt

as to the intention of the crossing vessel.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Nice picture, but is a bit meaningless in a "narrow channel", for which a canal definitely is.

 

 

But at a canal crossroads ( junction) you are not crossing a 'narrow channel' - it is two 'channels' joining.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

 

Hi

 

I wasnt meaning road markings its just that no one EVER has RIGHT of way on our road system though with the crap standard of driving today it seems many think they have.

Sometimes you have Priority or precedance bu never right of way.

 

Tim

I accept that 'Right of Way' isn't perhaps the best term to have used bearing in mind the old poem:-

 

Here lies the body of George O'Day.

He died maintaining his right of way.

He was right, dead right as he rode along,

But he is just as dead as if he were wrong.

 

but at the crossroad I mention I don't suppose that there is any priority either, you just have to take care. Since the NML has been in situ and working since 1827 there obviously isn't a serious problem but in future travelling the Main Line I will be more aware of the possibility of boats coming out of Soho and Icknield loops at full tilt (well, 3mph anyway!). Same as everyone else I am always aware of the possibility of boats emerging from side cuts into the canal wherever I am but you would normally expect them to come out slowly whereas at Rotton Park Junction they may not have realised they are crossing the Main Line thinking they were just going under a couple of bridges.

[b0atman]

Whats wrong with flashing tunnel lights like people do with car headlights.

[Tony Dunkley]

Maybe you could ask CRT to paint Give Way lines on the water

 

 

The sad thing is , they would probably try.

[BruceinSanity]

What boggles me is the way you see boats with all/both the crew standing around at the back, rather than sending a look out to the front in these situations. I accept that single handers and working boats with a proper cratch can't do that, but that's not the case with your typical modern floating cottage.

 

Last time I was nearly T-boned was passing Barton Marina when a boat zoomed out of the marina, no one at the bow, both in the semitrad stern. Fortunately I'd already seen him and sounded — engine to hard astern to let me by before turning out.

 

Isn't there something in COLREGS about keeping a good lookout if we're being strictly correct?

[Sabcat]

As a partially deaf boater standing on top of an aircooled Lister, i seldom hear other boats' horns. i suspect I'm not the only one either! I just go slow where it looks dodgy and be prepared to hurl into into backwards if I need to.

 

As a boater who's partially deaf due to the air cooled Lister I stand on top of I don't hear much either. I'm also never in a hurry on a boat so I generally give way in bridge holes/ junctions that are even slightly marginal.