C&RT - A National trust for the waterways?? read on .....

[alan_fincher]

Oh God. Not another rant by Mick Fitzgibbon.

CRT can do nothing right in this man's book.

 

Quite, and frankly I tend to ignore those who have railed and ranted on through the BW to CRT transition, without contributing a single thing that might have improved things, looking constantly only for the negatives. I suspect CRT ignore them to.

 

Far more worrying, I think, is the loss of faith by those who have tried to be very positive about it all, but who find that often they no longer can.

 

No doubt that will simply get turned back on me and others as an accusation of naivety, but that would fail to acknowledge the degree to which people have contributed, and, as I have just suggested, actually achieved some successes.

 

In my view, if CRT really do care, (even slightly), they should look closely at the people who have supported them, but now feel let down, rather than caring too much about those who only ever wanted them to fail, and will be disappointed if they don't.

[PaulG]

 

Quite, and frankly I tend to ignore those who have railed and ranted on through the BW to CRT transition, without contributing a single thing that might have improved things, looking constantly only for the negatives. I suspect CRT ignore them to.

 

Far more worrying, I think, is the loss of faith by those who have tried to be very positive about it all, but who find that often they no longer can.

 

No doubt that will simply get turned back on me and others as an accusation of naivety, but that would fail to acknowledge the degree to which people have contributed, and, as I have just suggested, actually achieved some successes.

 

In my view, if CRT really do care, (even slightly), they should look closely at the people who have supported them, but now feel let down, rather than caring too much about those who only ever wanted them to fail, and will be disappointed if they don't.

You are quite right. CRT should indeed take note of disaffection and disillusionment among former supporters.

 

For an organisation that sets out to recruit "friends", they often seem a bit careless of the friends that they already have.

 

But none of this makes Mr Fitzgibbons' rants any more palatable...

[b0atman]

I have done two communications to CRT and have had no replies .

But I am only a licence paying boater.

[Arthur Marshall]

I emailed them about the T&Cs and got a reply within two days. Wasn't terribly clear, admittedly, but it was a reply!

[Jerra]

I emailed them about the T&Cs and got a reply within two days. Wasn't terribly clear, admittedly, but it was a reply!

Would I be right in thinking every forum member who has complaints about the T & Cs has contacted them telling them of their concerns. If not why not? They can't be expected to take notice if they aren't told there are concerns.

 

Before anyone asks yes I have contacted them and got a reply (including some questions about why I was taking the stance I was) in 24 hours.

[Phil.]

Would I be right in thinking every forum member who has complaints about the T & Cs has contacted them telling them of their concerns. If not why not? They can't be expected to take notice if they aren't told there are concerns.

 

Before anyone asks yes I have contacted them and got a reply (including some questions about why I was taking the stance I was) in 24 hours.

It might be helpful to know what you asked and more importantly what the C&RT reply was

[Jerra]

It might be helpful to know what you asked and more importantly what the C&RT reply was

I wasn't asking I was telling them my concerns over a very small part of the new T & Cs. Their reply was (whether you believe it or not is up to you) thanks for drawing it to their attention they were trying to take account of all points of view and as I said before some questions about why I was taking the stance I was. They also told me to send any more concerns I had.

[Tuscan]

I can understand where Cotswaldsman is coming from engaging with CRT on a regular basis is not for the faint hearted , but we have had some successes but it's a struggle . The best approach seems to be the approach that enables them to claim the PR space for the decision the appointment of the welfare officer and evidenced based changes to moorings would be an example although the latter was only agreed after they had pushed through the principal changes they wanted to make.

 

I remain on balance of the opinon that's it's better to continue to engage although some of my colleagues question the value.

[Sabcat]

I can understand where Cotswaldsman is coming from engaging with CRT on a regular basis is not for the faint hearted , but we have had some successes but it's a struggle . The best approach seems to be the approach that enables them to claim the PR space for the decision the appointment of the welfare officer and evidenced based changes to moorings would be an example although the latter was only agreed after they had pushed through the principal changes they wanted to make.

 

I remain on balance of the opinon that's it's better to continue to engage although some of my colleagues question the value.

 

I don't think there's any option but to engage with CRT it's only a question of how adversarial that engagement is.

[cotswoldsman]

I can understand where Cotswaldsman is coming from engaging with CRT on a regular basis is not for the faint hearted , but we have had some successes but it's a struggle . The best approach seems to be the approach that enables them to claim the PR space for the decision the appointment of the welfare officer and evidenced based changes to moorings would be an example although the latter was only agreed after they had pushed through the principal changes they wanted to make.

 

I remain on balance of the opinon that's it's better to continue to engage although some of my colleagues question the value.

Hate to think how many meetings all those great achievements took. Well actually only one might have been far easier just to go and have a pint with Richard Parry, I think where I went wrong was I only ever bought him tea or coffee when I had one to one meetings

[5thHorseman]

As licence holders we have no say in what CRT do .

The system has been set up to fail by the government .

A national trust style of charity would have been better or even letting the National trust have the canals and all assets (most of which BW where frantically selling off)

Any one talking to MPs pre election must take the opportunity to raise the subject of CRT being answerable.

 

I am not sure it is a good idea to let the National Trust get their hands on a canal again. The south stratford was given to the National Trust in 1964 who charged a toll to use it and by 1986 it was in such bad condition it was transferred th BWB who had to spend £1,5 million bringing back up to standard.

 

ETA:- your idea about talking to MP's/Candidates is an excellent one, as raising awareness of concerns at Westminster might not bring immediate results but if CRT was to go pear shaped even a basic awareness amongst MP's is worth having

Edited February 19, 2015 by 5thHorseman

[Laurence Hogg]

Just a word of thanks to those who have supported my years of trying to work with "the company" be it BWB. BW or CRT.

I started out with the thought that it was better to work with the controlling body than rant against it (like IWA did). This idea worked very well, Richard Hutchings then manager of Stoke Bruerne issued me with a letter which allowed my wife and I to enter BW premises and remove with permission artefact's for the collection at the museum. This worked very well and extended into the subsequent changes in curator and indeed main premises.

 

However,

Things got lost, things were not recorded and when many years later I asked for some of my lent items back nothing could be found except a few bits of paperwork. They actually at one point managed to lose the propeller off FMC steamer "Earl" which had been a major exhibit at SB museum.

Worse my FMC steamer boiler gauges were no where to be found. Was I compensated, given an apology, not in the slightest.

There record keeping was appalling. I remember going through BTC papers and drawings in the 1970's at SB museum, noting and in some cases copying what was there, a large amount of that is now missing.

 

Still undeterred I spent some years campaigning with Chris Coburn to highlight underused navigations and the case for PPG13 planning guidelines, we got the Lichfield Aqueduct built but now we have lost the River Dee branch due to BW/CRT lack of care, even today PPG13 is flouted and CRT takes no notice.

 

Still undeterred, I decided to "promote" the forthcoming Trust with our media sales, in 2009 we started sending out postage paid return slips advertising for interest in the new trust, these were in all of our DVD programmes sold through National distributors, when I asked how many were being returned I never got an answer. But heck someone must have took interest... or did they ? we will never know.

 

We then were still undeterred, so acquiring "Barnet" we set to work with Dean Davies to survey various parts of the BCN and surrounding waterways for dredging, 2009-11 was a busy period "Canalscape-BCN" was in action most weeks, sometimes surveying, other times doing minor remedial work,but active we were.

 

Still undeterred, in fact quite excited we carried on,

 

So then arrives the dawn of CRT, great we thought , here is a new tomorrow.

We have a fully equipped ready to go Work boat, at least 20 crew and can turn out within hours, CRT have given us a nice grace & favour mooring, Maintenance Work Boat licence and we are all very happy.

 

2011 arrives, the boat is resplendent, we polish the brass, then polish the brass, then polish the brass, where's the work?

We ask what can we do, "we'll get back to you", we ask again, its the same, we ask again and again, nothing.

 

Undeterred comes 2013, its "Boating buddies" time. So we get involved. For each outing I prepare a itenary showing what was where, what remains (bugger all) and the main features of the cruise.

So off we go, well what a waste of time, the people who did turn up learned or took in bugger all, you can see this from the trash they write in Waterfront, some didn't turn up at all and others jumped ship to "go shopping".

What a farce.

The only guy that really took in what was on offer was Simon Salem who thought some of our suggestions were spot on, sadly he is now leaving and I guess frustration may be one of the reasons.

 

So still undeterred we carried on, but nothing came our way, persuaded by Simon and others not to "throw the towel in" we decide this Xmas to have "Barnet" refurbished and identified work put right, so in January a freshly prepared work boat was presented to CRT for working alongside them as volunteers.

 

So what has happened?

NOTHING.

 

Despite asking (almost pleading) for work nothing has come our way, even Simon Salem has tried to find the boat some work and up to now failed.

 

But CRT are happy to use "contractors", so we sit on our wharf in the middle of Wolverhampton, we polish the brass, keep the boat tidy and do NOTHING.

 

After 43 years of volunteering my patience has run out.

 

I live very near the Severn Valley Railway where everyday volunteers relay the track, repair rolling stock, brick lay, build new locos, repair locos, take on apprentices, do the paperwork, do the accounting, run the buffet, run the shop and more important than all THEY RUN THE RAILWAY.

 

CRT take notice you are so out of the field its untrue.

 

What's the point of supporting CRT?

 

You cannot be a member, just chuck a few quid every month into the bottomless pit of despair or "volunteer"..... (yes we have been trying that line)

 

Look at Ruth Ruderham's public profile, is she well known to CRT supporters? What about Caroline Killeavy, these main players are virtually unknown, there are now so many tiers of useless, meaningless jobs it beggars belief. They couldn't get ABC right.

They are in charge of promoting Navigations, not cycle races, bats and bugs.

 

Look at licensing, why not start from scratch with a new system using modern ANPR systems to monitor movement, for Gods sake they only have 2200 miles and 32000 boats its small by todays standards.

 

BW was at time awful, disgusting and dire, but you could handle it and above all its name favoured respect, it was BRITISH Waterways, nationally accepted, flying the British brand and not a obscure C&RT which implies nothing.

 

God knows where its going but what is true is that true enthusiasts who have been there for many years are losing interest, this not only includes people like me but others within the organisation, they decay is on all sides now.

 

So undeterred what shall we do? If no work becomes available we shall abandon our volunteer operation and I will sell my boat, after 43 years the writing is in big letters on the wall.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Laurence Hogg

[jenlyn]

Don't know what to say to that. I'd like to find the words to say "keep plodding", but I know that every word you speak is true.

I just hope some eventually see what's happening and take the time and effort to ensure that CRT don't completely wreck a part of our history, and turn it into a bloody Disney park.

[5thHorseman]

Laurence.

I hope you don't mind but I have sent the following e-mail to C&RT

 

Title:- Volunteer workboat unused in Wolverhampton

 

I wonder if you can help answer the question as to why Laurence Hogg's volunteer workboat "Barnet" in Wolverhampton is not used by C&RT. It has a workboat licence.

I know from Laurence's postings on Canalworld forum that he is most disillusioned and considering giving up and selling to boat, which would, I feel, be a shame and not a good advert for you in the boating community when you are making an effort to get people to volunteer

xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx
Nb Sir James

517737

 

Not much maybe but it might help. If I get a reply I will let you know

[Laurence Hogg]

Laurence.

I hope you don't mind but I have sent the following e-mail to C&RT

 

Title:- Volunteer workboat unused in Wolverhampton

 

I wonder if you can help answer the question as to why Laurence Hogg's volunteer workboat "Barnet" in Wolverhampton is not used by C&RT. It has a workboat licence.

 

I know from Laurence's postings on Canalworld forum that he is most disillusioned and considering giving up and selling to boat, which would, I feel, be a shame and not a good advert for you in the boating community when you are making an effort to get people to volunteer

xxxxxxx xxxxxxxx

Nb Sir James

517737

 

Not much maybe but it might help. If I get a reply I will let you know

Thank you.

A email very similar to my posting has been sent to Richard Parry, I will see what he has to say, it is an absurd situation, we quoted, went out and surveyed the work at Coseley tunnel, prepared a working method for CRT and then they gave it to contractors, that's just one example recently.

[Tuscan]

Just an off the wall thought Lawrence , but CRT seems to struggle to make a decision without the Partnerships being involved , I wonder if you made the local partnership aware , there might be some bluster , a degree of bull followed by a word in someone's ear.

[Laurence Hogg]

Just an off the wall thought Lawrence , but CRT seems to struggle to make a decision without the Partnerships being involved , I wonder if you made the local partnership aware , there might be some bluster , a degree of bull followed by a word in someone's ear.

 

Hi Tuscan, The local partnership is fully aware but cannot do a thing, Peter Mathews (chairman) is disgusted but powerless. One questions what value these partnerships have, they have good intentions but are toothless.

 

Its not our situation which is the centre of this thread, I could give you examples of incompetence from other areas, the whole situation is a farce, CRT isn't making a headway and something needs to change and change quickly.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Laurence Hogg

[b0atman]

tell your prospective candidates it might sink in before we are all sunk or sat on the bottom with no water.

[bassplayer]

I know this is going to sound a bit off the wall but is there any way 'boaters' could take over the running from CRT. It was mentioned somewhere how CRT effectively have a monopoly as there is no competition. What would happen if the government run it more on a contract basis and allowed bids from competition say every 5 years? A bit like how the various train operating companies can bid against each other.

 

There has got to be a wealth of experience out there and a lot of it would be voluntary. Maybe just a silly pipe dream,...

[mango]

I know this is going to sound a bit off the wall but is there any way 'boaters' could take over the running from CRT. It was mentioned somewhere how CRT effectively have a monopoly as there is no competition. What would happen if the government run it more on a contract basis and allowed bids from competition say every 5 years? A bit like how the various train operating companies can bid against each other.

 

There has got to be a wealth of experience out there and a lot of it would be voluntary. Maybe just a silly pipe dream,...

That might be a tiny bit ambitious but boaters could help by getting involved with the Canal Adoption scheme. https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/news/adopt-a-canal

[mango]

I know this is going to sound a bit off the wall but is there any way 'boaters' could take over the running from CRT. It was mentioned somewhere how CRT effectively have a monopoly as there is no competition. What would happen if the government run it more on a contract basis and allowed bids from competition say every 5 years? A bit like how the various train operating companies can bid against each other.

 

There has got to be a wealth of experience out there and a lot of it would be voluntary. Maybe just a silly pipe dream,...

Another possibility would be to take over the running of a waterway, as IWA has done for the Chelmer & Blackwater Canal via its subsidiary, Essex Waterways.

[Phoenix_V]

Another possibility would be to take over the running of a waterway, as IWA has done for the Chelmer & Blackwater Canal via its subsidiary, Essex Waterways.

strangely IWA seem to run their waterway with no subsidies and no complaints (that I have seen on this forum at any rate)

possibly a bit ambitious for them to take over the crt waterways but crt could do worse than pick up a few tips from the "amateurs"

[b0atman]

what about zero hour contracts for the directors ?

[Laurence Hogg]

I know this is going to sound a bit off the wall but is there any way 'boaters' could take over the running from CRT. It was mentioned somewhere how CRT effectively have a monopoly as there is no competition. What would happen if the government run it more on a contract basis and allowed bids from competition say every 5 years? A bit like how the various train operating companies can bid against each other.

 

There has got to be a wealth of experience out there and a lot of it would be voluntary. Maybe just a silly pipe dream,...

 

Damn good idea with a lot of positives, no different to volunteers running private railways and the like. There's more expertise in this forum than within the whole of CRT for a start but God knows how to achieve it, maybe wait for the inevitable CRT failure?

[bassplayer]

 

Damn good idea with a lot of positives, no different to volunteers running private railways and the like. There's more expertise in this forum than within the whole of CRT for a start but God knows how to achieve it, maybe wait for the inevitable CRT failure?

Could the IWA be the answer then?