Potters cabin bike locker?

[FadeToScarlet]

The simplest way is probably to have a permanent metal skinned cratch on top of the tug deck, with a stout ring bolt inside to lock the bike to. Then you just wheel the bike in, plug it in and charge it- and it gives useful space for storing coal etc. in the winter, BBQ etc. in summer. A quick release front wheel would take up less space.

 

If you had an 8' tug deck with a 4' cratch at the front, there'd be an open area of 4' between the metal part and the front bulkhead- roll back the cloths, have an easily moveable top plank, and you've got a sheltered patio area. A longer tug deck would give more space.

[svetlovska]

Hey, Fadetoscarlet, I like the sound of that! 8' was what I was 'budgeting' for the space anyway, and you're right, the steel/tarp thing could hit all the bases. Even so... In your experience, what is the maximum practical height from as low into the floor of the boat as I can get, to the height of the cabin? I'm still thinking the best way to store the bike is vertical, as it will eat up less horizontal length that way, and can push further forward into where the bow narrows, and beyond the point where the bed below the tug deck can't follow.

 

So, just thinking aloud here: my 'Potters Cabin' would actually be the steel cratch, in the triangular shape? So I'd put lockable steel doors on that, maybe a security ring inside too, with a hinged metal plank running between the steel cratch and the end of the saloon to take a tarp in winter...

 

I'd need something like a drop of about 6' from the top/roof of the enclosed steel cratch to the floor of the boat to hang the bike. I know a typical internal headroom in the habitable portion seems to be around 6'2 -6'4" - is it feasible/advisable to go any lower in what would otherwise be the well deck area? I'm imagining a drop down forward of the end of the 4' or so of tug deck, so the back wheel of the bike would then actually hang down as low as possible below the level of the tug deck once the bike is vertical. I might need an angled notch in the front edge of the tug deck to allow/guide the back wheel of the bike down to the actual floor, and enough room in front of the cratch to then let me use the cantilevered Wheelylift gadget to pull the bike up... (They make heavy duty ones just for pedelecs, I checked.) hmmm... That's a good thought, Fadetoscarlet, thanks.

[alan_fincher]

It's perfectly feasible to put a fore cabin on to a tug style boat, but you wouldn't want it to stand as high as the rest of the superstructure, I'm not sure how well a streamlined shape would sit with the other lines of the boat, remember that at some future point you may wish to sell and anything " quirky " could deter potential buyers.

^^^^^^^^^

This!

 

If you put a fore cabin that is as high as the main cabin, the boat will look extremely unbalanced, and, I would say in the eyes of many enthusiasts of a "tug" arrangement probably downright ugly. I wouldn't want to try selling it on.

 

One of the advantages of a tug with an unobstructed long fore deck is that you can see the front of the boat. One of the disadvantages of a cabin that is full height right to the front, with no tug or well deck in front, is that you have far less idea from the steering position where the front actually is.

[svetlovska]

Hi, Alan,

 

Thanks for that. I would still imagine a small (3-4') deck area at the tip of the bow, beyond the steel cratch. Following Fadetoscarlet's suggestion above, I'm thinking something that ties together a triangular steel cratch and tarps that would follow the same angles back from that across the open tug deck behind. That being so, there would be no need for a separate lower Potters Cabin at all, the steel triangular cratch area replaces it, so working from bow stern wards it would look like the first two sections of the Tewkesbury shown in the picture above, from the tunnel light back to the end of the tarped area. At that point though, the section would revert the usual slightly 'tumble homed' shape of a 'standard' narrowboat. Whilst I am keen not to make an unsaleable pig of a boat, I am also intending to live on this for a decade or so, so utility has to negotiate with aesthetics, and anything major I need - such as a secure and easy place to store my sole off boat transport - has to be built into the design at the outset, as I will only have funds to try this once. If I wanted something standard, after all, I could save myself a lot of money by buying any second hand boat that didn't frighten the horses.

 

I also need to say I have no particular notions of 'authenticity' - I'm looking at a tug design not because I am an enthusiast for idiosyncratic engines, rivets and the rest of it (though good vibes to those who do appreciate those things), but principally because it seems to offer a way to combine the kind of outside storage/sitting you might get on a cruiser style boat with a saloon that can do double duty as a bedroom, all in a relatively short 57 feet.

[cuthound]

Yes, I would do. I wouldn't rule out gas at this stage just because someone's said "gas-free" and it sounds like something you'd want to be rid of.

 

I've been on this forum for nearly 10 years and I don't think I've ever heard of a gas explosion on a canal boat (really hope I'm not speaking too soon!) I'm sure it's happened but it's very rare. On the other hand, flat batteries are a common occurrence.

I've been boating for over 40 years and can only recall one gas explosion. That was on a shared boat, where the numpty shareholder thought he would change the gas bottle before it ran out of gas. He left the bottle with the gas tap open, on the semitrad stern which filled the boat with gas. His wife turned on a light and BOOM. Luckily no one was seriously hurt.

 

So in my opinion gas is perfectly safe on board, providing you take sensible precautions such as ensuring gas is turned off when changing bottles, check for leaks after changing bottles, periodic checks of flexible hoses etc.

 

If you are worried about gas leaking into the bilge, then you can fit an LPG alarm there.

[cuthound]

Blimey, did that boat go to the Black Sea? I didn't hear about that.

Yes a guy whose name I forget (Nick someone?) got Banks's brewery to sponsor his expedition. He had a working pair built, "Unspoilt by Progress 1 & 2, and set off for the Black Sea.

 

Near the end of the trip he sank the butty as he entered a lock. His story was in Waterways World magazine, presumably in 1992. Very entertaining as I recall.

[MtB]

I've been boating for over 40 years and can only recall one gas explosion. That was on a shared boat, where the numpty shareholder thought he would change the gas bottle before it ran out of gas. He left the bottle with the gas tap open, on the semitrad stern which filled the boat with gas. His wife turned on a light and BOOM. Luckily no one was seriously hurt.

 

So in my opinion gas is perfectly safe on board, providing you take sensible precautions such as ensuring gas is turned off when changing bottles, check for leaks after changing bottles, periodic checks of flexible hoses etc.

 

If you are worried about gas leaking into the bilge, then you can fit an LPG alarm there.

 

 

But, but, as I never tire of saying on here... The main risk with gas on a boat is CO poisoning, not explosion.

 

There have been lots of deaths on boats caused by gas, the vast majority from CO poisoning.

 

Rob@BSSoffice will produce some statisitics if he sees this, perhaps.

 

 

MtB

[Barry]

Yes a guy whose name I forget (Nick someone?) got Banks's brewery to sponsor his expedition. He had a working pair built, "Unspoilt by Progress 1 & 2, and set off for the Black Sea.

 

Near the end of the trip he sank the butty as he entered a lock. His story was in Waterways World magazine, presumably in 1992. Very entertaining as I recall.

 

Nick Sanders

[cuthound]

Nick Sanders

Thanks Barry.

[Stilllearning]

Just a couple of thoughts about your design ideas, I hope they help :

If you can see some way of building the locker down into the tug deck, with perhaps a hand winch to raise and lower the bike, it will give you, and any future purchaser, the "trad" lines that make selling easier.

On the fuel for cooking and heating subject, you say you will not have access to wood, however, as you go boating you will be passing unending quantities of it, and if the boat is designed not to be able to use it, I am fairly sure you will soon wish it was! Free fuel is the best sort...

[alan_fincher]

 

But, but, as I never tire of saying on here... The main risk with gas on a boat is CO poisoning, not explosion.

 

There have been lots of deaths on boats caused by gas, the vast majority from CO poisoning.

 

Rob@BSSoffice will produce some statisitics if he sees this, perhaps.

 

A few years back I tried repeatedly to get Rob and the BSS to produce stats on this, but don't think I ever got very close.

 

In the absence of facts, it is hard to reach many conclusions, but my distinct impression is that it is not gas fired appliances that contribute to the highest numbers of CO fatalities on boats.

 

I suspect more are down to solid fuel stoves, although inappropriate use of generators, (or even inappropriately modified generators) seem to figure quite a lot as well.

 

Probably just the basic blocking of low level ventilation, either very directly, by stuffing with something, or taping something over, or just use of heavy curtains has also figured quite often. I suppose you can then choose to look at the tragedy in one of two ways. Was tre actual cause deliberate or accidental blocking of ventilation, or was it it the appliance that no longer had the required levels of ventilation?

 

I'd still love the BSs to publish stats that allow us to make informed choices. You achieve nothing by getting rid of LPG fridges, for example, if it then ends up with people running petrol generators under covers on their decks to supply power for electric fridges, and it is the inappropriate generator use that kills them!

[rasputin]

Why an "electric" bike?

[Tacet]

If you are not having forward facing doors (and the bed under the tug deck might suggest this), the cabin could be carried forward over the tugdeck by the width of the bike, to make a small shed. You would need to think carefully about suitable access.

[David Mack]

A few years back I tried repeatedly to get Rob and the BSS to produce stats on this, but don't think I ever got very close.

 

 

I'd still love the BSs to publish stats that allow us to make informed choices. You achieve nothing by getting rid of LPG fridges, for example, if it then ends up with people running petrol generators under covers on their decks to supply power for electric fridges, and it is the inappropriate generator use that kills them!

Are you aware of the figures published in the MAIB report on the Arniston?

 

1.15.2 BSS data

The BSS records data of CO related incidents concerning boats on inland waterways and also on coastal boats having similar characteristics to inland craft.

Table 3 shows data for a 20 year period, up to February 2014, in which 30 boat related CO fatalities were recorded, the largest number of fatalities was caused by

portable petrol generators.

 

Source of CO Fatalities

Portable petrol generator 9

LPG Appliance 8

Solid/multi fuel appliance 6

Petrol outboard engine 5

Oil fired(diesel) stove 1

Portable diesel generator 1

Table 3: BSS data – CO fatalities

This suggests that generators and LPG appliances are the biggest CO risk.

[svetlovska]

Hello everyone and thank you all for the numerous in forum and pm comments I've had. Lots of food for thought, and hopefully I will be shortly arranging to see an example tug design in the flesh. I have rethought the gas issue. I do want multiple redundant systems, and I had hoped to avoid the faff of gas safety checks, but I can see how most people (including future purchasers) expect it, and I can see how it beats alternatives for a quick cuppa or a bowlful of hot water in summer when the stove isn't an option.I do totally get the co2 risk, and alrms and floor and ceiling ventilation will all be present and correct.

 

Re my original bike storage issue: Some interesting ideas, and I've seen some hand operated hoists which could manage an in deck option if I have a suitable anchor point above. Re why an electric bike? Because they have come on brilliantly in recent years re weight and range. I've ridden them and they turn distances and hills you have to be a keen athlete to enjoy into doable things. Remember I don't drive, a bike and trailer is it for me hauling groceries etc - so electric assist with an 40 mile range is a no brainer.

 

So,a couple of quick qs to refine my thinking: what is the maximum likely height/depth from a tug deck which is flush with the gunwales to the lowest point below it can reach? Can it go to the baseplate, or does the entire bottom of the boat need ballasting and a bilge space with a floor above? Also, how far back from the bow is it to full boat width? Or to it it another way, how much of my 57 foot will be given up to a narrowing toward the bow down from 6'10" ? What is my furthest point forward to enjoy a full 6' 10 wide? Thanks!

Edited February 10, 2015 by svetlovska

[peterboat]

Are you aware of the figures published in the MAIB report on the Arniston?

 

1.15.2 BSS data

The BSS records data of CO related incidents concerning boats on inland waterways and also on coastal boats having similar characteristics to inland craft.

Table 3 shows data for a 20 year period, up to February 2014, in which 30 boat related CO fatalities were recorded, the largest number of fatalities was caused by

portable petrol generators.

 

Source of CO Fatalities

Portable petrol generator 9

LPG Appliance 8

Solid/multi fuel appliance 6

Petrol outboard engine 5

Oil fired(diesel) stove 1

Portable diesel generator 1

Table 3: BSS data – CO fatalities

This suggests that generators and LPG appliances are the biggest CO risk.

Cheers very interesting my oil fired bubble seems very safe now

 

Peter

[alan_fincher]

Are you aware of the figures published in the MAIB report on the Arniston?

 

1.15.2 BSS data

The BSS records data of CO related incidents concerning boats on inland waterways and also on coastal boats having similar characteristics to inland craft.

Table 3 shows data for a 20 year period, up to February 2014, in which 30 boat related CO fatalities were recorded, the largest number of fatalities was caused by

portable petrol generators.

 

Source of CO Fatalities

Portable petrol generator 9

LPG Appliance 8

Solid/multi fuel appliance 6

Petrol outboard engine 5

Oil fired(diesel) stove 1

Portable diesel generator 1

Table 3: BSS data – CO fatalities

This suggests that generators and LPG appliances are the biggest CO risk.

 

No I hadn't seen that until now.

 

It kind of agrees with my view that there is little point in engineering out LPG, if it results in people trying to generate electricity in dangerous ways instead!

 

So just over a quarter of all incidents are LPG related then, and with 30 CO fatalities overall in 20 years, that seems to imply a CO related boat death (for classes of boat listed) averaging every 8 months, but one related to LPG appliances "only" every 2.5 years.

 

Given that many of these will be down to someone doing something inherently unsound or unsafe, (even if that is just not having proper ventilation, and checking regularly for clear burning flames), then I would conclude that the CO risk associated with properly maintained LPG appliances on boats is really not very high at all.

Cheers very interesting my oil fired bubble seems very safe now

 

Peter

 

Could just mean a lot less people have oil fired stoves than have gas appliances!

[Sir Percy]

... full time solo continuous cruising. I will be using an electric assisted mountain bike (pedelec) pulling a cycle trailer as my primary off boat transport. ...

 

 

...Re why an electric bike? Because they have come on brilliantly in recent years re weight and range. I've ridden them and they turn distances and hills you have to be a keen athlete to enjoy into doable things. Remember I don't drive, a bike and trailer is it for me hauling groceries etc - so electric assist with an 40 mile range is a no brainer...

 

Charging off the inverter?