svetlovska

Thanks all, very helpful, I'll be keeping the generator under the rear deck and the cylinder with the other cylinders in the bow gas locker when not in use with towpath operation and a stout chain!

Hi, I'm a newbie so please be gentle. My recently purchased boat has a Victron Energy Phoenix Multiplus battery management system which automatically switches from shore power to Inverter, and manages battery charging for me. I also have solar panels integrated into this, topping up the leisure batteries. At the moment I am marina based, and just plug in the shore power and that's it. Next year I will be continuously cruising, so am looking at getting a Propane driven Honda EU20i suitcase generator to top up the leisure batteries on days when I am not cruising and the alternator isn't running. I'd rather do this than run the main engine just to charge . Is this simply a matter of taking the 240v output of this generator and feeding it into my shore power socket via a suitable cable, or is there more to it than that?

Problem (apparently) solved! - Thanks all for the replies and that, err, illuminating discussion about polarity, which I must confess was above my head. Very fortunately for me a logically minded ex-engineer man friend of mine decided to visit today, and took me through that isolate-one-thing-at-a-time-thing. We didn't get very far before he pointed at my in-line galvanic isolator cable which has sat happily connecting between the dockside power post and my mains cable for the past three months, and asked: "Have you tried it without that?" I harrumphed and spluttered a bit, and then admitted I'd overlooked it in all my other frantic day and a half of wild stabs in the dark. So he unplugged it, connected the mains cable directly to the power post, switched both the 'power in' and 'power out' breakers in the mains box to 'on' (no red 'reverse polarity' light, so I guess I was wrong about that too) and, hey presto, everything was back to normal, live 240v sockets from shore power as usual, and the batteries now (at 10.30 pm, 5 hours on) on 'float' trickle charge after a brief bout of 'absorption'. I've taken pictures of the switch positions for my own future reference in case of future difficulty. So: I'm out £20 for a booked support phone call to Victron dealers onboardenergydirect.co.uk which I haven't had yet and now apparently don't need, but, hey, some learning has occurred anyway. I dunno what witchcraft affected the galvanic isolator lead, but for now I'm happy to let it be. At least it means I can put the stove on again! Hopefully anyone else with this weirdness in their life might find this post and try swapping out the mains cable or any extensions to it before trying anything else. I am *very* relieved. Thanks again all for your contributions.

I have no technical expertise whatsoever, so please be gentle with me! I'm attaching pictures of this in case it helps. I am a newbie liveaboard narrowboater in a marina in Milton Keynes. It's a great boat but for some reason the previous owners loved their shore power, so although I have 12v lights and pumps, the fridge, tv etc are all 240v. Worse, I recently discovered that the Morso Squirrel stove back boiler also relies on 240v for it's pump. No 240v = no heating as I can't operate the stove without the pump running. For the last three months my Victron Phoenix Multiplus 12/3000/120 unit has been left switched to 'on' and happily showing 'Mains' and 'Float' lights on the left 'Charger' side of the front panel, and 'inverter' only away from the dock, as you'd expect. Yesterday, something tripped out the breaker on the power post my boat plugs into, and the breaker in the main shore power switch box (? - it's labelled 'Mains' and looks like a domestic fuse box, see attached.) I was not running anything on mains at the time. The 'mains' box has a green light labelled 'Mains On' up top, and inside the fuse panel, red and green Lights, and breakers labelled Power In, Power Out and Immersion heater. Labels inside the box say : 'Red on reverse polarity' and 'Green mains on'. My recollection from earlier days when everything was working fine was that the red light was usually on. I assume that flipping the breakers up is turning them on? As is the case for the power post I connect to. The Victron panel is split between Charger and Inverter sides. In normal operation, I leave the central switch to 'on', and the Charger side shows Mains On and Float. In this state, all the 240v sockets are live, pulling power from the shore. The Inverter side only comes on when I disconnect shore power to cruise, as you'd expect. On resetting the post breaker, I discovered that as soon as I attempted to also reset the breaker, the Victron flipped from the 'On' setting, where it usually displayed mains in and 'float', to 'Inverter' with no signs of life from the 'Charger' side of the Victron front panel, and the post breaker tripped again. Here's the thing: if I switch mains power to the boat off using the 'Power Out' breaker in my mains box, the Victron shows mains input and starts charging as normal (but there is obviously no power to my 240v sockets.) If I switch the Power Out breaker on, it immediately trips the shore post breaker, and mains power shuts off at the mains box (judging from the light going out up top). Then the inverter kicks in, and all my 240v sockets work, but are doing so obviously by pulling power from the battery bank to do it, which, worse, are receiving no top up charge, so this is not sustainable. My 12v gear (lights, pumps etc) are unaffected by any of this, and continue to work in either state. From this I deduce it is something to do with the automatic switching from mains to battery power by the Victron, or between the mains box and the Victron, caused when I attempt to supply mains power to the boat. Do you have any suggestions, or a contact for a service engineer in the Milton Keynes I can pay to resolve the issue? As I live on the boat and can't operate my fridge or my heating without mains power, this is quite urgent.

I have a newly purchased second hand Narrowboat moored in Milton Keynes. It has a Morso Squirrel stove with a back boiler hooked up to two rads. I haven't used it yet, have no instructions and don't even know if it is pumped, where from, or how to get to anything vital. Can anyone recommend a suitable engineer or yard near MK who can check the system out for me before I blow myself up?

Does anyone know of someone who can install a composting toilet professionally? I have zero DIY skills, but would also like to stop using and if possible remove the pump out on the second hand boat I recently bought.

Hi. I've just bought my first boat, secondhand, moored in Milton Keynes. It's well served with 240v sockets and has a Victron box of tricks handling switching from shore power to inverter or battery, but no 12v or USB sockets. It has a mains only fridge, TV, and washing machine, and seems set up for marina life, not off line cruising. Can anyone recommend a good marine electrician in the MK area who could install some 12v and USB sockets for me, so I can swap out the main gadgets for battery powered alternatives?

http://www.engelfridges.co.uk

This is the 12 v fridge freezer I had in mind. http://www.engelaustralia.com.au/2products_details.asp?pid=11&productid=21627 And yes, twin tub camping style washing machine. No hairdryers, irons, toasters...

Trust me. It'll have the cleverest damn power management that money can buy!!

Thanks, that's good to know. Lucky I'll be a continuous cruiser then

Thanks Mike. So: ballpark, obviously, but how many hours a week should I expect to have to run the engine in the winter to keep the batteries in good shape?

Calorifier on moving days, back boiler and/or gasring on non moving days. A navy shower once a week.

Fess up? Um - I already did? Laptop; wifi hub; Cello 12 v tv/DVD; low power led lights; 12v fridge/freezer; kindle; mobile phone; usb rechargeable pushbike lights; radio; small washing machine to be operated only whilst under way. I'm planning on 400 to 600 w of solar panel, the power concern is that I will be moored up off line for up to a fortnight at a time, so I want to minimise running the main engine just to charge batteries. Thanks Mike. I will be retired to so no working days. Most of my web surfing is via iPad or mobile phone, 2-3 hours a day, similar use of the tv.

Hi. Good to know about modern Beta 43s. The boat is a 2009 build, if that helps - I'll find out more on my next visit in a few days time. Frugal: I don't know, this is a first time for me, I'm aiming to do whatever I can to avoid using the inverter, running most gadgets off USB rechargeable batteries (eg laptop, music system), but I still expect power to be an issue, so I'm trying to prepare for the worst!

Hi Paul, thanks for the prompt response. I'm expecting something of the order of £5,000 for a built in diesel option, maybe one of the Fischer Panda cocooned units, but retrofitting a travel pack, if possible, and upgrading the power management electronics to make best use of it would probably be the better/space saving option, if that is possible. Good thought re the engine model number - I'll check it out. Still interested in any other ideas...

Hi all, apologies if answers to this have been done to death already but I am shortly to buy a secondhand boat which looks great for my continuous cruising plans in every regard but power generation. Of course I will be fitting as many solar panels as I can cram onto the roof, and my power needs are modest (low voltage lighting, 12 volt tv, no mains fridges or microwaves etc), but still, I aim to be off line as much as possible, so I'm considering my other power options. The boat has a Beta Marine 43 with PRM Gearbox (whatever one of them is), and an inverter, but nothing else. Space is, obviously, tight, but I don't want to lug a petrol genny around if I can help it. How feasible is it to retrofit a travel pack, additional alternator, standalone built in diesel generator or other option? Any ideas gratefully received.

Thanks all, very useful. I'm not trying to duck VAT or even get it done on the cheap, and I surely don't want to project manage it, but I'm just keen to ensure that some very specific, expensive items I want in the design to be unequivocally mine if I pay for them and there should be any subsequent difficulty with the builder. (a composting toilet, stainless steel double glazed portholes, an Italien bed/desk, a Japanese sitz bath, etc). I can only afford to do this once, and I need to get it right. Thanks again.

Hi. A VAT, finance question. I'm a newbie currently researching a new build 57 foot liveaboard continuous cruiser trad to start construction in 2017, and wondered if anyone knows the answer to this: having read horror stories about builders going bust or even sadly dying mid way through construction, I fully intend to use the industry contract, a boat surveyor, staged payments etc for the boat shell, but what are the pros and cons of me purchasing major items for the fit out (engine, stoves, bathroom) direct, and arranging delivery to the outfitters, over just specifying what I want, and letting them source the stuff? Are there any VAT advantages/disadvantages? Presumably I have to pay VAT, but they don't? But I'm thinking that if I buy the stuff direct, in the event of calamity there should be no issues of ownership. Anyone got any thoughts on this? Thanks!

Hello everyone and thank you all for the numerous in forum and pm comments I've had. Lots of food for thought, and hopefully I will be shortly arranging to see an example tug design in the flesh. I have rethought the gas issue. I do want multiple redundant systems, and I had hoped to avoid the faff of gas safety checks, but I can see how most people (including future purchasers) expect it, and I can see how it beats alternatives for a quick cuppa or a bowlful of hot water in summer when the stove isn't an option.I do totally get the co2 risk, and alrms and floor and ceiling ventilation will all be present and correct. Re my original bike storage issue: Some interesting ideas, and I've seen some hand operated hoists which could manage an in deck option if I have a suitable anchor point above. Re why an electric bike? Because they have come on brilliantly in recent years re weight and range. I've ridden them and they turn distances and hills you have to be a keen athlete to enjoy into doable things. Remember I don't drive, a bike and trailer is it for me hauling groceries etc - so electric assist with an 40 mile range is a no brainer. So,a couple of quick qs to refine my thinking: what is the maximum likely height/depth from a tug deck which is flush with the gunwales to the lowest point below it can reach? Can it go to the baseplate, or does the entire bottom of the boat need ballasting and a bilge space with a floor above? Also, how far back from the bow is it to full boat width? Or to it it another way, how much of my 57 foot will be given up to a narrowing toward the bow down from 6'10" ? What is my furthest point forward to enjoy a full 6' 10 wide? Thanks!

Hi, Alan, Thanks for that. I would still imagine a small (3-4') deck area at the tip of the bow, beyond the steel cratch. Following Fadetoscarlet's suggestion above, I'm thinking something that ties together a triangular steel cratch and tarps that would follow the same angles back from that across the open tug deck behind. That being so, there would be no need for a separate lower Potters Cabin at all, the steel triangular cratch area replaces it, so working from bow stern wards it would look like the first two sections of the Tewkesbury shown in the picture above, from the tunnel light back to the end of the tarped area. At that point though, the section would revert the usual slightly 'tumble homed' shape of a 'standard' narrowboat. Whilst I am keen not to make an unsaleable pig of a boat, I am also intending to live on this for a decade or so, so utility has to negotiate with aesthetics, and anything major I need - such as a secure and easy place to store my sole off boat transport - has to be built into the design at the outset, as I will only have funds to try this once. If I wanted something standard, after all, I could save myself a lot of money by buying any second hand boat that didn't frighten the horses. I also need to say I have no particular notions of 'authenticity' - I'm looking at a tug design not because I am an enthusiast for idiosyncratic engines, rivets and the rest of it (though good vibes to those who do appreciate those things), but principally because it seems to offer a way to combine the kind of outside storage/sitting you might get on a cruiser style boat with a saloon that can do double duty as a bedroom, all in a relatively short 57 feet.

Hey, Fadetoscarlet, I like the sound of that! 8' was what I was 'budgeting' for the space anyway, and you're right, the steel/tarp thing could hit all the bases. Even so... In your experience, what is the maximum practical height from as low into the floor of the boat as I can get, to the height of the cabin? I'm still thinking the best way to store the bike is vertical, as it will eat up less horizontal length that way, and can push further forward into where the bow narrows, and beyond the point where the bed below the tug deck can't follow. So, just thinking aloud here: my 'Potters Cabin' would actually be the steel cratch, in the triangular shape? So I'd put lockable steel doors on that, maybe a security ring inside too, with a hinged metal plank running between the steel cratch and the end of the saloon to take a tarp in winter... I'd need something like a drop of about 6' from the top/roof of the enclosed steel cratch to the floor of the boat to hang the bike. I know a typical internal headroom in the habitable portion seems to be around 6'2 -6'4" - is it feasible/advisable to go any lower in what would otherwise be the well deck area? I'm imagining a drop down forward of the end of the 4' or so of tug deck, so the back wheel of the bike would then actually hang down as low as possible below the level of the tug deck once the bike is vertical. I might need an angled notch in the front edge of the tug deck to allow/guide the back wheel of the bike down to the actual floor, and enough room in front of the cratch to then let me use the cantilevered Wheelylift gadget to pull the bike up... (They make heavy duty ones just for pedelecs, I checked.) hmmm... That's a good thought, Fadetoscarlet, thanks.

Hmm. Might be able to do something with this though... http://www.wheelylift.com

Thunderbird 2 stylee? I love the idea! But... Sounding a bit more complicated than the gussied up shed I started out with. (Plus don't forget I'm intending to have most of the space below the tug deck occupied by the bed...) Still: something to think about. Maybe a reverse version of those lift up racks they have at railway stations...

Thanks, Blackrose, and Starman? I'll try Nantwich, but you're right, a lift sounds a little too rich for my blood (and purse)!