Camp Kitchen In The Hold

[cheshire~rose]

I would be very interested to hear from any unconverted historic boat owners who use a section of their hold as a kitchen. I would like to know everything that is good about your kitchen and it's position within the boat and everything that is bad about it or what you would change if the room allowed.

 

What are the regulations regarding using a gas appliance such as a cooker in an open hold, or even one with cloths on?

 

I have seen makeshift (or in some cases fairly permanent) kitchens set up, usually in the bow section of the hold in some boats. It is usually boats that have not been converted and so only have the fairly limited space and facilities in their back cabin.

 

I suspect some of the activity I have seen in a boats hold is actually because the owners have a beautifully presented cabin with freshly polished brass and pristine lace and they don't want to mess it all up by washing up their breakfast plates in there at a festival when the public are due through the gates in the next twenty minutes

 

I also suspect food preparation is a much more social exercise when it can be done somewhere where you have room to invite friends round.

 

If you actually has room to squeeze a tiny kitchen into your cabin along with a couple of decent size bunks would you choose that over your place in the hold?

 

 

[ricyoung]

We have basic kitchens on both our boats, both with cloths over the hold. We have found the best solution is one or two of the IKEA stand alone stainless steel kitchen units. Unfortunately they don't seem to be on the the UK website, but if you search "IKEA Udden" you will get the idea. We have tried various combinations of domestic units and worktops and these are by far the best - mostly because the sink is formed into the worktop, so no seals to go mouldy. We use 250litre food grade drums as tanks, a cheap B&Q tap and hoselock pipe connections so you can drain and cholrinate the lines easily. The only extravagance being an electric diaphragm pump so you get running water (we tried hand and foot pumps but it gets boring after a while).

 

Regarding ovens we buy the standard domestic stand alone ones with the hob on the top. The important thing is to get one designed and certified for multiple occupancy houses as they have flame failure devices. We have never had problems with them running LPG and I don't think we even had to change the burners. So long as your gas bottles are correctly stored you're winning.

 

We do not have any sink wastes, the sinks just drain into heavy duty 25 litre buckets which get tipped out when nearly full - probably once a day at most.

 

I cannot think of anything we would change as the design has evolved over the last 30 odd years and doesn't seem to have any downsides. Really useful boxes are very good for keeping pans and plates free from dust when you leave the boat - the IKEA units come with rack shelving which seems to work fine for everything else.

 

We have a camping coolbox - search "Tristar 45 3-Way Fridge" which will run on LPG, although officially it is not a permanent installation and classed as portable. We are comfortable with it as the hold on both boats is very well ventilated and again it has flame failure so we are covered from that perspective. Using both the fridge and oven we use less than 6kg of gas per week.

 

We also have a very effective shower created out of a large trug bucket, a smaller bucket, a 12v Whale barrel pump, a watering can rose and a shower curtain. Mix one kettle full of hot water with one bucket of cold and you get just enough time for a reasonably hot shower, An inline switch to the pump within easy reach means you can pause the water halfway through so you don't waste it.

 

If you need more info let me know.

 

Cheers,

 

Ric

Edited January 30, 2015 by ricyoung

[madcat]

Expert advice. I've seen the Rudd and Severn systems and they work well and can feed large numbers of hungry boaters easily . Rudd is positively de luxe but everything can be removed very quickly and easily if needed. Sounds ideal for Python

[David Mack]

We have an under cloth kitchen on Fulbourne. Located at the back of the hold, it is basically a set of standard kitchen units down either side, together with a purpose built narrower unit and a conventional boat lpg cooker. The units are on varying height feet, so that the worktop is approximately level, even though the boat is significantly higher at the bow.

 

We have a white painted boards under the sheets to protect them from heat from the cooker and from steam from cooking. They also reflect light down which is helpful.

 

The gas installation is standard and passes the BSS no problem.

 

The sink drains into a large bucket which we empty over the side. The reason for this is that we don't want to put a permanent drain through the hull side (although we have one for the gas locker), but there's no real reason why you couldn't.

 

It all works well enough.

 

[alan_fincher]

What are the regulations regarding using a gas appliance such as a cooker in an open hold, or even one with cloths on?

Do you already have gas in a proper gas locker that meets BSS requirements?

 

If so, I don't think the appliance side will be any different under cloths in the hold from what it would be if in a cabin.

We have an under cloth kitchen on Fulbourne.

 

That is so much luxury compared to what you got on something like a Union Canal Carrier's boat being used as a camper!

 

Basic would have been overstating it!

[madcat]

Wow luxury , does Fulborne's need a cat . ( joke , you are too far away )

[roland elsdon]

Thaxted had a similar system in for 6 months when we sold the butty let the house for a year and had 6 months on the canal and six in Australia. ( gap year for the aged) we had a portable gas cooker and grill, to avoid the bottles regs, and 2 Tilly stoves. Toilet tent arrangement with shower tray 5 gallon drum and bilge pump, and a couple of secondhand kitchen units, drainer into a 5 gallon drum and electric lights spliced into the headlight line.worked well and de installing involved 10 minutes next to a skip. Works better in summer than winter.

 

When we get back to fenny from this summers work I'm putting in a gazebo and barbecue for her hold! Weathers so bad in Oz might as well get some use out of them. I'll just move the planks over the hold and pop up the gazebo.... That will upset the rivet counters

[jake_crew]

That is so much luxury compared to what you got on something like a Union Canal Carrier's boat being used as a camper!

 

Basic would have been overstating it!

Probably got some slides somewhere of that - we were a bunch of sixth formers let off the leash.

 

The two girls in the back cabin, the rest of us on bunks in the hold, with the kitchen by the engine room bulkhead.

 

And the bucket-n-chuckit up at the cratch.

 

Happy (care-free) days.

Edited January 31, 2015 by jake_crew

[cheshire~rose]

Thank you everyone for your replies, especially those who have spent a considerable amount of time giving such detailed descriptions of their set up.

 

It is extremely enlightening and gives some food for thought.

 

With Python we are in a position where we are going to have to start completely from scratch with the fit out of her cabin. While there are a number of things we can salvage much of it is either dated and damaged or inexpensive DIY and so I want to plan things through properly before we embark upon refitting her. Her day cabin is luxuriant in size compared to a back cabin and I am hopeful we should be able to get bunks and a small kitchen in there but I am playing around with a few ideas in my head and just wondered whether it may be better to concentrate on bunks and storage in the cabin (which can be much more comfortable as it is better insulated) and have a free standing kitchen in the hold.

 

Alan asks about the gas locker, well yes we do have one that meets BSS standards. It stands just behind the cratch board on Python but as part of the fabrication work we are having done Paul Barber is going to fit one into the void in her bow. The current arrangement does not allow for any access to the bow from inside the boat and with arrangement of the cloths means there are no gunwales to walk along either.

 

Within the next month we will have some expert advise on the cabin fit out and so we can start to make some decisions.

[koukouvagia]

We had a makeshift kitchen and bathroom under the cloths on Owl before we had the permanent under-cloth conversion. We liked to have the hold clear when the cloths down so any kitchen equipment etc. had to be such that it could be tucked away somewhere.

Unlike Fulbourne, ours was a very rudimentary arrangement. It consisted of the following:

 

- An Origo meths stove on a camping table. (The Origo is an excellent piece of kit).

- A few folding chairs.

- A cardboard box for provisions

- A fryingpan for bacon and eggs in the morning. This was perched on the engine and heated with with the blowlamp.

- The sink was a washing up bowl filled from 5 gallon on containers. I later ran a hose connection from the water tank in the front and pumped it into the bowl with a foot operated Whale pump.

- A tin bath. Hot water for this came from solar showers - i.e. black plastic containers left out in the sun.

- Two loos - i.e. buckets. One in the engine hole; one at the front.

- Fridge - we just plonked stuff on the uxter plate.

 

There were two drawbacks as I remember:

- dreadful condensation on the underside of the cloths and on the uninsulated sides of the hold. Everything got sopping wet.

- having to remember to duck under the chains. These were especially designed to catch you out when going to the loo at night in the cratch.

 

We did try a new fangled (well this was over 25 years ago) diesel hob which drew the diesel from a gallon tin - but it never really worked properly.

 

We had some of our best trips when the boat was in this state. What you are planning sounds like the height of luxury and sophistication.

[Laurence Hogg]

We have a small vanity unit set up in the corner of the engine room on "Barnet", made from odd bits of stuff we had around, a plastic storage box as a under floor water tank, a submerged pump and a stainless steel bowl converted to a sink, all cost less than £50 but it is extremely useful and gets used to wash hands and arms after using the weedhatch for instance.

 

[J R ALSOP]

I like the loo lid, first one seen in over 55 years boating.

[Derek R.]

Birds eye Maple - three ha'pence a foot . . . .

[Laurence Hogg]

I like the loo lid, first one seen in over 55 years boating.

 

You should have seen the Black and white 12 v Tv, I sold it on ebay last year the only scumbled TV ever seen!!

[ricyoung]

On the subject of condensation, the only answer is good ventilation. It gets quite bad on Severn in the winter as we use PVC cloths, its not so bad on Rudd as we use Regentex (Severn will be upgraded in due course). The best solution we have found on both boats is to allow a good flow of air through the hold. On Severn we simply leave a gap at the front and the back for the wind (and leaves) to blow through. On Rudd it's harder as the cratch is clothed up, so our solution is to drop lengths of square plastic downpipe between the top and side cloths. This leaves a good gap for the air to circulate and we have not had any problems since despite leaving it alone for long periods over the winter. The other suggestion would be - an this only applies if you will be fully clothed up, obviously - don't be afraid of rolling the top cloths up when you are using the hold. It may not look traditional, but it makes a huge difference to the ventilation (see link below).

 

There is very little you can do to make it warmer, so I wouldn't bother - just get a decent sleeping bag if you are not using the cabin to sleep in. We had a gas fire but skipped it as it never got used.

 

If you are planning to add a sidelining then a thin sheet of plywood sprung between two battens on the shuts and under the gunnel is all you need. Based on experience of both I would spray the hullside with waxoyl then use a slightly bigger thickness of rockwool than the gap so it compresses. We have used polystyrene stuck to the plywood before and ended up with corrosion in the air gap between the insulation and the hullside.

 

I second the idea of using the cratch as a good location for the loo by the way, although its a long walk from the cabin at 2 in the morning when its cold and raining...

 

http://hnbc.org.uk/boats/rudd

 

ETA - We have exactly the same cable tied pipe insulation on our cross plank chains as Fulbourne. It's saved many a sore back in its time...

Edited February 1, 2015 by ricyoung

[sampeeter]

Great Kitchen alan_fincher

Edited February 4, 2015 by sampeeter

[IanM]

Great Kitchen alan_fincher

 

 

[ricyoung]

Some picture of Rudd's galley for inspiration. It is located aft the mast, but I can see no reason why it could not be forward. The shelves on the left were made to fit as they need to be pretty shallow depth.

 

Ric.