Working Boats At Stoke Bruerne In 1966

[alan_fincher]

I have just happened across these wonderful images on Flickr.

 

They are under the name John Pemberton, so I assume they are his photos.

 

It is obviously Rose Whitlock (on Lucy) and Laura Carter (on Ian) on the Blue Line pair.

 

But can anybody identify the crews on Aldgate & Brighton or Dipper and its butty please, (or indeed what that butty might be).

 

I love it when this stuff turns up - there must be loads more out there, but only small amounts seem to trickle out online.

 

Stoke Bruerne-1966 by jonboy1007, on Flickr

 

Stoke Bruerne-1966 by jonboy1007, on Flickr

 

Stoke Bruerne-1966 by jonboy1007, on Flickr

 

Stoke Bruerne-1966 by jonboy1007, on Flickr

 

Stoke Bruerne-1966 by jonboy1007, on Flickr

 

Stoke Bruerne-1966 by jonboy1007, on Flickr

 

Stoke Bruerne-1966 by jonboy1007, on Flickr

 

Stoke Bruerne-1966 by jonboy1007, on Flickr

 

Stoke Bruerne-1966 by jonboy1007, on Flickr

 

Stoke Bruerne-1966 by jonboy1007, on Flickr

 

Stoke Bruerne-1966 by jonboy1007, on Flickr

[Tam & Di]

A great series of photos. I'm sure I know the who it is on the Willow Wren pair but can't come up with his name just now. 1966 is quite late in the life of Willow Wren - I guess they are for Apsley with coal at that time. The butty still had BW blue on the fore end. I see Tony is on-line at the moment and he can probably cast more light on the shots than me.

 

Tam

[luctor et emergo]

Alan, your sentiment about these pictures finally emerging from obscure, often from private sources, is very similar to that of those who are interested in WWII history. So many photographs are only discovered, lest alone shared with the world, untill after the persons who took/appeared/Inherited the photos have passed on, often taking their knowledge with them..

[alan_fincher]

I'm sure I know the who it is on the Willow Wren pair but can't come up with his name just now. 1966 is quite late in the life of Willow Wren - I guess they are for Apsley with coal at that time.

I think all canal carriage of coal to Apsley Mills had ceased before 1966 - I'm not sure it ever resumed after the 1962/3 "big freeze"?

 

It was Croxley that carried on last, I think.

 

I know there are ways of separating the potential destinations, because to some of them the coal had to be sheeted over, whereas to others it could be left uncovered. Damned if I can remember which is which tough, without looking it up!

 

Also without looking it up, I can't remember the date that traffic to Colne Valley Sewage Works ended.

[luctor et emergo]

I think all canal carriage of coal to Apsley Mills had ceased before 1966 - I'm not sure it ever resumed after the 1962/3 "big freeze"?

 

It was Croxley that carried on last, I think.

 

I know there are ways of separating the potential destinations, because to some of them the coal had to be sheeted over, whereas to others it could be left uncovered. Damned if I can remember which is which tough, without looking it up!

 

Also without looking it up, I can't remember the date that traffic to Colne Valley Sewage Works ended.

 

And this is a beautiful post. Try the same, with a grainy picture of a tank in WW II, and determine what is what. If those who where ther, and still of sound mind, are not sure about the sixties, what chance about getting the real details about the fourties?? Still, the discussions go on...

[Derek R.]

The other fact about the forties and WWII experiences, is that many who came back were adversely affected by what they saw and were involved in. My Father was one, a Dunkirk veteran and 'Desert Rat' who never would speak of his experiences. War is not a noble venture, though there is a great following of the vehicles that were involved.

 

I'm sure many families hold snapshots of a great variety of scenes and events. Probably taken off the cuff and quite fuzzy including family members, so perhaps not quite suitable for publishing at large. These fine images seem more quality, taken on an outing. Members of a photographic society and their spouses? Who knows. Nice to see them.

[Leo No2]

The date cannot be far wrong - no Poplar trees visible on the far side of the Museum - my understanding is that they were replanted in about 1961. The ash box is visible by Lock 15 (still there today) and the fence on the towpath side between Locks 14 and 15 is now about 8' tall!

 

I will show them to David Blagrove and see if he has any comments.

 

 

Members of a photographic society and their spouses?

 

​In one of the images alongside Lock 15 there is a gentleman with a camera around his neck which I think bears out Derek's comment.

[Jay4424]

copied from http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=61797

 

I'd guess ath the butty being Bedworth.

 

 

Willow Wren Fleet 1968

Operational Pairs Motors Butties
Widgeon* & Badsey (motor)
Curlew * & Cygnus
Rail* & Ara
Slough & Bingley
Nuneaton & Aboyne
Redshank* & Toucan
Dipper* & Bedworth
Flamingo* & Beverley
Sudbury & Alperton
Buxton & Satellite

[alan_fincher]

copied from http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=61797

 

I'd guess ath the butty being Bedworth.

 

 

Willow Wren Fleet 1968

 

Operational Pairs Motors Butties

Widgeon* & Badsey (motor)

Curlew * & Cygnus

Rail* & Ara

Slough & Bingley

Nuneaton & Aboyne

Redshank* & Toucan

Dipper* & Bedworth

Flamingo* & Beverley

Sudbury & Alperton

Buxton & Satellite

 

Possibly, but it does seem that this late on in Willow Wren CTSs history that both motor/butty pairings and the families aboard particular boats changed regularly.

 

For example Jack Boswell had Dipper with Bordesley towards the end - possibly Banbury earlier on,I think. Ted Ward also had Dipper at one stage, amongst the several boats he is pictured with.

 

The steerer in the poicture is certainly not Ted Ward, and I think probably not Jack Boswell either, nor does the woman working the locks look much like pictures of the wives of either.

 

I suspect if Kathryn shows this to David Blagrove he may have some ideas.

 

The livery on Dipper is smart, but althogh there wrre numerous variants, I haven't particularly noticed other boats with the red omitted completely.

[Leo No2]

The following kindly provided by David Blagrove

 

Very interesting. Note how well-kept the canalside vegetation was in those days, and also that the copings were whitened even away from top lock (Jack James had retired by then, but he had whitewashed all down the flight in his time). The hedge going towards the tunnel is particularly well-clipped. The Blue Line boats are Ian and Lucy, the motor steered by Laura Carter (still alive and living in Braunston) and her cousin Rose Whitlock. Very smart boats too. The other pictures are mainly the Willow Wren pair Dipper (now reverted to its original name of Bristol) and an unidentified butty. I should know the steerer, I think its John Boswell, father of the Johnnie Boswell who helps out at our events. Also Aldgate and Brighton (both still working). Note the use of thumblines at Lock 15! Also an interesting view of the original outbuildings of the Navigation, then still 'Home Farm'. I would estimate the time of year as being early spring. We came to Wharf Cottage later that year.

 

In the picture of Rose Whitlock by our barn, note Julia's Dad's Land Rover parked outside Hoperidge Cottage.

Julia, of course, is Julia of Jules Fuels.

 

ETA: This is the kind of information that is, IMHO, gold-dust and whilst it is here it is reasonably accessible but where can it all go for future generations when we've all shuffled onwards? As an example I have recently been shown letters written by my Aunt, correcting captions for the article about Heather Bell in 1941 which were in the National Archive in Kew. There seems no central place where such information is held.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Leo No2

[Ray T]

Waterways World featured an article "Warwickshire coal goes south" in the December 2005 edition.

 

It is by Fred Birden with captions by David Blagrove. it is of a similar era with boats in Willow Wren and BW livery.

 

Boats featured:

Naburn with un-named small Woolwich butty

Butty Raymond

Un-named motor with butty Kew

Motor Towcester

Unidentified Ovaltine motor and butty

Motors Redshank with butty Greenshank

Motor Bournmouth

butty ex FMC Exe

Wooden motor Briar (WW Moorhen)

Swan: Kimberley : Dabchick : Satellite : Cygnet

Nautilus : with butty Sinfold

 

People featured Ted Harrison : George Harris : Mrs. Doris Bellingham and Jack James.

 

Places: Braunston Top Lock : Lock 4 Braunston : Willow Wren Yard, Braunston Bottom Lock : Lock 2 Braunston : Snareston and Blisworth Tunnels and Lock 4 Atherstone.

 

Curiously, I have just finished Bread upon the waters by David Blagrove.

[alan_fincher]

I should know the steerer, I think its John Boswell, father of the Johnnie Boswell who helps out at our events.

 

Interesting. I don't know if by John Boswell, David is referring to a Willow Wren steerer known as Jack Boswell, (yes, I know "Jack" is a familiar form of John).

 

If so Jack Boswell is known to have had Dipper at some point in Willow Wren CTS days, although the son that is usually pictured with the family on the boats is a Tommy Boswell, I believe.

 

I didn't think these people looked that close to images I have seen of Jack and Violet Boswell, though it is not impossible - the mode of dressing is very similar.

 

It might be interesting if David Schweizer got to see this thread, as he was active on the GU in the 1960s, and got to know quite a few of the boating families.

[David Schweizer]

I knew Jack and Violet Boswell quite well, and whilst the woman working the locks could be Violet, I don't think it is her (the hair is wrong), and I am pretty certain that that the man steering it is not Jack, he looks more like Ron Green or possibly George Harris to me, but I wouldn't put money on any of those suggestions.

 

The identification problem is that all the younger men wore their ex army service berets sitting back on their heads, and the women all wore headscarves which made those of somilar stature look the much same

 

 

Edited to Add: I knew three generations of Boswells, John senior who by the 1960's was lock keeper at Cassiobury Park, His son John (usually known as Jack) who worked for Willow Wren and his son John who is the same John Boswell who now helps with the Braunston historic boat show, he has a brother Tommy (now known as Tom) who I believe lives in London and is/was associated with a couple of canal based organizations. John Boswell is a member of this forum but rarely posts, maybe someone could persuade him to do an identification.

Edited January 12, 2015 by David Schweizer

[archie57]

This is John Henry Meese steering the "Dipper", possibly the "Baildon" butty. Mrs Rose Meese also pictured, and its their son-in-laws' boats "Aldgate" and "Brighton" with Mrs Liz Green steering - husband Ron getting the lock ready.

Should add that Messrs Meese and Greens boats were often seen together!

[archie57]

Further to this - note Mr Meese is turning the lock round for son-in-laws boats!

[Athy]

I assume that there are eleven photos in all, but only the first and the last show up on my screen, the rest being blank spaces. Is anyone else finding the same thing?

[Tam & Di]

Further to this - note Mr Meese is turning the lock round for son-in-laws boats!

 

I see he has his mast line tied direct to the mast itself rather than on the loobey - he didn't reckon it was ever going to snag on anything did he.

 

Tam

I assume that there are eleven photos in all, but only the first and the last show up on my screen, the rest being blank spaces. Is anyone else finding the same thing?

I see all eleven.

[Athy]

 

 

 

 

I see all eleven.

Strangely, after leaving the thread and then clicking on to it again, so can I! How extraordinary.

Splendid archive pics they are too.

[John Brightley]

 

ETA: This is the kind of information that is, IMHO, gold-dust and whilst it is here it is reasonably accessible but where can it all go for future generations when we've all shuffled onwards? As an example I have recently been shown letters written by my Aunt, correcting captions for the article about Heather Bell in 1941 which were in the National Archive in Kew. There seems no central place where such information is held.

 

I've started a new topic to help you with this.

[alan_fincher]

This is John Henry Meese steering the "Dipper", possibly the "Baildon" butty. Mrs Rose Meese also pictured, and its their son-in-laws' boats "Aldgate" and "Brighton" with Mrs Liz Green steering - husband Ron getting the lock ready.

Should add that Messrs Meese and Greens boats were often seen together!

 

Thanks Archie,

 

I had assumed it might likely be Elisabeth Green on Aldgate and Brighton, as other photos record Ron and Elisabeth Green on that pair about that time, I think.

 

The bit I puzzle about is that they had our "Flamingo" both well before that 1966 date, (also with Brighton), but seemed to have only had Aldgate for a while, as they appear again with Flamingo afterwards, (by 1968 Ron and Elisabeth had Flamingo with Bideford).

 

I hadn't realised though that it might be John Henry and Rose Meese on the other pair - it makes sense now you say that.

 

I had twigged that one pair of boats seemed to be turning the locks for the other pair - now we have the family connection, it seems obvious they were travelling together.

 

I felt sure someone would know!

[jeannette smith harrison]

I knew Jack and Violet Boswell quite well, and whilst the woman working the locks could be Violet, I don't think it is her (the hair is wrong), and I am pretty certain that that the man steering it is not Jack, he looks more like Ron Green or possibly George Harris to me, but I wouldn't put money on any of those suggestions.

 

The identification problem is that all the younger men wore their ex army service berets sitting back on their heads, and the women all wore headscarves which made those of somilar stature look the much same

 

 

Edited to Add: I knew three generations of Boswells, John senior who by the 1960's was lock keeper at Cassiobury Park, His son John (usually known as Jack) who worked for Willow Wren and his son John who is the same John Boswell who now helps with the Braunston historic boat show, he has a brother Tommy (now known as Tom) who I believe lives in London and is/was associated with a couple of canal based organizations. John Boswell is a member of this forum but rarely posts, maybe someone could persuade him to do an identification.

John is away from home @ the Moment but I will phone him to let him know ref this posting .spot on with the order of names for the Boswells .John from Braunston is better Known as John Henry to avoid mixing up. He was named after John Henry Meese. my connection to John is through the Greens .John & I are always @ Blissworth fest with our Green family .As added intrest Green's are also connected to my Humphries & Carter Family .

[ChimneyChain]

I wonder if Ron green is still alive and connected to the canals in one form or another. Would be a nice photo opportunity to get him on the back steering it again.

 

Darren

[archie57]

Mr and Mrs Green still live in Rugby area and son Alan works for CRT

[alan_fincher]

I think it was probably Jeannette that mentioned that Ron Green sometimes attends the Braunston show.

 

I would certainly like the opportunity to meet him.

 

One of the most interesting conversations I have been in was with Roger and Jean Hatchard, who also worked for Willow Wren - I felt Roger was spot on on everything he told us, whereas some of the other Willow Wren captains may have "embellished" stories a bit over time, (possibly!).

[zenataomm]

Some of the BW ones as well.