Narrowboats into coastal waters

[grunders]

I once watched a video called The longest Narrowboat Journey (Black Country to the Black Sea), in which 2 trad narrowboats crossed the chanel with the intention of crossing Europe.

 

That is a very interesting video. The butty sank when they were waiting for a lock somewhere but they recovered it - it is also notable that the most dangerous parts of their trip were on the large rivers rather than the channel crossing.

[blackrose]

That is a very interesting video. The butty sank when they were waiting for a lock somewhere but they recovered it - it is also notable that the most dangerous parts of their trip were on the large rivers rather than the channel crossing.

 

That is worrying - you'd think a narrowboat could handle a river. Was it mainly the wash of bigger vessels that was the problem? I watched it a long time ago and can't remember.

[Dr Bradley]

Yes, I was thinking the 2 brested hulls might act like a catamaran but I hadn't thought of the double bow with nowhere for the water to go between them.

 

If they were breasted up with a gap between them (perhaps well secured scaffoled poles - Have you ever seen how a cataraman is built?) then the double bow would appear to be effective - or perhaps three boats and be a trimaran.

 

I think it was my first post on here that I asked how to make a narrowboat seaworthy. the answer is you can't, but if you wish to navigate the Humber, Ribble, Trent and Severn it is possible that you might meet worse conditions than in a placid channel crossing, and boats do this. How about the trip across the Wash shown by the Tuesday night club, or down the Thames to the Medway.

 

The well deck would have to be covered/sealed and windows would have to be secure - see the other post on windows for security - it can be done. How about being pooped. The back deck would have to be secure. Not too much of a problem on a trad but difficult on a cruiser.

 

The cost of modifications would probably be more than using a lorry to get to France, but the challenge and fun and risk taking just might make it worth doing.

 

I would probably prefer to use a yacht, but since I'm putting my money into a canal boat, I can't afford a seaboat as well.

 

As a self confessed adrenalin junky, I'm up for it - you only die once as Earth Bond would put it.

 

Colin

Edited February 9, 2007 by Dr Bradley

[Roger Gunkel]

I think it was my first post on here that I asked how to make a narrowboat seaworthy. the answer is you can't, but if you wish to navigate the Humber, Ribble, Trent and Severn it is possible that you might meet worse conditions than in a placid channel crossing, and boats do this. How about the trip across the Wash shown by the Tuesday night club, or down the Thames to the Medway.

 

The cost of modifications would probably be more than using a lorry to get to France, but the challenge and fun and risk taking just might make it worth doing.

As a self confessed adrenalin junky, I'm up for it - you only die once as Earth Bond would put it.

 

Colin

All of the rivers you mentioned are only a comparatively short distance from a river bank. There is also a big difference between short sharp waves that appear to be big on a river and the kind of swell and the motion that you get in a real seaway. The middle of the channel is a long way from safety when two 15 ton steel narrow boats held together with scafold poles start meeting some bigger waves.

 

The problem with the 'you only die once attitude' is that when it comes to the sea, a lot of brave people will be risking their own lives to try to save yours when your plan goes wrong.

 

If you want an adrenalin rush, take up freejumping from buildings, at least if your chute fails or you get it wrong it only takes a shovel to pick up the mess. Meanwhile enjoy your boating.

 

Roger

[ChrisPy]

I don't think most of us have any concept of a European river. I bought a book, I think it was the 'Barge Buyers Guide' or summat, and the requirements for a boat to travel up or down the Rhine were scary. It's no good being near the bank if the current is carrying you along at 8 knots. You need a very powerful engine to challenge the current in those conditions.

 

As for crossing a seaway in a widebeam - I don't think the scantlings are up to it. A narrowboat is intrinsically stronger, having a 2metre wide base. A widebeam with similar scantlings but a 3m wide base is less than half as strong in some senses. (for the mathematically minded, it's about the power of 2, ie 3x3=9, as opposed to 2x2=4). Gary will correctly argue that the widebeam should have stronger scantlings, but the fact is they often don't.

 

Please, please don't think about it unless you meet Category C certification requirements as a minimum.

 

I might, one day, venture out up the Severn from Bristol to Portishead and maybe to Saul, with a pilot and in company with other boats, but that's the limit. Strictly I'll be outside the Category D limits. It'll have to be on a neap tide, with no wind or swell.

[Blue_skies]

Very glad to see some of the helpful and interesting posts generated by my question. It's always a good idea to get a wide range of opinions from people with more experience than yourself when investigating an issue.

[Lophat Euro]

When I moved my narrowboat to France, I had it dropped into the yacht harbour at Calais. Mistake. We were trapped there for four days by a force 8 ( the harbour gates are below water for two hours either side of high tide). It was a very rough experience.

 

When port control gave us the OK to cross to the Carnot lock, we had no problem with the light swell as we made our way between the cross channel ferries. It was two sea tugs coming out of the lock at 20 knots that almost finished us. Each one pushed a wall of water in front of it so high we could not see the boats.

A narrowboat can take a lot of water on the bows, especially the old Harborough high bows, but it is the wave energy on the sides that take you to shake hands with the devil. You do not want to find out the maximum angle of heel of a narrowboat and so much depends on the security of ballast, and the amount of liquid in the tanks. You turn your boat through most of a right angle to cross the bow wave but before you can get her back the stern swell is coming at your beam: stern swell does not have crests and takes people by surprise. A second boat coming close up on a different angle, demands another fast turn. Its a doddle in a fast sailor, but fast and narrowboat are not often paired successfully.

Should you find the idea of taking a narrowboat into tidal waters, or even a busy port, persist, try to get some time in on big continental rivers: a wide river with soft banks that absorbs a lot of the energy from the water and has a lighter volume of traffic, is a little more forgiving of the shortcomings of narrowboats and their crews.

[churchward]

Oh yes ... it can be done ...

 

Here's some links to some Sea-Going Narrowboats that you may get some information from

 

Sea-going Narrowboat - (Frances)

 

Sea-going Narrowboat - (Narrow Dog)

 

Sea-going Narrowboat - (Ocean Princess)

 

I have just read the Narrow dog book and they did have a modified bow and front doors to the boat. The well at the fore end was sealed over, as were the doors to stop flooding the front of the boat. The ballast was unmodified I recall.

 

It all sounds a bit scary to me.

Edited March 20, 2007 by churchward

[carlt]

A friend of mine has recently got back from a couple of years boating in europe. He said the price of craning out, lorry to France and crane back in wasn't much more than a fortnights hire in France. If you want to experience boating at sea there are plenty of enthusiasts out there with proper boats, who would give you a trip out.

 

If you were to lose you're boat, even if you were saved, think how cheap that lorry ride would seem.

[I Frances]

Can a 57ft narrowboat (traditional) be adapted to nip into coastal waters and do a stretch of coast (say, Thames to Humber estuary). Would some sort of closed bow modification be needed or perhaps extra balasting / kealing?

 

Thanks

 

Maybe. A closed in bow and stern modification would both be necessary. No extra ballast would be needed nor wanted. Most narrow boats I have seen are very heavy and are therefore reluctant to lift to the waves. Plywood window dhutters would als be needed. WATCH THE WEATHER VERY CAREFULLY, PLAN ONLY SHORT HOPS, AND BE VERY CAUTIOUS.

[barge sara]

Maybe. A closed in bow and stern modification would both be necessary. No extra ballast would be needed nor wanted. Most narrow boats I have seen are very heavy and are therefore reluctant to lift to the waves. Plywood window dhutters would als be needed. WATCH THE WEATHER VERY CAREFULLY, PLAN ONLY SHORT HOPS, AND BE VERY CAUTIOUS.

Um..

Do you realise you're answering a question that was asked three years ago?

Edited February 15, 2010 by barge sara

[Laurence Hogg]

This thread may be of interest, it covers "Progress" which pioneered the idea of going out to sea (and France)

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=28402

[carlt]

Um..

Do you realise you're answering a question that was asked three years ago?

A new member with a very authoritative perspective.

 

The I Frances is a boat with a near mythical reputation and I, for one, would love to hear more about her, from the horse's mouth (so to speak).

[Speedwheel]

Might be of interest.

 

http://www.canalholidays.co.uk/oceanprincess.php

 

In 1999 we took a boat accross to Ireland (on a ferry!) and spent a year out there. Some of the Lochs were big enough that you could hardly see the edges and it was quite scary. Some of the waves were big and when the fog came down you were steering by GPS. The boat had to be fully prep'd for these conditions.

 

Have also done the Lower Severn, Wash, Lower Thames/Medway and Mersey. We were looking to take a boat up to Scotland to do the Forth and Clyde and Caledonian but, even at mates rates, it is expensive!

[furnessvale]

If they were breasted up with a gap between them (perhaps well secured scaffoled poles - Have you ever seen how a cataraman is built?) then the double bow would appear to be effective - or perhaps three boats and be a trimaran.

 

Colin

 

When going down the ship canal with another narrow boat we were forced (by the authorities) to breast up. We went prepared and used double tyres in the gap front and back to open it up. Even so we gathered a fair amount of crud in the gap which we had to frequently clear.

 

George ex nb Alton retired.

[Ray T]

Can a 57ft narrowboat (traditional) be adapted to nip into coastal waters and do a stretch of coast (say, Thames to Humber estuary). Would some sort of closed bow modification be needed or perhaps extra balasting / kealing?

 

Thanks

 

I see it has been done but to my mind about as sensible as the man who set sail from North Wales using a road atlas to navigate.

 

My qualification for this statement, 3,700 sea miles in offshore yachts!

Edited February 19, 2010 by Ray T