Another nail in the coffin?

[pearley]

I know this is from the Dark Side but still worth reading:

 

http://www.narrowboatworld.com/index.php/news-flash/7629-marina-owner-prosecuted-over-fire

 

When we were in the drydock at Sherborne in 2013 they allowed us to stay on board because we were 'known' to the engineer. What chance next time?

[Pete & Helen]

It fails (again) to tell the whole story. What work was being carried out? was the workshop locked? It looks like a timber shed so were they told not to have a fire in?? so many unanswered questions.

 

As far as I know many people stay on their boat during maintenance/blacking. Yes I know some sites don't let you stay on your boat, but is there a particular reason for this?

Edited January 8, 2015 by Pete & Helen

[boathunter]

I don't see that the workshop or being in it contributed to the fire so it seems a bit harsh to me. If I were the marina owner, knowing the people were safe, I might feel rather aggreived that someone's dodgy electrics burnt my boatshed down.

[dave moore]

I've often stayed on customer's boats when working on them, but have been refused by some yards when in dock, always citing insurance restrictions. Usually the smarter, more modern yards are more rigorous in this respect.

 

Dave

[the barnacle]

seems harsh when it was the boats electrics that casued the burnout, it may of happened if on the canal not in the shed, maybe yards should get a big static van to offer those having work done to sleep in. but there again they burn out quite often also

[David Schweizer]

That is very old news, it happened more than a year ago. I am also a bit surprised that the Safety Inspectors did not return to the dock to satisfy themselves that the recommendatins had been undertaken,

 

I always stay on our boat when it is docked at Braunston, and remember one year when the Safety Inspectors came to check that all the fire regulation requirements were in place, They were.

Edited January 9, 2015 by David Schweizer

[David Mack]

The marina was prosecuted for failing to take general fire precautions, failing to make a fire risk assessment and failing to maintain a fire evacuation procedure. All of these would be offences whether or not people are allowed to sleep on the boat.

 

But the judge concluded that had a fire risk assessment been done, it would (in his opinion) have concluded that the risks of allowing people to sleep on board was unacceptably high. This does leave the door open for another dock owner to carry our a risk assessment, and adopt such measures as may be necessary to reduce the risk to an acceptable level. Such measures might include banning the use of stoves and cooking appliances while in the dock, or ensuring that flammable materials are not stored in the building, and both of these would be less of an issue in an open (unroofed) dock. As to whether any dry dock owner will take such an approach, only time will tell.

 

[Laurie Booth]

I would tell the fire offers to F*** Off.

[5thHorseman]

I would tell the fire offers to F*** Off.

 

You would not win this.

Your insurance company would abandon you, probably for all insurance matters and

a prohibition notice would be issued which if you deliberately went against would invoke:-

 

(Quote from govenment web site:-)

 

Penalties

You could be fined or go to prison if you don’t follow fire safety regulations.

Minor penalties can be up to £5,000. Major penalties can have unlimited fines and up to 2 years in prison.

[MtB]

I would tell the fire offers to F*** Off.

 

 

Me too. I would decline all offers of a fire*.

 

 

MtB

 

 

* Just getting in on that open goal ahead of Athy!

[Laurie Booth]

 

You would not win this.

Your insurance company would abandon you, probably for all insurance matters and

a prohibition notice would be issued which if you deliberately went against would invoke:-

 

(Quote from govenment web site:-)

 

Penalties

You could be fined or go to prison if you don’t follow fire safety regulations.

Minor penalties can be up to £5,000. Major penalties can have unlimited fines and up to 2 years in prison.

Better lock up all the Tesco managers and close down all their stores.

[Athy]

 

 

Me too. I would decline all offers of a fire*.

 

 

MtB

 

 

* Just getting in on that open goal ahead of Athy!

Not me - I'm not putting myself in the line of fire.

 

 

Oh...

[Jerra]

Better lock up all the Tesco managers and close down all their stores.

Have you any reason to believe that Tesco stores do not have a fire assessment and evacuation plan?

[Laurie Booth]

Have you any reason to believe that Tesco stores do not have a fire assessment and evacuation plan?

Yes

[Jerra]

Yes

And that reason is?

 

When the regulations first came in our local brigade toured businesses large and small checking they knew about the regs and giving help if they hadn't conformed. I fail to see how an operation the size of Tesco could be missed.

 

I know incidentally as I wrote three for our businesses and a friends business, I am also from a brigade family.

[Sabcat]

I've often stayed on customer's boats when working on them, but have been refused by some yards when in dock, always citing insurance restrictions. Usually the smarter, more modern yards are more rigorous in this respect.

 

Dave

 

At NC you can't stay on a boat in the floating dock, you can if it's on the side, outside (if that makes any kind of sense). It's bloody spooky down that yard at night though with that big old shed creaking as it cools.

[Laurie Booth]

.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Laurie.Booth

[Proper Job]

Having people staying on the boat while it is in dock must increase the risk of fire to the premise.

 

They'll be using gas for cooking(?), maybe have a fire lit for heating(?), using electric(?).

 

All carries higher risk than a boat in dock, non occupied with the batteries isolated and the gas shut off.

[David Schweizer]

Having people staying on the boat while it is in dock must increase the risk of fire to the premise.

 

They'll be using gas for cooking(?), maybe have a fire lit for heating(?), using electric(?).

 

All carries higher risk than a boat in dock, non occupied with the batteries isolated and the gas shut off.

 

Why is someone cooking their dinner on a calor gas stove any more dangerous than someone in the dock brandishing a welding torch? muddled thinking.

[Proper Job]

 

Why is someone cooking their dinner on a calor gas stove any more dangerous than someone in the dock brandishing a welding torch? muddled thinking.

 

Why is it muddled thinking?

 

Boat out on the cut has a problem with gas supply/cooker etc. Boat catches fire - boat burns.

 

Boat in dock has a problem with gas supply/cooker etc. Boat catches fire - boat burns - dock burns - occupants have increased difficuly getting out of boat/out of dock/out of premise. All increased risk that the insurers would probably not pay up for.

 

Person working on boat with gas axe welding torch (call it what you will) and they will/should have a proper fire watch, extingishers etc (as per a fire risk assessment)

[Neil2]

 

Why is it muddled thinking?

 

Boat out on the cut has a problem with gas supply/cooker etc. Boat catches fire - boat burns.

 

Boat in dock has a problem with gas supply/cooker etc. Boat catches fire - boat burns - dock burns - occupants have increased difficuly getting out of boat/out of dock/out of premise. All increased risk that the insurers would probably not pay up for.

 

Person working on boat with gas axe welding torch (call it what you will) and they will/should have a proper fire watch, extingishers etc (as per a fire risk assessment)

It sounds like the marina owner hadn't done any form of risk assessment which is doubtless why they are throwing the book at him.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Neil2

[Laurie Booth]

 

Why is it muddled thinking?

 

Boat out on the cut has a problem with gas supply/cooker etc. Boat catches fire - boat burns.

 

Boat in dock has a problem with gas supply/cooker etc. Boat catches fire - boat burns - dock burns - occupants have increased difficuly getting out of boat/out of dock/out of premise. All increased risk that the insurers would probably not pay up for.

 

Person working on boat with gas axe welding torch (call it what you will) and they will/should have a proper fire watch, extingishers etc (as per a fire risk assessment)

Person on a rally catches fire, sets all the boats there on fire, sets local town on fire,,,,,,,,

[David Schweizer]

 

Why is it muddled thinking?

 

Boat out on the cut has a problem with gas supply/cooker etc. Boat catches fire - boat burns.

 

Boat in dock has a problem with gas supply/cooker etc. Boat catches fire - boat burns - dock burns - occupants have increased difficuly getting out of boat/out of dock/out of premise. All increased risk that the insurers would probably not pay up for.

 

Person working on boat with gas axe welding torch (call it what you will) and they will/should have a proper fire watch, extingishers etc (as per a fire risk assessment)

 

Or they turn off the gas supply, which is what the tap next to the cooker is for.

[KarlosMacronius]

The cause of the fire is entirely irrelevant. there are regulations, the owner didn't follow them, hence the prescribed punishment.

[Machpoint005]

The cause of the fire is entirely irrelevant. there are regulations, the owner didn't follow them, hence the prescribed punishment.

 

Ooh! Ooh! Another fact ruining a perfectly good thread!