Carpentry advice: screws and plugs, varnishing.

[Sir Percy]

A little request for advice on fixing and hiding - not very experienced in woodwork, so any help appreciated.

I've constructed a hatch from hardwood (sapele) - tried to avoid screws on the exterior faces as much as possible, but have ended up requiring a few.

The photo shows the side of the hatch at the bottom of the picture (marked 'AS' upside-down) 670 x 45 x 15 mm, on top of which is a strip 15 mm thick.

Would like to fix this with a couple of screws - what size would be best, and can I hide the screw with plugs?

Had a look at plug cutter attachments for drills - the smallest that I can find is #8.

Can I just buy plugs, and from where?

 

Any tips on varnishing?

 

Cheers.

[stagedamager]

The easiest way to do it if you decide to is also buy a plug cutter, and cut your own out of a piece of scrap Sapele, so it matches.

Should be fine to do, the hole would have to be quite deep, say 8 - 9mm to get a plug to hold, and i'd use a good polyurethane glue to secure, or cascamite.

Hope this helps

Regards

 

Dan

[LEO]

A little request for advice on fixing and hiding - not very experienced in woodwork, so any help appreciated.

I've constructed a hatch from hardwood (sapele) - tried to avoid screws on the exterior faces as much as possible, but have ended up requiring a few.

The photo shows the side of the hatch at the bottom of the picture (marked 'AS' upside-down) 670 x 45 x 15 mm, on top of which is a strip 15 mm thick.

Would like to fix this with a couple of screws - what size would be best, and can I hide the screw with plugs?

Had a look at plug cutter attachments for drills - the smallest that I can find is #8.

Can I just buy plugs, and from where?

 

Any tips on varnishing?

 

Cheers.

 

Hi,

 

Looks good, I recently bought a couple of plug cutters from B&Q, I think 8 was the smallest size on offer.

 

They work best when mounted in a pillar drill, then you get a nice clean cut, try and match up the grain direction and you get a nice match secure with some waterproof wood glue. Sand and finish with several coats of good quality UPC resistant varnish.

 

Try and use brass screws.

 

I cut mine from some mahogany I have had for about 30 years, first used it in a bed frame, then an upstand in a kitchen and now part of a frame and plugs.

 

Make sure you make plenty of plugs and use the best.

 

L

[Ray T]

What I do with varnishing, First paint the surfaces with plain white spirit, this helps "lift" the grain for better penetration. Next paint with a 50:50 mix of white spirit and varnish. Followed by a 75:25 mix of varnish and white spirit. Then as many coats of pure varnish as you wish.

 

If you want a super duper finish rub down with very fine glass paper between coats. Use a "tac rag" after rubbing down. Allowing each coat to dry of course before recoating.

 

I would recommend Craftmaster Varnish http://www.craftmasterpaints.co.uk/

 

Others may however, do it differently.

[Sir Percy]

...the hole would have to be quite deep, say 8 - 9mm to get a plug to hold...

 

Thanks, yes - that's what I was worried about, the thickness of the strip is only 15mm. Do I have enough to play with, do you think?

...I would recommend Craftmaster Varnish http://www.craftmasterpaints.co.uk/

 

Ta, was recommended Epifanes. High tung-oil content, apparently. Any particular reason you like Craftmaster?

[Sir Percy]

I forgot - was also considering an oil finish as an alternative to varnish. Any experience with those products out there?

Edited January 8, 2015 by Sir Percy

[Ray T]

 

 

Ta, was recommended Epifanes. High tung-oil content, apparently. Any particular reason you like Craftmaster?

 

Personal preference, was designed by Craftmaster with input from Phil Speight, a renowned boat painter: http://www.canaljunction.com/philspeight/ for marine use also has not yellowed with time.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Ray T

[mickp]

If you only need a few plugs then with a sharp chisel make your own .saw a lengh of square section timber Just over the dia needed cross grain Then round over a short lengh with chisel and tap in to the hole with glue.chop of proud and sand flush then move to the next.how we did it before plug cutters .

[cuthound]

I forgot - was also considering an oil finish as an alternative to varnish. Any experience with those products out there?

When we bought DQ the cratch had been treated with teak oil. It had built up to quite a thick layer and darkened where dirt had been ground into it. I sanded it all off and painted with sadolin

 

If using oil, I think you would need to have a maintence routine of frequent oiling, with periodic removal (and possibly sanding to remove stains) to keep it looking good.

[fudd]

If you don't want to go the plug cutter route, you can buy sapele plugs ready made. Ditto re. the brass screws and polyurethane glue. Osmo do some good wood protection products. I'd go that way rather than varnish, myself.

[Sir Percy]

If you only need a few plugs then with a sharp chisel make your own .saw a lengh of square section timber Just over the dia needed cross grain Then round over a short lengh with chisel and tap in to the hole with glue.chop of proud and sand flush then move to the next.how we did it before plug cutters .

Not a bad idea, esp. as I don't have a pillar drill.

...If using oil, I think you would need to have a maintence routine of frequent oiling, with periodic removal (and possibly sanding to remove stains) to keep it looking good.

 

The maintenance is what puts me off using varnish - not so much having to do it, but I'd have to do it outdoors, subject to dirt, dust and smoke. Not a worry with oil.

you can buy sapele plugs ready made.

 

Do you know where?

[bizzard]

Make your own dowel cutting tool by sawing or grinding a few teeth on one end of a bit of steel tube. Pop it in a drill and oft you go.

[fudd]

Not a bad idea, esp. as I don't have a pillar drill.

 

The maintenance is what puts me off using varnish - not so much having to do it, but I'd have to do it outdoors, subject to dirt, dust and smoke. Not a worry with oil.

 

Do you know where?

A good timber yard will have them.

[David Mack]

If that strip is only 15mm thick, and not subject to any great load, why screw it at all? I would be inclined to fix it with glue and brass panel pins such as these. Punch the heads below the surface and fill with a matching coloured filler, and they'll be hardly noticeable when varnished or oiled. Much quicker, easier (and cheaper).

[Sir Percy]

If that strip is only 15mm thick, and not subject to any great load, why screw it at all? I would be inclined to fix it with glue and brass panel pins such as these. Punch the heads below the surface and fill with a matching coloured filler, and they'll be hardly noticeable when varnished or oiled. Much quicker, easier (and cheaper).

 

That was my first thought - tried putting a steel pin through a piece of scrap, and I never got through the other side, never mind into the piece to be fixed to. It is hardwood, but maybe a little more perseverance and grunt needed.

Like I say, lack of experience...

[David Mack]

 

That was my first thought - tried putting a steel pin through a piece of scrap, and I never got through the other side, never mind into the piece to be fixed to. It is hardwood, but maybe a little more perseverance and grunt needed.

Like I say, lack of experience...

 

Drill a pilot hole first then, with an appropriately fine drill, being very careful not to break it!

[Sir Percy]

 

Drill a pilot hole first then, with an appropriately fine drill, being very careful not to break it!

 

Thinner than 2mm?!!

[David Schweizer]

 

Thinner than 2mm?!!

 

Standard twist drills down to 1mm, available from Screwfix etc. even smaller ones can be bought from railway modelling shops. Don't try using them in a thumping great electric drill though if you don't want to snap them off, use a small hand drill or a modellers drill.

Edited January 9, 2015 by David Schweizer

[Odana]

I forgot - was also considering an oil finish as an alternative to varnish. Any experience with those products out there?

We oiled all our new interior woodwork on advice from Ally Myers of this parish - it is fabulous! Easy to apply, a pleasure to work with, polishes up beautifully, and doesn't leave any of those naste white marks that varnish does when it gets dripped on. And to touch it up, simply wipe on more oil. Osmo Polyxoil is the stuff. Expensive but a 2.5liter can seems to do an entire boat. My mistake at first was using too much in one go - trick is to rag it on thinly and multiple times. Again, can give a very fine sandpapering after first 2 coats to improve the finish. I am a convert and wish I'd known about it before the pain of varnishing 55ft of ceilings and walls in previous years.

 

Now, does anyone know how this stuff works on wood that will be exposed to rain? We are relining the side hatches and back doors next month and i would like to use oil

 

Our carpenter (Peter Hawker, based near Droitwich, really recommend him BTW) buys boxes of plugs so I know you can get them - not sure where though.

[Sir Percy]

...

Now, does anyone know how this stuff works on wood that will be exposed to rain? We are relining the side hatches and back doors next month and i would like to use oil

...

 

After asking about varnish advice above, I think I'll probably go with a Danish oil finish now. There's always the option (apparently) of applying varnish on top at a later date. Ask me in a year's time as to how it's holding up to the elements.

[David Schweizer]

We oiled all our new interior woodwork on advice from Ally Myers of this parish - it is fabulous! Easy to apply, a pleasure to work with, polishes up beautifully, and doesn't leave any of those naste white marks that varnish does when it gets dripped on. And to touch it up, simply wipe on more oil. Osmo Polyxoil is the stuff. Expensive but a 2.5liter can seems to do an entire boat. My mistake at first was using too much in one go - trick is to rag it on thinly and multiple times. Again, can give a very fine sandpapering after first 2 coats to improve the finish. I am a convert and wish I'd known about it before the pain of varnishing 55ft of ceilings and walls in previous years.

 

Now, does anyone know how this stuff works on wood that will be exposed to rain? We are relining the side hatches and back doors next month and i would like to use oil

 

Our carpenter (Peter Hawker, based near Droitwich, really recommend him BTW) buys boxes of plugs so I know you can get them - not sure where though.

 

It doesn't perform at all, it is an interior finish only, and an expensive one considering it's contents which are basicly candlellia wax, paraffin wax and carnuba, let down with sunflower oil and white sprit, plus a few fancy bits which have no historical or chemical pedigree.

 

I have never made it a secret that I am distinctly sceptical about most of these modern wonder polishes which are more about marketting than performance. As someomne who has done a fair amount of antique furniture restoration over the years, i want a finish to be durable and hard wearing, so I only use traditional finishes, either French Polish or Linseed Oil Polish (which predates French Polish)

 

On the boat I also want the surface to be resistant to significant changes in ambient temperature and humidity, for that I will only use spirit based varnish, my preference being for Blackfriars Satin Polyeurethane for the interiior, and Blackfriars Yacht Varnish for exterior surfaces. Applied correctly will not go white if it gets wet, will maintain it's appearance and will last for at least ten years or more,

[Sir Percy]

 

...It doesn't perform at all, it is an interior finish only...

 

Is that Osmo Polyxoil that you're referring to specifically, David?

[David Schweizer]

 

Is that Osmo Polyxoil that you're referring to specifically, David?

 

Yes, and if you go to their web site they state quite catagoricly "For interior use only..."

 

http://www.osmouk.com/sitechapter.cfm?chapter=82&page=247

[David Schweizer]

 

After asking about varnish advice above, I think I'll probably go with a Danish oil finish now. There's always the option (apparently) of applying varnish on top at a later date. Ask me in a year's time as to how it's holding up to the elements.

 

Mmmm! Danish Oil, what is Danish Oil? Answers on no more than one side of A4

 

Danish Oil is a generic term for a mixture of different oils and drying agents, in Europe the predominant oil is either polymerised linseed oil, or tung oil (or a mixture of both), but depending on where it is made it can also contain, sunflower oil, nut oil, poppy seed Oil, cotton oil, sunflower oil, or other uninidentified vegetable oils, it may even incorporate mineral oils,

 

Most producers are reluctant to identify exactly what their "Danish Oil" contains, I have only used it once, and was not at all impressed with it as it never really dried properly and attracted mould growth in a damp environment. If you must go for Danish Oil go for one which most closely matches Traditional Linseed Oil Polish, with a high content of Linseed oil and tung oil.

Edited January 9, 2015 by David Schweizer

[Mike Jordan]

I have plenty of 12mm tapered sapelle plugs ( you need a 12mm hole preferably made with a forstner bit) Its much better to use a scrap piece of the sapelle from the job, they are much more likely to match in.

PM me if you want to have some of the ready made ones.

Mike.