BCN Christmas challenge

[matty40s]

Sick of shopping?

Too many Christmas songs already?

Baldock has had her rudder completely dislodged by a hidden underwater fridge/taxi/submarinejust below camp hill locks.

I have managed to drift to the Minerva works offside next to the Da Vincent Crafts Boats but the rudder us jammed completely and no amount of effort is shifting it.....either sideways, or back up into the cup.

 

So....If anyone fancies a challenge and can assist, they are letting me moor here overnight (function elsewhere)and I am coming back in the morning 10am to try to fix.

Beers at gas street and a Christmas cruise are the reward!

[carlt]

I'm afraid I'm driving oop North tomorrow so can't help but it sounds similar to what happened to Usk once.

 

I managed to prise the rudder back up and over the cup by using a Hi-lift farm jack with the lifting jaw lashed to the bottom of the tiller bar.

 

I was worried that I would bend the skeg but, when I examined it out of the water there was no visible damage.

[alan_fincher]

Baldock has had her rudder completely dislodged by a hidden underwater fridge/taxi/submarine just below camp hill locks.

 

 

Is a certain person starting to take revenge on forum members?

 

(Now "my name will also be on the list"!....)

 

Edited December 19, 2014 by alan_fincher

[bassplayer]

Sick of shopping?

Too many Christmas songs already?

Baldock has had her rudder completely dislodged by a hidden underwater fridge/taxi/submarinejust below camp hill locks.

I have managed to drift to the Minerva works offside next to the Da Vincent Crafts Boats but the rudder us jammed completely and no amount of effort is shifting it.....either sideways, or back up into the cup.

So....If anyone fancies a challenge and can assist, they are letting me moor here overnight (function elsewhere)and I am coming back in the morning 10am to try to fix.

Beers at gas street and a Christmas cruise are the reward!

That's a bummer Matty. I'm sorry I'm nowhere near you (and probably don't know how to help anyway) but I hope someone can help you get it sorted. Fingers crossed for you...

[trackman]

That's a bummer Matty. I'm sorry I'm nowhere near you (and probably don't know how to help anyway) but I hope someone can help you get it sorted. Fingers crossed for you...

Seconded! Best wishes Matty, hope you're soon under way again.

[RLWP]

Photos of anything you might think relevant please, including the top rudder bearing

 

Richard

[matty40s]

 

This is a single piece (behind the garden)

I have plenty of rope and blocks of wood on board, there is also a girder bridge about 100 yds in front above the digbeth branch stop lock which may be useful for lifting.

[David Mack]

Photos of anything you might think relevant please, including the top rudder bearing

 

Richard

 

Its a Big Woolwich. It won't have a top bearing, just a cast iron collar which is a loose fit in the top of the rudder tube. This is what we have on Fulbourne:

 

 

If the rudder can't be lifted then you somehow need to get a jack or wedge under the collar at the bottom of the swan neck to preload it and then try to rotate the rudder, and it *should* come free. Lifting the whole thing up and getting the bottom of the rudder shaft back in the cup is then another game!

[FadeToScarlet]

I guess you can't drop it on the cill in camp hill bottom? Or even put it in the second lock up, drain pound and lock, as a worst case.scenario?

Edit- or drop it with the rudder onto the cill to lift it?

[Leo No2]

I know Sculptor is a small Northwich but if the rudder arrangement is anything like the same there are some images on the links below of her out of the water in late September this year which may prove useful. No bearing at the top - as David says just a casting.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/124461310@N05/sets/72157648041705056/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/124461310@N05/sets/72157648048810841/

[RLWP]

I don't have a car available ATM

 

A small jack would go under the bottom of the tiller arm

 

Anyone local with a scissor jack in their car - the one for changing wheels with

 

Richard

[David Mack]

I know Sculptor is a small Northwich but if the rudder arrangement is anything like the same there are some images on the links below of her out of the water in late September this year which may prove useful. No bearing at the top - as David says just a casting.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/124461310@N05/sets/72157648041705056/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/124461310@N05/sets/72157648048810841/

 

Fulbourne's arrangement is very similar to that on Sculptor. I would expect Baldock to be the same.

[p6rob]

I can probably help tomorrow. Be later than 10:00 though, more likely midday. Just scrapped my car and the replacement still isn't ready, so relying on public transport. I can bring a block and tackle and ratchet straps if it'll be of any use.

 

Rob

[matty40s]

I am not sure going back to camp hill locks is a good idea, I had to bow haul her out of the lock over the rubbish mounds.

Any help at all is appreciated rob. The girder bridge looks an ideal lifting spot.

I am bringing a small scissor jack with me in the morning. I also have lots of t bags and milk but you need to bring a cup!!

[p6rob]

I'll get there as soon as possible. Give me a shout if you get it sorted before though. Have you got my number still?

[matty40s]

I'll get there as soon as possible. Give me a shout if you get it sorted before though. Have you got my number still?

I have sent a message to the one that I think is yours off my old phone.

[junior]

Absolutely no help whatsoever I'm afraid but if this was any other week I'd have been sat around with nothing to do. As it's Christmas I have just arrived at my mothers on the South coast.

 

Good luck getting sorted guys.

Edited December 19, 2014 by junior

[matty40s]

Absolutely no help whatsoever I'm afraid but if this was any other week I'd have been sat around with nothing to do. As it's Christmas I have just arrived at my mothers on the South coast.

 

Good luck getting sorted guys.

well your mother can make the tea and cake as well.....

[Janet S]

Can't offer any help I'm afraid, but posting to bring this back to the top so it isn't overlooked.

 

Good luck!

 

Janet

[Wanderer Vagabond]

I'm just the other side of Gas Street moored by Sheepcote so about 1.5 miles away as the crow flies. Unfortunately haven't got a car or jack (until Monday when I hire one). I'm tied up first thing tomorrow as I've got to get to Nuneaton but once back I don't have plans.

 

I'm wondering from, what you've described, what has actually happened to the rudder. If you have no top bearing, just a casting, then theoretically if the rudder comes off the skeg you should just be able to lift it up back into the cup. If however you are saying that the rudder is jammed and you cannot either lift it up or turn it, would this suggest that the skeg itself has been bent? Is the rudder being crimped between the skeg and the bottom of the boat which is why you cannot move it? If that is the case then perhaps Fade to Scarlet's idea of going back into the lock and draining it (and the pound below it) might be the way forward to get to look at the underside of the boat. Still need a jack but to put force between the skeg and the bottom of the boat (with protection to stop you punching a hole through the boat). I'd be loathe to suggest putting force down on the swan neck to try to straighten the skeg because you could end out with a bent skeg and a bent rudder stock.

 

The reason I suggest this is because when I cilled mine on the Watford locks earlier in the summer I broke my top bearing which caused the rudder to come out of the cup on the skeg. I was still able to steer the boat a couple of miles down to Weltonfield to get it fixed although the tiller was very sloppy, but if it is jammed it suggests that it is trapped by something and my first thought would be the skeg.

[alan_fincher]

Just to be absolutely clear, are you saying absolutely no movement is currently possible in any direction?

 

Not upwards, downwards, tilting sideways either way, or any rotation in either direction ?

 

Which way is the tiller currently pointing?

 

What it happening to tip of the rudder?

 

If you try and get a hand in between rudder and uxter, is there a gap, or is part of the rudder bearing upwards onto the uxter?

 

Normally if they are out of the cup, and the bottom hanging loose, I would expect you to be able to move something.

 

I can't immediately think of too many possibilities that would immobilise the rudder completely? I suppose it is theoretically possibly if the skeg itself has been bent physically upwards, but it seems unlikely - can anybody else suggest some possibilities, please?

[matty40s]

It moved for about 50 yards and then completely jammed.

Looking at the pics of fulbourne above, I think it dislodged onto the edge of the cup towards the front,, and a couple of sideways steers then made it drop into the curved skeg, jamming it.

[David Mack]

On Fulbourne the rudder shaft has suffered rather a lot of corrosion around the water line, and had gained a slight bend at the thin point. As a result, if the bottom of the shaft came out of the cup, and slipped to one side it would rest on the edge of the cup, if it fell the other side the shaft would drop down alongside the cup and tend to get wedged. If this happened it could be a bit of a struggle to lift it back, but we always managed it.

 

We have since had the shaft straightened and a sleeve welded over the thin bit. As a result if we ground the rudder it can't move much to the side and usually drops straight back in. But it is now very difficult to actually get the rudder in or out.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

It moved for about 50 yards and then completely jammed.

Looking at the pics of fulbourne above, I think it dislodged onto the edge of the cup towards the front,, and a couple of sideways steers then made it drop into the curved skeg, jamming it.

I've tried blowing up the photos of Fulbourne and it looks as though the skeg is actually flat on top. I've looked at photos of mine (probably not relevant) when it was out for blacking and it is a T-shaped piece of metal, flat on top with a cross piece welded underneath to give stiffness. If you were travelling forwards when it happened it seems odd that the rudder would have dislodged onto the front edge of the cup, I would have thought if it were going to dislodge it would go onto the rear of the cup. That said, it seems odd that you were able to go for 50 yards before it jammed solid. I'm not disputing anything that you are saying though, just thinking out loud. Along with the comment of Alan F I can't think of what would jam the rudder solid, when they come out of the cup they can be a real pig but they do still move (a bit!)

Edited December 19, 2014 by Wanderer Vagabond

[alan_fincher]

Along with the comment of Alan F I can't think of what would jam the rudder solid, when they come out of the cup they can be a real pig but they do still move (a bit!)

 

I tend to agree.

 

If you lifted the rudder out by it riding over something when going forwards, then it will surely more likely get dragged backwards away from the forward movement of the boat.

 

I can't see how it could easily end up forward of its correct position, unless you ran it into something going backwards.

 

I'm tempted to think it could have dropped to one side, (in which case it might initially have been balanced just out of the cup at first, but slipped off, as you tried to carry on using it?). However I wonder if you you might then expect the tiller to look tilted to the opposite side to which the rudder has dropped ?