CRT are 'onto' the false bidding scam.

[magnetman]

You win by the bid increment so you will always win, or lose, by a small amount if you are the highest or second highest bidder, its the way it works.

 

An item (say an old dirty white and blueish plate with sort of goldish coloured bits) is listed for £5. you bid £8.75 for it. The winning bidder bids £25,000 for it but they get it for £9.25.

[GUMPY]

Not always by the bid increment.

I always bid odd ammounts like £111.11

Once won a laptop I bid 4hrs before the end, in the dying seconds another bidder bid £111.00 so I won by 11p

Bet he was miffed......

[magnetman]

Not always by the bid increment.

I always bid odd ammounts like £111.11

Once won a laptop I bid 4hrs before the end, in the dying seconds another bidder bid £111.00 so I won by 11p

Bet he was miffed......

 

oh yes but not more than the increment. at least i don't think so

[Delta9]

Dutch auction. If the bidder doesn't payup within 24hrs the auction re-starts.

[Detling]

Dutch auction. If the bidder doesn't payup within 24hrs the auction re-starts.

Totally agree Dutch auction and to help those with poor internet connections set the step time to 30 minutes or so, giving everyone time to see the price and press the buy button. The auction may take a day or so but will be fair and honest and if as Delta9 says no money paid we carry on the auction then eventually the mooring will sell. ( If CRT wish they can change the mooring period to a year once the price falls below their preferred minimum as long as everyone knows that )

[MtB]

 

 

CRT Raising Money off Moorings

 

I see a good number of CRT online moorings sitting empty ... and boats lingering opposite ... owned by people who would be happy to pay a reasonable fee for those empty moorings ... say £900pa ... rather than £2000pa. Rather than setting a minimum acceptable auction bid, wouldn't it be more financially sound for CRT to hire 10 out of 10 moorings @ £900 rather than 3 out of 10 moorings @ £2000?

 

 

No not necessarily.

 

Let's take your example. CRT list the seven vacant moorings at £900 each. I contend the three boaters paying £2k would each buy one at £900 and terminate their £2k moorings agreements. Net result is CRT now get £2.7k a year instead of £6k a year.

 

Maybe a few more might sell at £900 but I doubt all would.

 

Can you at least now see why CRT are reluctant to reduce reserve prices?

 

MtB

Edited December 11, 2014 by Mike the Boilerman

[Allan(nb Albert)]

 

 

 

 

No not necessarily.

 

Let's take your example. CRT list the seven vacant moorings at £900 each. I contend the three boaters paying £2k would each buy one at £900 and terminate their £2k moorings agreements. Net result is CRT now get £2.7k a year instead of £6k a year.

 

Maybe a few more might sell at £900 but I doubt all would.

 

Can you at least now see why CRT are reluctant to reduce reserve prices?

 

MtB

 

The other reason, of course, is the knock on effect on BWML and other marina operators.

 

If CaRT really priced LTM's on market value by removing or reducing reserve price then marina prices would reduce.

[Mike Todd]

Why don't they offer them at a fair market price, First come first served. I hate auctions.

In the 'old' days when this was how they were sold, there were frequent suspicions that they all went to people 'in the know' and the rest never got a look in.

[Paul C]

 

I don't know. I often bid for records on eBay and I get exasperated when I am beaten by somebody who places a bid in the last five or ten seconds, just as I thought that I had won myself a nice little slab of rare vinyl. I don't mind if the bid is fifty quid more than mine because I would not have gone so high anyway, but to lose by a piffling 50p is peeving. I have not heard of any move to make the ending times flexible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I often do that, and sometimes it works, and some times it doesn't. It all depends on the maximum bid made by the last bidder. If you really want something, you have to decide how much you would be prepared to pay, add ten percent and make that your maximum bid, If you loose then your only consoplation is that the fool who won it has more money, or less sense than yourself. That is how it works.

 

I recently won an item at 50p more than the last person's maximum bid. He may have been peeved, but he should have bid more if he really wanted it, Mind you I was prepared to pay seven pounds more than his maximum bid, so in my mind I did quite well.

 

 

You win by the bid increment so you will always win, or lose, by a small amount if you are the highest or second highest bidder, its the way it works.

 

An item (say an old dirty white and blueish plate with sort of goldish coloured bits) is listed for £5. you bid £8.75 for it. The winning bidder bids £25,000 for it but they get it for £9.25.

 

 

Not always by the bid increment.

I always bid odd ammounts like £111.11

Once won a laptop I bid 4hrs before the end, in the dying seconds another bidder bid £111.00 so I won by 11p

Bet he was miffed......

 

The final selling price on a contested eBay auction is set by the highest bid of the 2nd highest bidder + an amount not more than the bid increment. Its possible to bid any amount, so for example if an item is at £500 and the bid increments are currently £10 (the bid increments are related to the current price, in steps) but you expect the bids to "top out" at for example £800, then bidding (for example) £801 would allow you to win. Of course, others may do this so you could enter eg £803.22 or something higher but not a multiple of the bid increment, which would save you £9 or £6.78 respectively. It makes sense as auction price increases and the bid increment increases.

[MtB]

Except Ebay don't conduct auctions at all, in the legal sense of the word.

 

A real auction keeps on going until no more bids are forthcoming from the room. No artificially set deadline.

 

 

Mtb

[dccruiser]

In my opinion to stop anyone messing up mooring auctions they should give a guide price then accept sealed bids.

Also potential bidder's could be registered and required to submit a 25% deposit on the top guide price only refundable should they legitimately be outbid , but be non returnable should they win and not complete.

 

Rick

[Dave_P]

In my opinion to stop anyone messing up mooring auctions they should give a guide price then accept sealed bids.

Also potential bidder's could be registered and required to submit a 25% deposit on the top guide price only refundable should they legitimately be outbid , but be non returnable should they win and not complete.

 

Rick

They used to do sealed bids. An awful system.

[alan_fincher]

They used to do sealed bids. An awful system.

 

Absolutely.

 

Was fairly effective at maximising profits for BW, but like Russian Roulette for those bidding, and at a stroke did more to make towpath moorings inaccessible to those who in the past might have got one than you might possibly imagine.

 

We did manage to get our first BW mooring this way, but only after we learned that someone who had outbid us had defaulted. Once that had happened we were then nearly £500 per year over the next bidder, so for the three years of our contract paid something approaching £1,500 more than we might have secured the mooring for.

 

A desperately unfair system, and one that they quite rightly scrapped. Open bidding may be flawed in many ways, but is nothing like as appalling as the sealed bids were.

 

I have little doubt the intention of sealed bids was solely to try and push all mooring prices through the roof, not just those being sold in thatt waty.

[Athy]

 

 

 

.

 

I have little doubt the intention of sealed bids was solely to try and push all mooring prices through the roof, not just those being sold in thatt waty.

Aren't some houses sold in thatt waty that way, too? Or has that practice been discontinued?

[Robbo]

Aren't some houses sold in thatt waty that way, too? Or has that practice been discontinued?

Scotland I think.

[Dave_P]

The sealed bid system would be slightly fairer if the winning bidder only paid £1 more than the runner up. But it would still be unfair.

[MtB]

And if the 'runner up' had been a false bid with no intention of completing?

 

 

MtB

[wreckferret]

Given that the trust would like to see all boats with a home mooring (just my opinion) would it not make sense to simplify the whole process ?

It would also help if all the available moorings were actually advertised rather than sat empty waiting for web space......

[dccruiser]

And if the 'runner up' had been a false bid with no intention of completing?

 

 

MtB

If as i said a deposit is taken if the runner up failed to complete they would also lose 25%

 

Rick

Edited December 13, 2014 by dccruiser

[wreckferret]

If as i said a deposit is taken if the runner up failed to complete they would also lose 25%

 

Rick

Wouldn't have an issue with a deposit but 25% would be out of reach for many. Nothing wrong with the current 4% but payable upon first bid rather than on completion.