Help with larger Pulley Wheel

[Liam]

Hi, hoping someone can possibly help....

 

I have an alternator with a small pulley wheel coupled to a slow revving engine with the standard small pulley wheel fixed onto the crank shaft.

 

Due to the low revs the output of the alternator is practically nil so I'm looking at fixing a larger pulley wheel onto the crankshaft to make the alternator spin faster.

 

The issue that I have is that the clearance between the end of the crankshaft and bulkhead is only about half an inch.

 

Therefore I am wondering whether it is possible to get something like this which would slot over the crankshaft rather than be placed on via the end (impossible due to clearance).

 

http://galleryplus.ebayimg.com/ws/web/380433112793_1_0_1/1000x1000.jpg

 

The only other option is to remove the engine but thats not something I want to do.

 

Thanks all in advance.

 

Liam.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Liam

[Ray T]

Who ya gonna call?

 

RLWP: http://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/

Edited November 15, 2014 by Ray T

[John V]

http://www.sprocketpulleyscoupling.com/taper-lock-pulleys.html

 

what about these?

[RLWP]

Saw the end off the crankshaft

 

Richard

 

Your best bet is to unbolt the engine and push it back to give clearance

Edited November 15, 2014 by RLWP

[dmr]

I don't understand! The pulley you show still has to go on over the end so with only 1/2 inch it ill be difficult, and you still need a way of making it tight!

Can you post a picture of the end of the engine?

Any new pulley needs a good clean straight bit of shaft to fix to and a way of fixing it.

Don't forget that if you make the crank pulley really big then you reduce the belt wrap on the alternator pulley.

 

............Dave

[Bee]

That looks like the pulley from a washing machine. I think you will find that whatever you do you will need access to the front of the flywheel or crankshaft and you will have to shove the engine back a bit. Call it a winter project. You may be able to drill and tap the front of the flywheel if you have one and bolt the rim of the pulley to it, what engine is it?

Edited November 15, 2014 by Bee

[Timleech]

I know you have an HA2, is it the standard Lister arrangement with the flywheel on the front?

If so, what you call the 'crankshaft' will actually be a stub shaft, bolted to the front of the flywheel. You could unbolt this, get a pulley fitted, and then refit. You might need a bit more clearance to refit, with pulley attached, than was needed to remove. I'd go for a pulley with Taperlock fitting, this can be slid along the shaft and then clamped when properly aligned.

Does this mean you've finally given up with that screeching alternnator?

 

Tim

[dmr]

OK, if there is a stub shaft in place it might just be possible, if your really lucky

option 1

Unbolt stub shaft, fit new Taperlock pulley, refit shaft, but I bet the new pulley will prevent access to the bolts

Option 2

Slide/wriggle taperlock pulley over end of stub shaft, but unlikely if you really only have 1/2 inch to spare,

then insert taperlock sections and do up with Allen key

Option 3

Unbolt stub shaft, fit taperlock pulley without taperlock.

Do up bolts getting access by moving pulley as much as you can.

insert and tighten taperlock

option 4

Move the engine a bit, much better!

 

..............Dave

[alan_fincher]

I know you have an HA2, is it the standard Lister arrangement with the flywheel on the front?

If so, what you call the 'crankshaft' will actually be a stub shaft, bolted to the front of the flywheel. You could unbolt this, get a pulley fitted, and then refit. You might need a bit more clearance to refit, with pulley attached, than was needed to remove. I'd go for a pulley with Taperlock fitting, this can be slid along the shaft and then clamped when properly aligned.

Does this mean you've finally given up with that screeching alternnator?

 

Tim

 

Tim,

 

A bit interested in this, because it is a problem I might like to solve myself one day, (HA3). It kind of charges for our meagre needs (single battery), and hasn't been an issue to date, but I would quite like it to charge better.

 

I've not inspected closely what I have, but it does involve having all the stuff for an overhead hand start.

 

From memory, the "sprocket", (if that word will do!), that takes the chain for that sits further out than the pulley that drives the alternator - does that sound right?

 

If that's the case, too what extent does it complicate trying to fit a bigger alternator pulley, please?

[Tom and Bex]

I shall also be following this topic with some interest. We have an HA3 and although it keeps up with charging when on a long cruise, it would be nice to be able to use it as a back up charging source (for emergencies only due to noise!) and also for it to put in some meaningful charge on short cruises or idling in locks etc. Particularly now we're moving to a mooring with no mains hook up.

 

We also have the raised hand start and I believe the existing pulley also incorporates the ratchet mechanism for this. The easiest way would be to remove the hand start completely then you could just add a pulley quite easily onto the existing stub shaft, but it would be nice to keep the hand start as back up just in case (and I quite often like to use it just because it's there!)

 

Tom

[Kwacker]

Could you drive a lay shaft off the existing pulley, then use a bigger pulley from the layshaft to the alternator?

Edited November 16, 2014 by Kwacker

[Timleech]

 

Tim,

 

A bit interested in this, because it is a problem I might like to solve myself one day, (HA3). It kind of charges for our meagre needs (single battery), and hasn't been an issue to date, but I would quite like it to charge better.

 

I've not inspected closely what I have, but it does involve having all the stuff for an overhead hand start.

 

From memory, the "sprocket", (if that word will do!), that takes the chain for that sits further out than the pulley that drives the alternator - does that sound right?

 

If that's the case, too what extent does it complicate trying to fit a bigger alternator pulley, please?

 

I think, from memory, normally there's room on the stub shaft for another pulley but this would require modified or new alternator mountings.

 

Tim

[Sir Nibble]

Possibly an application for the slow speed alternator mod?

[magnetman]

I would have thought changing the alternator rather than the pulley might be worth looking at

 

What alternator is on and what rpm is it turning at?

 

Some of the bigger ones like the Leece Neville / Prestolite 555 have high output even at fairly modest rpm

 

This would of course need a redesigned and beefed up alternator mount but it might be an option

 

?

[magnetman]

http://www.prestolite.com/pgs_products/specs.php?item_detail_id=802&item=8LHA2070VB&product=ALTERNATOR

 

8LHA2070VB large frame alternator claims 90a at 12v at 2000rpm.

 

Don't know what the cruise rpm is for an HA but if it were 1000 rpm then a 2:1 pulley would be ok.

 

Pretty sure the big ones are rather more durable and can withstand higher temperatures than standard alternators as well.

 

I think 90a is just about feasible through a good quality single V belt although a twin belt would probably be better.

 

(edited to change link to web page rather than google search result)

Edited November 16, 2014 by magnetman

[Timleech]

Possibly an application for the slow speed alternator mod?

 

Thinking back to Hotel Boat days, we had an HB2 with the original dynamo which was retained for starter battery charging, and an AC5 mounted independently of the engine driven from a quite modestly sized extra pulley. I think the AC5 was a factory-fitted option on later HR engines.

 

Tim

[Tam & Di]

Could you drive a lay shaft off the existing pulley, then use a bigger pulley from the layshaft to the alternator?

 

That's what Tim Wood fitted to our Gardner 6LW. It gives us pullies for our domestic and engine-start 24v alternators and hydraulic pump for bow thruster and anchor winch. This is obviously much more than would be required for a narrowboat, but the point is the installation is very tidy and takes up no more room than the engine itself.

 

Tam

[Sir Nibble]

I didn't mean to change the alternator, I meant to modify it. It all depends on the alternator type but I have had considerable success with very low speed A127 alternators.

[Tom and Bex]

I didn't mean to change the alternator, I meant to modify it. It all depends on the alternator type but I have had considerable success with very low speed A127 alternators.

Could you expand on this mod at all? What is it, and What sort of charge at what speeds?

 

Thanks

 

Tom

[magnetman]

 

That's what Tim Wood fitted to our Gardner 6LW. It gives us pullies for our domestic and engine-start 24v alternators and hydraulic pump for bow thruster and anchor winch. This is obviously much more than would be required for a narrowboat, but the point is the installation is very tidy and takes up no more room than the engine itself.

 

Tam

 

Thats sounds like an excellent setup. Any pictures of it? Is it a shaft mounted on plummer blocks with pulleys on it? and is it all mounted above the engine? I am intrigued how it takes up no extra space, I assume you mean doesn't increase the engine 'footprint'.

[Guest]

 

That's what Tim Wood fitted to our Gardner 6LW. It gives us pullies for our domestic and engine-start 24v alternators and hydraulic pump for bow thruster and anchor winch. This is obviously much more than would be required for a narrowboat, but the point is the installation is very tidy and takes up no more room than the engine itself.

 

Tam

Would you have a pic. of that. I would be very interested in seeing such an installation. Thanks.

[magnetman]

great minds like a think

[magnetman]

\there is a photo on the advert for Tam's boat, not very explicit but you can see it a bit

 

here

 

http://www.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=231588

certainly a well kitted out vessel if I may say so

[Tam & Di]

 

Thats sounds like an excellent setup. Any pictures of it? Is it a shaft mounted on plummer blocks with pulleys on it? and is it all mounted above the engine? I am intrigued how it takes up no extra space, I assume you mean doesn't increase the engine 'footprint'.

 

Sorry - yes, I meant it does not increase the engine footprint. Fitting a layshaft opened up several possibilities that would have been difficult otherwise.

 

I don't have a photo showing that side of the engine - only the one you linked to in our ad. The Gardner was bought from Trinity House who had it as a stand-by generator. It is date stamped 9/12/74 and it had had virtually no use when we got it. We also found a TwinDisc box to marinise it and Tim fitted a pulley between the 6LW and the Twindisc. The layshaft is mounted on plummer blocks on the engine beds and driven from this pulley. The alternators are contra-rotating, i.e. one is clockwise and one anti-clockwise, mounted face to face above the Twindisc and needing only one drive belt. They are protected by the wire cage just visible in the photo. They are quite a bit lower than the rocker covers on the 6LW. The hydraulic take-off is at the other end of the layshaft. We did have a further take-off for a 2" water pump as one means of pumping bilges and fire/deckwash, but changed that to a Clarkes electric one so we did not need to run the engine to wash decks etc.

 

Tam

Edited November 16, 2014 by Tam & Di

[magnetman]

nice

That sounds like a good setup to run from a pulley between the engine and gearbox - I would expect that much power coming off a crankshaft pulley might be a bit awkward for some engines because of side thrust

Is the pump in the photo the deck wash pump?

(blue pump i mean)