Borked Electricity service post - twice - is it me?

[Lady Muck]

Before I go back to my moorings warden with my tail between my legs wanted to ask opinion and for help on here. Ten days back, our elec went off, unexpectedly as I'd just put a card in for over a tenners worth.

Went outside, had a look, it was dead, pressed the test switch, the display said 'Power Failure' and the alarm went off until I switched it off.

Called mooring warden, turned boat around, plugged into the service post that isn't being used on the other side. They sent someone to look at it the next day (great service, CRT!). They determined we need a new card reader.

Anyway, long story short, ten days on, same thing has happened. Again. Which must point to something on our boat. Shouldn't it?

What should we be testing? We unplugged the boat today to go and cruise and buy diesel and we note the plug had water in it. We tested it and it seemed ok. Could it be that? Any domestic appliances known to damage these things? Are we to blame?

Edited November 5, 2014 by Lady Muck

[David Mack]

I would have thought a service bollard should be designed to be proof against the sort of misuse it might get from unsuitable appliances or dodgy boat wiring. So no its failure isn't your fault.

[magnetman]

I've tripped the RCD on my CRT electric bollard a couple of times when I got the top of the immersion heater damp by spilling water on it accidentally. It just resets with a switch. I don't think its possible to actually damage an electric bollard/service post with anything on the boat in the sense of it needing to be repaired.

 

It would obviously be possible to continually trip the RCD by having a constant fault on the boat or an overload.

maybe the original failure was bodge-repaired rather than fixed and its just failed again?

[Machpoint005]

It didn't happen until very recently so it's not a fundamental fault with your boat system -- something has changed!

[Lady Muck]

It's a different service post we've just broken, we swapped while we wait for a new card reader for the first broken one - if it's us that did it, I'm trying to work out how to troubleshoot what it might be - any suggestions?

In the past the rcd as tripped from someone using power tools or us having the microwave and toaster on at the same time, but it hasn't tripped for ages and ages.

They serviced it a few months back and said the rcd was broken and repaired. I'm now wondering if the rcd on this other post is bust, too? We have just checked our mains hook up cable and tested it and it is fine.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Lady Muck

[magnetman]

you didn't accidentally hit it with a hammer or anything?

 

or could it be dodgy magnetic stripe cards somehow damaging the reader by being pushed in too fast?

 

do yours say 'insert with sharp stabbing motion' on them?

[Paul C]

Do you have an inverter on the boat, you've not sent them some of your 230V by accident have you? Even so, it shouldn't break the bollard, but will trip its RCD etc.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Lady Muck

[Lady Muck]

Yes magnetman I reckon our cards are the same as yours, nothing happens, maybe it's pure coincidence. Anyway we have tried drinking a bottle of wine and it still doesn't work!

 

We have an inverter but it's not on the ring main and is only used for running spin dryer and single tub washer when we are cruising.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Lady Muck

[magnetman]

try another bottle of wine, then another then it won't matter

[John V]

I cannot think of anything that you could do to the output of a bollard that would cause an RCD/MCB combination or an RCBO to fail.

If you have developed a talent for destructive testing maybe another employment opportunity may be knocking?

[jonesthenuke]

Is the equipment in good condition or is there a chance that rain is getting in? It would not need much to trip the rcd.

[John V]

It's designed to detect a fault and trip.....therefore no fault that you have can damage it....it would just trip

[Lady Muck]

I cannot think of anything that you could do to the output of a bollard that would cause an RCD/MCB combination or an RCBO to fail.

If you have developed a talent for destructive testing maybe another employment opportunity may be knocking?

 

My partner says all boaters would qualify for destructive testing. What with things constantly needing fixing. But ......Maybe it's just me. 2014 seems to have been the year of breaking stuff, for me. Now where's the wine.....

[MtB]

We unplugged the boat today to go and cruise and buy diesel and we note the plug had water in it. We tested it and it seemed ok. Could it be that?

 

 

Most definitely YES it could be that. Water inside a plug can cause a short circuit even if the water does not touch the pins or conductors as it causes a layer of condensation on everything inside the plug when the temperature falls at night.

 

The service post ought to be able to cope with it though, simply tripping and turning the leccy OFF. If the post has busted, I'd say the post is faulty too.

 

 

MtB

 

 

 

(Edit to highlight the important bit)

Edited November 5, 2014 by Mike the Boilerman

[Lady Muck]

Ok, thanks makes sense.

[MtB]

I must have explained it wrong then...

 

 

MtB

[Lady Muck]

What do you reckon then? Should another bottle of wine sort things?

[MtB]

NO silly!

 

A new, properly waterproof plug is the answer...!

 

Well I suppose you could try it though, if no work tomorrow

 

 

MtB

[Phil Ambrose]

 

 

Most definitely YES it could be that. Water inside a plug can cause a short circuit even if the water does not touch the pins or conductors as it causes a layer of condensation on everything inside the plug when the temperature falls at night.

 

The service post ought to be able to cope with it though, simply tripping and turning the leccy OFF. If the post has busted, I'd say the post is faulty too.

 

 

MtB

 

 

 

(Edit to highlight the important bit)

I am with Mike on this one, water in the plug will cause an earth leakage fault which will cause the trip to fall out, but if the pylon is kaput, well that is another matter.

Phil

[Paul G2]

If the bollards have the same card readers installed at the same time, it would indicate that the card readers are at the end of their functional life. Most electrical parts are really well made, they have to be to be safe from the start. It is not uncommon to come across electrical installations that 100+ years old where everything is working fine. I used to regularly work on electrical systems that were 50 - 70 years old and the original parts were working just fine.

 

The card reader, though, is an electronic part and those do wear out. In your case it is most likely either just coincidence or all of the readers in that area will be needing replacement in the next few years just because they are the same product wearing out at about the same time.

[Nickhlx]

Is it tripping through earth leakage or over-current being drawn - i.e. are you drawing too much current through it - The breaker will say what its max current capability is - most Marina ones are 6 Amp unless you are lucky and get a 16 amp one. Perhaps you are using something extra now that its a bit colder ? ( immersion / toaster / charger etc etc )

 

Nick

[Lady Muck]

Ours are 16 amp.

Well they are all only about six years old. We are swapping the plugs, anyhow.

[Radiomariner]

I go along with the water ingress idea. Even as mentioned in a previous post the water does not need to touch the conducting components. The problem very often is the condensation from that water over the insulating materials. When this happens, arcing occurs first over the surface of the insulation, but it can cause 'tracking' across the insulators. This 'tracking' of carbonised insulating material can be conductive even after all has been dried out.

[Phil Ambrose]

I go along with the water ingress idea. Even as mentioned in a previous post the water does not need to touch the conducting components. The problem very often is the condensation from that water over the insulating materials. When this happens, arcing occurs first over the surface of the insulation, but it can cause 'tracking' across the insulators. This 'tracking' of carbonised insulating material can be conductive even after all has been dried out.

As used to happen when cars had distributers (remember them?)

Phil

[alan_fincher]

Yes, but as has been said, none of this should ever permanently damage any part of the shore equipment.

 

Trip out, yes, but to cause any physical damage, definitely not.

 

If that is happening, even if water in your plugs is a factor, then there is more wrong than just your plugs.

Edited November 6, 2014 by alan_fincher