Seats on a Trad stern (see pic) - a great idea, or asking for the occasional swim?

[Southern Star]

 

So is that the same boat as the one with the young man?

 

 

Well, what do you think?

[Bettie Boo]

Southern Star

 

I consider myself a complete novice, we've only had our boat for 8 months, and in total I've got about 15 - 20 hours on the tiller (I'm much more comfortable, baking and operating the locks), but even to me that looks to be an extremely dangerous position to take whilst in control of the throttle and rudder.

 

Also, we've traveled a fair few miles this past 4 months, I've not seen anyone in control of their rudder sitting on their roof with their legs & feet dangling over the water side of the boat. Seen loads sitting on the their roof with legs/feet dangling inside the hatch by the controls, actually Dave quite often adapts this stance when we are on a straight stretch if his legs or back are getting tired.

[GoodGurl]

Southern Star i think what they were trying to say about the lad steering the boat was "how can he steer the boat with his left hand and use the throttle with his right hand"

if you look at the pic (i know you took it) he would have to

1. lean across himself thus taking his eyes off the canal by leaning down OR

2. stretch his right arm around his back and over to the throttle, (so i doubt he does this)..

[system 4-50]

Isn't it time somebody invented a way of having the throttle on the tiller? (waves fluffy bunny furiously).

[patty-ann]

Having forgotten about the hour we gained overnight I've usefully??? spent time reading through this thread.

Although being mere novice and not really qualified to comment I'm going to anyway.

I will not call anyone idiotic....let their posts speak for themselves.

IMO it looks 1) Very uncomfortable way of controlling narrowboat...bum numbing...play havoc if sciatic nerve issues

2) Not terribly safe...

I would assess facts as delivered by those with greater experience and knowledge on the subject...otherwise why start thread?

I would then follow suggestions or if I carried on as before then any accident accept responsibility, amidst no doubt a few "told you so's"

 

I have seen someone steering in that fashion whilst female sunbathed on roof...I was not impressed.

Isn't it time somebody invented a way of having the throttle on the tiller? (waves fluffy bunny furiously).

just to add....what are you doing waving a fluffy bunny...poor thing

[IanM]

 

I've not seen anyone in control of their rudder sitting on their roof with their legs & feet dangling over the water side of the boat.

In the 15+ years I've been regularly boating I can't say that I've seen anyone sit steering with their legs over the side either.

[NickF]

 

Now I wasn't aware that DARWIN had any experience of boating,

 

He actually sailed round the world on The Beagle so had huge experience of boating ... but probably not on inland waterways!

[Felshampo]

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I must say that I've been on the internet for over 15 years now and there are more idiots on this forum than every other forum I've ever been on put together.

 

[NickF]

[/url]

 

 

I must say that I've been on the internet for over 15 years now and there are more idiots on this forum than every other forum I've ever been on put together.

 

Welcome to the forum!

[Rob-M]

I have a boat with Traditional stern and taff rails. If the boat hadn't ticked all our boxes I would not have purchased it due to the taff rails as I hate the things and they may well be cut off at some point. I find they get in the way when trying to get on and off the boat and the stern line gets wrapped round them when mooring up. I certainly would never risk mine or anyone else's life by letting someone sit on them whilst the boat is moving. We have an oversized hatch so two of us can stand in the hatch space whilst boating. My tiller is not long enough to steer comfortably whilst sitting on the roof but I do sit on the roof on other boats I steer but always with feet inside ready to drop on to the step if needs arise, such as approaching a narrow bridge or overhanging tree. I would like to see the steerer in the picture drop off the roof quickly in an emergency without going in the cut and keeping the boat under control.

[captain birdseye]

I'm new to this so you'll have to forgive me, but how come everybody else who steers from the roof of a trad sits in exactly the same position?

I have been steering traditional style boats on and off for years and never have sat like the guy in the picture, nor have I ever seen anybody else sit like that. You should always sit with legs inside the hatch IMO

[Gordias]

I expect that by now both the owner and the eccentrically positioned helmsman in the picture have understood the issues and will change their behavior.

 

FWIW the same applies to me (the naive OP who thought those seats might be a good idea). I'm now convinced of the principle "on a moving boat, never stand within the arc of the tiller". The thread has also made me less interested in allowing people to stand on the gunwhale to chat with the helmsman.

 

That said, I'd like to repeat an earlier question (with a little more detail):

 

Assuming the boat was being professionally maintained for something else (e.g. blacking), what could it cost to get a wide hatch installed in a boat with only a standard/narrow hatch - specifically a wide hatch with an "imbedded" narrow one for solo cruising.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Gordias

[Rose Narrowboats]

I'm repeating what others have said on the whole but:

 

1) It doesn't look comfortable

2) To get down you are relying on landing on the gunwale - if you miss (and one day you will) you are going straight into the drink right next to the prop

3) You have no purchase. On a boat with a heavy rudder you'd push yourself overboard trying to make a hard turn to starboard - sat in the hatch you can brace with your legs'

4) You are outside the cabin profile - you might get scratched by a bramble, or might misjudge going through a bridgehole...

5) It gets habit forming. To those who say "I only sit down behind the tiller when the boat's going forward and never when maneuvering" that's just the thin end of the wedge. Assuming you are lucky and nothing comes up under the boat and gives the rudder a whack and you a fright you get complacent.

6) As a child, I would have been slapped silly by the ex-boatmen who taught me how to behave (sometimes, at least) for sitting there, or being in the tiller arc.

7) Finally, for anyone still tempted to stand/sit on the counter, we had a boat belonging to an experienced owner on our slip in the spring where (as a result of the gear cable failing) events had very rapidly resulted in him hitting the bank with such force that the rudder blade ended going right back under the counter to the point it nearly hit the prop (pics on our facebook if anyone's interested) .Anyone standing in the tiller's way would have been swept overboard while they were still trying to work out what was happening.

 

Just my two pennyworth

 

Anthony

[Peter X]

He actually sailed round the world on The Beagle so had huge experience of boating ... but probably not on inland waterways!

 

What he said, and additionally as Darwin studied at Cambridge (1828-31) he quite probably did do some inland boating, most likely on a rowing boat as these were being hired out to students by then; punting started much later. Also he grew up in Shrewsbury and may have had boating opportunities there.

[Sabcat]

Well, you see he has one hand on the tiller, and one free hand.

 

 

He slips his free hand down to the control panel which is just beneath his left buttock and adjusts the throttle. It's not exactly rocket science and I didn't need to take another look at the photo because believe it or not, I took the photo.

 

He'd be far better sat at the other side with his legs dangling into the hatch. I'm assuming there's a step there - there should be, it's where you want to be stood when steering, not on the deck. That's how I steer, sat on the roof, legs n the hatch opposite the morse control. It's rare that I need to just adjust speed but I can with my foot, more likely if I'm adjusting speed there's something else going on or likely to go on in which case I slide down so I'm stood on the step and in full control of the boat in less then a second. Your chappy up there has a bit of climbing to do before he's on the step and in control and depending on the stretch of cut he's on he might have to do it a lot - even if you can steer the amount needed from that position, you don't want to be going into a bend/bridge hole anywhere other than on the step. I might be coming the other way and if my boat's moving as a rule, I'm very, very drunk.

[Pykebird]

When I made my cruiser into a trad, I decided against having seats on the back. The hatch was deliberately made large enough for 2 people to stand in and I felt the small space at the back would be better left open. My tiller was also extended and raise to suit new deck.

I have a square stern and my dogs sit on the back deck whilst I either sit on the hatch with my legs inside or stand just inside the hatch.

This way I can reach the controls easily either sitting or standing. Its the way I drive and I feel safe.

[Tam & Di]

 

 

 

He slips his free hand down to the control panel which is just beneath his left buttock and adjusts the throttle. It's not exactly rocket science and I didn't need to take another look at the photo because believe it or not, I took the photo.

 

Is that your son steering? Hopefully he will have taken comments on this thread to heart about the dangers inherent in steering in that position.

 

The only reason I can imagine for him to be sat like that is that he is a complete novice and feels he needs to be able to look along the side of the boat to see where he is going? Does he drive a car with his left hand on the wheel and his head and right arm out of the driver's window? That would be as silly as this is.

 

Tam

 

As a p.s. I am an examiner for boating licences required on continental canals and I would fail anyone steering like that. Apart from the danger to themselves they would be incapable of reacting properly in any emergency.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Tam & Di

[magnetman]

Has he got just one leg?

 

This could make it very difficult to get into the normal steering position and could potentially explain the odd behaviour.

 

I have tried steering a trad narrow boat like this and I found that my arm holding the tiller got tired very quickly as it is an awkward angle, as can be seen in the picture.

I expect that by now both the owner and the eccentrically positioned helmsman in the picture have understood the issues and will change their behavior.

 

FWIW the same applies to me (the naive OP who thought those seats might be a good idea). I'm now convinced of the principle "on a moving boat, never stand within the arc of the tiller". The thread has also made me less interested in allowing people to stand on the gunwhale to chat with the helmsman.

 

That said, I'd like to repeat an earlier question (with a little more detail):

 

Assuming the boat was being professionally maintained for something else (e.g. blacking), what could it cost to get a wide hatch installed in a boat with only a standard/narrow hatch - specifically a wide hatch with an "imbedded" narrow one for solo cruising.

 

I've seen that but not sure which builder or if it was original. A 'semi trad' stern could be used to this effect with a decent cover over it with a cutout at the back for the steerer.

I suppose, going back to the picture, it might be something as simple as the boat just not having a steerers step, making it uncomfortable to hoist oneself up onto the hatch slide from inside.

Barney boats have slightly longer hatches than usual to accomodate two 'friendly' people while cruising in the safety and warmth while being able to see the views.

 

rather good i think.

[Neil2]

Whenever I see boats with this sort of arrangement I just point and laugh out loud. Honestly, if you really want to sit on the counter admit you made a mistake and buy a cruiser. You steer a trad by standing inside the cabin doors, that's all there is to it. Occasionally, maybe on one of those interminable straight stretches you find on the Shroppie or the North Oxford I would condone sitting on the cabin roof with legs dangling in the hatch.

 

I won't mention names but there is a fairly well known NB broker who admitted to me he swept his girlfriend off the stern deck into the cut when he once tried to steer a trad standing on the counter. I'm sure there was a similar incident with a pilot going through Standedge. It must happen all the time.

 

 

 

[cariad]

Whenever I see boats with this sort of arrangement I just point and laugh out loud. Honestly, if you really want to sit on the counter admit you made a mistake and buy a cruiser. You steer a trad by standing inside the cabin doors, that's all there is to it. Occasionally, maybe on one of those interminable straight stretches you find on the Shroppie or the North Oxford I would condone sitting on the cabin roof with legs dangling in the hatch.

 

I won't mention names but there is a fairly well known NB broker who admitted to me he swept his girlfriend off the stern deck into the cut when he once tried to steer a trad standing on the counter. I'm sure there was a similar incident with a pilot going through Standedge. It must happen all the time.

 

Be careful, 3 fellows laughed at my mule once, you better make that 4.

 

[Neil2]

 

 

Be careful, 3 fellows laughed at my mule once, you better make that 4.

 

If I ever come across that Boat With No Name I'll bear it in mind...