Is 7-1 too wide

[me1bee]

Hi, any information would be gladly appreciated. We are looking to purchase our first boat, and noticed that one we are interested in is 7-1 rather than the usual 6-10. It is 45ft long. Would this cause any issues with license or locks or insurance that anyone knows about?

[Arthur Brown]

Certainly run the risk of finding some locks too narrow, is this a measured width?

[Paul C]

I can't see the point of buying a 7'1" wide boat when there are loads of 6'10" ones around. If nothing else, will make it a big struggle to resell.

[junior]

I'd be inclined to ask the seller how they know it is this width. It could be a mistake on the sellers part and the boat could well be the usual 6'10".

[kevinl]

You have a WA postcode as your location so I guess you might live in Warrington, if so all the local canals won't be a problem Bridgewater, L&L, T&M and the Lancaster can all take a boat of that size, however, if you want a "go anywhere" boat then there are locks where even 6 feet 10 is tight.

I'd like to know why this boat has spread and what's been done to stop it keep happening even more, as the other guys have said, check it has been measured correctly, find out why it has spread and if there is a reason and it's been fixed then allow for the fact it will have a limited appeal on the wider network and hence a lower value, I have no idea what an insurance company might say but generally if you don't tick all the boxes as "normal" insurance can be an issue and they might apply special terms.

You can PM the details of the boat if you don't want to put them on here to anyone who's opinion you might seek, but generally the odds of someone on here trying to steal your "spread" boat are so remote I'd go public, post them and get so input from those in the know. All boats have a history there might be a previous owner on here with something to tell or someone who's had a survey done on it already and is still running away, your call but I hear the distant sounds of alarm bells on the width thing.

K

[NB Alton]

I'd agree, that it might be worth double checking that 7'1" dimension & if the boat was built to that gauge. There are plenty of old full length working boats around at this width & they don't have many problems getting around other than at a few pinch points where locks have narrowed / subsided such Hurleston.

 

Being a shorter boat, would also mean you would be more likely to get thru a pinch point also.

 

Cheers, Brian

[b0atman]

just remember at that width if its right there will be lots of unlisted locks that you will not get through and locks where gates do not fully open

[FadeToScarlet]

just remember at that width if its right there will be lots of unlisted locks that you will not get through and locks where gates do not fully open

Why would they be unlisted? HNBC have a list, compiled by members. Off the top of my head, I can say that 7'1" will have a problem with Hurleston bottom and second lock, but being short might fitthrough with shuffling; might need shuffling a bit in Northampton bottom lock; might find a couple of pinch points on one of the locks on the Napton flight (I forget which); and there's one or two others.

 

If gates don't open fully, you might need to use the keb to get stuff out from behind them, and in the worst case scenario, you might need to flush the boat out whilst wiggling one of the gates to get it through.

 

Boating with a wider boat will give you some challenges, but none of them are insurmountable, and then only occasionally, in the same way that buying a deep drafted or 72' long boat will also make boating more challenging occasionally. Certainly anyone who buys a wider boat should go into it with their eyes open, as the OP is doing, and accept that at a small handful of locks they might need to employ techniques like shuffling the boat around to avoid a pinch point, using a keb, or flushing.

[FadeToScarlet]

I can't see the point of buying a 7'1" wide boat when there are loads of 6'10" ones around. If nothing else, will make it a big struggle to resell.

Not necessarily.

 

I suspect that it might be a boat with part of a working boat, or a chopped down tug made from a working boat. There's plenty that are over 7' wide in places and if you're realistic about price and are careful to market it to other enthusiasts as well as Joe Public, you'd probably not struggle to sell.

 

My boat is 7' and 3/8" at the widest point (the sides are pretty corrugated from long abuse); the baseplate alone is 6'11" wide. For me, in order to have an historic boat, I had to accept that it would be wide (there weren't any Rivers or Admirals, built to 6'10", around in my price range) and accept that, at a very few locks, I would have to use some techniques to get through- in the same way that, being 72' long, I have to lift the bow and stern fenders at certain locks to be able to close and open the gates.

 

So, for me, I didn't much care it was wider, and I wouldn't swap it for another boat.

[dmr]

Its hard to give a definitive answer as boat shape is also a factor and some people say that the most troublesome lock (Llangollen) actually goes in and out with the seasons.

Llangollen will be the big issue, and Napton on the Oxford might just be an issue which is a bigger problem,

Also maybe the South Stratford and Huddersfield narrow.

Walsall might be difficult as the gates on Ryders Greenn never open fully but maybe you can live without Walsall.

 

Have heard rumours that Llangollen might be fixed

 

...............Dave

[ditchcrawler]

Why would they be unlisted? HNBC have a list, compiled by members. Off the top of my head, I can say that 7'1" will have a problem with Hurleston bottom and second lock, but being short might fitthrough with shuffling; might need shuffling a bit in Northampton bottom lock; might find a couple of pinch points on one of the locks on the Napton flight (I forget which); and there's one or two others.

 

If gates don't open fully, you might need to use the keb to get stuff out from behind them, and in the worst case scenario, you might need to flush the boat out whilst wiggling one of the gates to get it through.

 

Boating with a wider boat will give you some challenges, but none of them are insurmountable, and then only occasionally, in the same way that buying a deep drafted or 72' long boat will also make boating more challenging occasionally. Certainly anyone who buys a wider boat should go into it with their eyes open, as the OP is doing, and accept that at a small handful of locks they might need to employ techniques like shuffling the boat around to avoid a pinch point, using a keb, or flushing.

And how many new boaters carry a Keb. I have considered getting one but have manged without it for the passed 20 years, but I don't go far.

[Paul C]

 

 

Have heard rumours that Llangollen might be fixed

 

 

 

Its not fixed! (And I assume when you say Llangollen, you mean Hurleston bottom lock). They did something to it last winter, it might be that its now slightly wider so boats which previously didn't get through are trying again, but last time we were in the area lots of boats were still getting stuck in it.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Paul C

[FadeToScarlet]

Its not fixed! (And I assume when you say Llangollen, you mean Hurleston bottom lock). They did something to it last winter, it might be that its now slightly wider so boats which previously didn't get through are trying again, but last time we were in the area lots of boats were still getting stuck in it.

I think dmr meant "might be fixed in the future", certainly Richard Parry has talked about doing work on it.

[MtB]

REGINALD at ever so slightly under 7ft won't fit into Hurleston lock.

 

He passes through the tight locks on the southern Stratford and in the Napton flight just fine though.

 

I wouldn't buy a 7ft 1in boat though, unless there was a very special reason to. Simply asking for trouble. Most locks will be fine but it only takes ONE and you trip is ruined. You have to reverse to the nearest winding hole (could be miles) then go back from where you came.

 

MtB

[Peter X]

Reading this topic for my general boating education, I wondered what a keb is, so googled it.

Clearly you are not discussing Korea Exchange Bank, so I tried again with "keb tool" and, unsurprisingly, the first relevant answer to come up was on CW. Anyone else who didn't know may find this useful:

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=28965

Post #11 of that old topic, by Magnetman, has a link to a picture of an old one with only a short handle. He'd fished it out of a canal, and I suppose it would originally have had a longer handle? He said:

 

I've got a picture of a keb I had out with the magnet, in my gallery of magnet finds:

http://www.canalworl...p...si&img=1368

Also known as a 'weed rake' or a 'drag'

A keb is a very useful tool indeed.

I have recovered an unusual flat-tined version, a beautiful hand forged tool which according to a BW friend was more easy to handle and more efficient in use. Its a Grand Junction Canal Co tool. Unfortunately I don't have a picture of the flat tined one in my gallery. I'll try to add one sometime.

I like kebs

/gets anorak/

[me1bee]

Hi, thank u all so much for your detailed replies. We are currently going to view this boat which I a 5 hr round trip! He told us is 7-1 because it has been replated and had a recent hull survey of which the engineer stated to the owner that it measured 7-1 and this might cause problems with certain locks. The boat is 1976 and completely overhauled outside and inside including engine and rebottomed and re plated all around. I take everyone's point about the locks, but as correctly identified, we do live in Warrington and only want it for leisure and not to travel the country so mabe this would be ok for our needs. How much do you think it devalues the boat? Thanks to all for the replies

[Paul C]

Hi, thank u all so much for your detailed replies. We are currently going to view this boat which I a 5 hr round trip! He told us is 7-1 because it has been replated and had a recent hull survey of which the engineer stated to the owner that it measured 7-1 and this might cause problems with certain locks. The boat is 1976 and completely overhauled outside and inside including engine and rebottomed and re plated all around. I take everyone's point about the locks, but as correctly identified, we do live in Warrington and only want it for leisure and not to travel the country so mabe this would be ok for our needs. How much do you think it devalues the boat? Thanks to all for the replies

 

If its a 1976 boat, at 45', then its not historic so it certainly devalues it, I don't know how much by though. Its possible that for your use, the extra width isn't an issue so you can benefit from the fact that its been devalued from a 6'10" boat. But then again, why not look at a widebeam of say 10-12' wide? After all, a 7'1" boat is basically an extremely narrow widebeam!

[ditchcrawler]

Hi, thank u all so much for your detailed replies. We are currently going to view this boat which I a 5 hr round trip! He told us is 7-1 because it has been replated and had a recent hull survey of which the engineer stated to the owner that it measured 7-1 and this might cause problems with certain locks. The boat is 1976 and completely overhauled outside and inside including engine and rebottomed and re plated all around. I take everyone's point about the locks, but as correctly identified, we do live in Warrington and only want it for leisure and not to travel the country so mabe this would be ok for our needs. How much do you think it devalues the boat? Thanks to all for the replies

So if its 5 hrs away can you get it home? and remember, if you come to sell it the new buyer maybe getting the same advice as you are

[MtB]

How much do you think it devalues the boat?

 

 

Quite a lot I'd say.

 

When re-selling you will already looking for a buyer expecting a low price due to it's old age. Then you need a buyer who doesn't care bout the cruising limitations. I'd value a boat such as you describe at about £10k now, freshly replated and fitted out, or about £15k if it were 6ft 10in wide. When you come to sell in a few years and it has lost that 'newly renovated' gloss, I'd say about £5k will be about right.

 

MtB

[X Alan W]

Hi, thank u all so much for your detailed replies. We are currently going to view this boat which I a 5 hr round trip! He told us is 7-1 because it has been replated and had a recent hull survey of which the engineer stated to the owner that it measured 7-1 and this might cause problems with certain locks. The boat is 1976 and completely overhauled outside and inside including engine and rebottomed and re plated all around. I take everyone's point about the locks, but as correctly identified, we do live in Warrington and only want it for leisure and not to travel the country so mabe this would be ok for our needs. How much do you think it devalues the boat? Thanks to all for the replies

This seems a bit confusing if the boat was built to the usual 6ft 10 & if the "normal " thickness plate was used to over plate = 6mm each side ; the 12mm converted to imperial would only add approx 1/2" so shouldn"t account for the 7ft1. Could it be they have left an extra wide protrusion when replating the bottom & this has been taken as the measurement for the 7ft 1, there are I"m sure lot of replated boats that happily cruise the system without jamming in all but the known pinch ones.