Query 16amp flat socket/connector?

[NorthwichTrader]

In the engine room I have a conventional 240 3-pin socket which my landline cable plugs into. What I'd like to do is put a flat 16amp, push-in, connector in the mainline cable which plugs into it, around 2ft from the round, 3-pin connector? This would allow me to feed the cable through the air vent in the engine room.

It would, of course, be undercover...does the BSS permit this and, if it does, what would be the best socket for the job?

So, to reiterate, a flat socket/connector in the main electric cable, from bollard to inside bulkhead on engine room?

Any ideas?

Many thanks,

Stuart

Edited September 14, 2014 by NorthwichTrader

[Alan de Enfield]

Can I just clarify the curent set up :

 

1) You plug your 'land-line' into the power supply bollard.

2) You have a standard domestic 3-pin 13 amp socket.

3) You plug the boat end of the land-line into this domestic 3-pin 13 amp socket.

 

If this is the case - then you have a 'male' plug connecting to the electricity bollard and a 13 amp 3-pin plug on the other end.

 

If this is the case then not only is it a BSS fail it is very, Very, Very dangerous.

 

Apologies If I have misunderstood, but please confirm what you have - pictures of both ends of your land line would help

 

Edit to add -

 

1) the new 2013 BSS includes an inspection of your landline for suitability and condition.

2) have you an RCD ? it is a BSS fail not to have one

Edited September 14, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[Justme]

I am worried that you have a socket on the boat that a plug from your land line goes into.

 

That means that if the land line cable is plugged into the bollard first the pins on the plug are exposed & live.

 

 

Also if you do use the flat type connector make sure its a 3 pin one as most are for elec mowers & only have two pins. Then also ensure that the pins are on the boat side of the cable so cant become live as above.

[bottle]

Plug into socket on bollard. link

 

the cable must have socket on other end link this connects to the plug attached to the boat.

 

Plug attached to boat (permanently) http://www.stevensonplumbing.co.uk/16-amp-blue-wall-plug.html

 

That gets the supply into the boat, from the back of the plug a cable needs to run to a distribution board or another socket et..

 

Plugs have Pins, Sockets have holes, at no time should pins be 'live' only sockets can may be 'live'

[NorthwichTrader]

Sorry, yes, to further clarify, I have a consumer unit with RCD/16amp MCB, etc. all very standard and conventional. I have a landline cable, as you would have for a caravan, with the usual sockets at each end, with one end plugging into an inlet, mounted inside the engine room, the other into a bollard!

My problem is I'm currently running the cable in through the pigeon box, but I'd like to pass it in through the open air vent in the roof of the engine room. However, the bulky round sockets are too large to pass through it, though a flat connector could! So, what I'd like to do is cut the landline cable and put a flat socket joint in. The location of the socket would be such that it would be inside the engine room, just before the large round socket that plugs into a wall-mounted socket, just before the consumer unit!

I was just wondering what was the best 16amp flat socket for the job, and what would the BSS have to say about it?

Many thanks,

Stuart

Edit: to apologise for my incorrect use of sockets/pins etc. very interesting re the 'live' aspect of that, never thought of that before!

Anyway, mine are all very standard and safe!

I hope the above better explains my question?

Edited September 14, 2014 by NorthwichTrader

[AndrewIC]

Section 3.8 is the relevant bit of the BSS requirements, and looking at that I don't see that your proposal should cause any difficulties provided the connectors are "suitable proprietary manufacture" and not a home made lash up. Connectors like these http://www.vaskeurope.com/node/97 might be a possibility - often used in the IT industry. I am not an examine, if in doubt ask the BSS office?

[bottle]

Move the plug that is attached to the boat inside from the inside to the outside.

 

no extra connections to go wrong.

 

or for a flush fit something like this, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/111447757873?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108

[FadeToScarlet]

Thinking laterally, couldn't the cable come in through the engine room doors instead?

Most I've seen don't close perfectly,but have small gaps.

[Justme]

Watch that the cable cant chaff on the air vent.

[mayalld]

Sorry, yes, to further clarify, I have a consumer unit with RCD/16amp MCB, etc. all very standard and conventional. I have a landline cable, as you would have for a caravan, with the usual sockets at each end, with one end plugging into an inlet, mounted inside the engine room, the other into a bollard!

My problem is I'm currently running the cable in through the pigeon box, but I'd like to pass it in through the open air vent in the roof of the engine room. However, the bulky round sockets are too large to pass through it, though a flat connector could! So, what I'd like to do is cut the landline cable and put a flat socket joint in. The location of the socket would be such that it would be inside the engine room, just before the large round socket that plugs into a wall-mounted socket, just before the consumer unit!

I was just wondering what was the best 16amp flat socket for the job, and what would the BSS have to say about it?

Many thanks,

Stuart

Edit: to apologise for my incorrect use of sockets/pins etc. very interesting re the 'live' aspect of that, never thought of that before!

Anyway, mine are all very standard and safe!

I hope the above better explains my question?

 

Like others, I think that you are looking for a solution without considering all the variables.

 

Your solution is based upon the current location of the on-board connector. That is not immovable.

 

The normal solution is to install a weatherproof 16A male "commando" onto an external bulkhead and wire from that.

 

Flat 13A fittings have a major disadvantage, in that they the male version (with prongs) is usually only available for fitting to a lead. Versions intended to be fixed to a surface are uncommon.

[John V]

I have used the flat continental style 16A plugs and sockets in equipment installations. Although I have not had any guarantee failures, I was always using them well below their current rating.....from memory mostly around 3 or 5 amps. I always thought that they were a bit "mean" on the size of connection area (Both plug and socket wise and cable connection area). I would hesitate to use them under the high loadings that occur with use as a main feed for a narrowboat.

I would suggest that instead of trying to find a "one off" solution for your boat you go along with common practice and use a "commando" as per Mayalid

 

 

eta spellnigs

Edited September 15, 2014 by John V

[GUMPY]

My cable comes in through the rear doors under the slide.

There is a 13mm circle taken out from the top corner of the door, cable lies in this under the edge of the slide.

We don't use the back doors unless away from the mooring.

[john_r]

I am pretty sure that something from the Weiland range would suit. However I am in agreement that there is probably a better overall method to this.

[ditchcrawler]

If you use a flat plug and socket , then obviously you would put the socket on the lead that goes to the shore supply. If you now plug the other half of the lead into the boat with the inverter still on, what are the possibilities of the pins on the flat connector becoming live?

[Happy Go Lucky]

An alternative would be to take the socket off the end of the landline, feed the cable through the vent and then reattach the socket. It's fairly simple to do and saves introducing another joint in your cable. However, you will have to leave the landline coiled up on the roof when you cruise. Unplugging the cable inside as well will remove the risk of live plug pins. A length of hosepipe or flexible conduit threaded on the cable will provide protection where it passes through the vent.

Make sure that you unplug both ends of the landline before you take it apart

[jonathanA]

If you use a flat plug and socket , then obviously you would put the socket on the lead that goes to the shore supply. If you now plug the other half of the lead into the boat with the inverter still on, what are the possibilities of the pins on the flat connector becoming live?

none i would have thought...

 

the first time the inverter and mains supply meet there will be a big blue flash and goodnight vienna to the inverter....

 

ETA :

as others have said the obvious, simplest and most elegant solution is simply to re-site the input socket

Edited September 16, 2014 by jonathanA

[smileypete]

One of these on the outside:

 

 

http://cpc.farnell.com/pro-power/pe1663smb/wall-mount-inlet-240v/dp/PL08949

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[NorthwichTrader]

An alternative would be to take the socket off the end of the landline, feed the cable through the vent and then reattach the socket. It's fairly simple to do and saves introducing another joint in your cable. However, you will have to leave the landline coiled up on the roof when you cruise. Unplugging the cable inside as well will remove the risk of live plug pins. A length of hosepipe or flexible conduit threaded on the cable will provide protection where it passes through the vent.

 

Make sure that you unplug both ends of the landline before you take it apart

Ah, yes, HGL, this is the alternative, and the likely option, in the absence of an appropriate flat connector though, I would of course pull all the cable inside, and then create a bag/sock for the externally stuck 'plug', but not plug, if you know what I mean?

Thanks, SP, and everyone else, for the suggestion of an external socket. I'm embarrassed to admit, and I know it sounds pretentious, but I really don't want to play around with the outside of the boat...I just can't face a lump of blue and grey plastic sticking out the boat, or any female version of it!

All I really want is to build a tiny little box in the ceiling of the engine room, which I can open and close to contain a connector that's small enough to pass in through my engine room vent. Either end of this jointed cable will remain with its conventional and accepted plugs and sockets, etc.

Thanks again for everyone's thoughts!

Much appreciated,

Stuart

Edited September 16, 2014 by NorthwichTrader

[FadeToScarlet]

Ah, yes, HGL, this is the alternative, and the likely option, in the absence of an appropriate flat connector though, I would of course pull all the cable inside, and then create a bag/sock for the externally stuck 'plug', but not plug, if you know what I mean?

Thanks, SP, and everyone else, for the suggestion of an external socket. I'm embarrassed to admit, and I know it sounds pretentious, but I really don't want to play around with the outside of the boat...I just can't face a lump of blue and grey plastic sticking out the boat, or any female version of it!

All I really want is to build a tiny little box in the ceiling of the engine room, which I can open and close to contain a connector that's small enough to pass in through my engine room vent. Either end of this jointed cable will remain with its conventional and accepted plugs and sockets, etc.

Thanks again for everyone's thoughts!

Much appreciated,

Stuart

Put the vent onto a hinge so it can open wider?

[bottle]

Stuart see post #7

 

They can be painted and then they disappear.

[NorthwichTrader]

Put the vent onto a hinge so it can open wider?

Bingo! Thank-you! Will post pictures later!

[smileypete]

There's also straight inlets, maybe easier to hide under some sort of cover:

 

http://www.distributionzone.com/store/appliance-inlets/product-pce-midnight-series-panel-mount-appliance-inlet-16a-230v-2p-e-ip44-613-6x-386/

 

Would have thought the usual way is to have an inlet just inside the cabin doors with a little cutout to let the cable through.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[smileypete]

Did it get sorted with a hinged vent OK in the end? Or is there a need for an alternative?

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited September 27, 2014 by smileypete

[NorthwichTrader]

Did it get sorted with a hinged vent OK in the end? Or is there a need for an alternative?

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

I'm going for a 'version' of a hinged vent, but have just disconnected and reconnected the socket in the meantime!

Been a busy week, S.Pete...moved all our possessions aboard and are now living the wild life with solid fuels et al. Happy days, though, it's great to sidetrack the rat race!

[b0atman]

With regards the RCD if the onshore bollard does not have one then that surely is in the wrong why should one be fitted on the boat if only 240v use is from landline .

Now use inverters and generators then yes it is wise to have one BUT why are they not standard fit on said pieces of equipment.

Edited September 28, 2014 by b0atman