CaRT define "place"

[mayalld]

 

Actually I'm not blaming CaRT here, I'm blaming the boating organisations for colluding without making it clear to their members that they were working on this project. If the had made it clear to their members they would not have been colluding.

 

Something this big, that goes to the very heart of CCing, both for members of boating organisations and unaffiliated boaters should have been out in the open from the beginning. It deserves public consultation.

 

From my purely personal point of view, as a CCer I think that publishing places is a first class move giving clarity to the situation that has long been a point of contention. I wait to see what size gun CaRT have shot themselves in the foot with by doing this.

 

The trouble with going straight to a public consultation is that within minutes somebody decides that there is a glaring error and heaps abuse on them.

 

I see no issue with having a limited consultation before going to a public trial of the new system.

[gaggle]

on internet explorer , never mind i am off the pub so wont be capable till tomorrow now , thanks though.

[KevMc]

The link in post one has on every visit taken me to a page with a box for location search and a box for email for cart to send pdf too , no map , list of place and despite putting several know location into search box i am told that either the email is no good or i have not specified location , where is the list of places and map to click on for pdf , thanks.

 

I had that problem - it maybe that you have an incompatible browser. I looked again on my phone and the map appears with markers

 

ETA: I'm too slow by half

Edited August 15, 2014 by KevMc

[mango]

on internet explorer , never mind i am off the pub so wont be capable till tomorrow now , thanks though.

Isn't that history now, like NCSA Mosaic?

[cotswoldsman]

 

 

i saw this released on the CC facebook page by cotswoldman, which i assume he attended the meeting and was emailed to him and others?

Just for the sake of clarity and if you look at the timing of my post on Facebook I took the link off here. I have had no emails on this and I will just add u personally have no problem with the maps and I would say 90% of ccers on Facebook have no problem but as they say the devil is in the detail and that is the bit I have not seen

[matty40s]

This map has been in the pipeline for ages, I suspect the original was created by SA before she retired hence her name on it.

I have known about it (but hadn't seen it) since about the time of the K&A proposals.

Personally I think its a good thing removes all doubt as to how far you have to move to "satisfy th board".

I would think that Jenlyn has also known about it for ages and if you look back through his posts you will see he has been warning/hinting about it for a while.

Sally may have retired officially, but is now operating as a volunteer advising her replacement.

Richard Parry announced this map coming at the public meeting in Leicester and elsewhere earlier in the year.

Edited August 15, 2014 by matty40s

[Richard10002]

 

Ah, I was meaning the big formal PDF document called "Guidance for CCers" (or something similar) linked to on the maps page.

 

It says it's newly updated, but the date at the end of the multi-page document states "May 2012"

 

MtB

Irrespective of which document we are looking at, and it's date, there remains a requirement for bona fide navigation. I could have said "seems to remain a requirement", but I don't think it's in doubt.

 

Irrespective of the above, it also seems that CRT probably won't pursue the requirement as long as boaters move reasonably from place to place.

 

Sounds like a win win to me.

[Quinafloat]

 

The trouble with going straight to a public consultation is that within minutes somebody decides that there is a glaring error and heaps abuse on them.

 

I see no issue with having a limited consultation before going to a public trial of the new system.

 

Of course there would be a rumpus if it was a public consultation. There are always winners and losers, and there will always be mistakes that need to be highlighted and rectified in such a large project. That is why a public consultation is required, to get it right or as close to right, as possible before binding the CCing public to it's content!

 

I have made the issue a (albeit limited) public consultation and, the majority of respondents are in favour of the proposal.

[GUMPY]

Sally may have retired officially, but is now operating as a volunteer advising her replacement.

Richard Parry announced this map coming at the public meeting in Leicester and elsewhere earlier in the year.

So why does everyone seem so surprised about it?

[mayalld]

 

Of course there would be a rumpus if it was a public consultation. There are always winners and losers, and there will always be mistakes that need to be highlighted and rectified in such a large project. That is why a public consultation is required, to get it right or as close to right, as possible before binding the CCing public to it's content!

 

I have made the issue a (albeit limited) public consultation and, the majority of respondents are in favour of the proposal.

 

In fact, barring a few people, whose ridiculously piss-taking cruising patterns will be ruled out, everybody seems to broadly like it.

 

I notice that if you download a pdf, all the maps seem to be dated 23rd July, so that gives an indication of how long the site has been up and running

[Quinafloat]

Just for the sake of clarity and if you look at the timing of my post on Facebook I took the link off here. I have had no emails on this and I will just add u personally have no problem with the maps and I would say 90% of ccers on Facebook have no problem but as they say the devil is in the detail and that is the bit I have not seen

 

Some of the detail, at least in computer terms is probably a simple table of coordinates, type of Icon, and any other salient details. When it is finalised, which could take a year or so, then it should be made public property. This would ensure that it is not changed arbitrarily to suit some other purpose that becomes the fashion of the day.

[GoodGurl]

Just for the sake of clarity and if you look at the timing of my post on Facebook I took the link off here. I have had no emails on this and I will just add u personally have no problem with the maps and I would say 90% of ccers on Facebook have no problem but as they say the devil is in the detail and that is the bit I have not seen

yes sorry cotswoldman i just looked at the timings

[mango]

 

Some of the detail, at least in computer terms is probably a simple table of coordinates, type of Icon, and any other salient details. When it is finalised, which could take a year or so, then it should be made public property. This would ensure that it is not changed arbitrarily to suit some other purpose that becomes the fashion of the day.

It's not fashion but an adaptation to suit changing needs. Let CRT get on with the job, support them, and then perhaps they will be able to devote more resources to maintaining the network.

 

I don't want to go back to the days of long term stoppages because resources have been used to ensure that every boater is consulted about everything. We should all think about priorities for goodness sake.

Edited August 15, 2014 by mango

[Quinafloat]

It would take a few minutes of a junior persons time to make such a file public property, just email it to every boating organisation and organisations such as this forum, NBW, and the more stable Facebook forums. It's called transparency and it is an aim of CaRT.

 

A public consultation means that everybody can have a say, not that everybody has to have a say. I would not respond to a public consultation on this matter as I am perfectly happy with what I see.

[b0atman]

Yes yes and thrice yes but lets have it in book form loose leaf so revisions can be added for those who do not have or have limited computer access.

[Ronniesonic]

is it me or does this map (assuming it will become 'guidance') do exactly what C&RT is trying to stop? ie; the CM'er issue of trudling back & forth in a small area even when declaring themselves as a CC'er?

 

Having had a gander it will ensure a lot will now have to move even less distance than they do now? As mentioned earlier, Milton Keynes is a prime example.

[mango]

is it me or does this map (assuming it will become 'guidance') do exactly what C&RT is trying to stop? ie; the CM'er issue of trudling back & forth in a small area even when declaring themselves as a CC'er?

 

Having had a gander it will ensure a lot will now have to move even less distance than they do now? As mentioned earlier, Milton Keynes is a prime example.

All that's needed is to remove some of the 'places' from what looks like a draft.

[phill]

is it me or does this map (assuming it will become 'guidance') do exactly what C&RT is trying to stop? ie; the CM'er issue of trudling back & forth in a small area even when declaring themselves as a CC'er?

 

Having had a gander it will ensure a lot will now have to move even less distance than they do now? As mentioned earlier, Milton Keynes is a prime example.

 

I don't think anyone is trying to force you to stop at more 'places' than you want to so I don't think you need to worry. Just miss a few out.

[b0atman]

Are we assuming 28 days return maybe after 14 days in area then return could be 56 days or longer for CCers. and CMers

[Quinafloat]

It would seem reasonable that, like the K&A trial taking place, there would be a requirement to move through a certain number of different zones in a year.

[MtB]

It would seem reasonable that, like the K&A trial taking place, there would be a requirement to move through a certain number of different zones in a year.

 

 

Yes. And not just move through them, but make damned sure you get logged in each of them.

 

Or keep a record backed up by geo-stamped photos.

 

 

MtB

[Quinafloat]

 

 

Yes. And not just move through them, but make damned sure you get logged in each of them.

 

Or keep a record backed up by geo-stamped photos.

 

 

MtB

 

Have a look at my signature line Mike, I don't need geo stamped photos.

[steven wilkinson]

I know what would solve all of these problems and potential time, date, distance, places issues! Individual transponders that get issued with your licence. Real time information of location and cruising patterns! Easy peasy. Monitoring problem solved!

 

 

 

[mark99]

Transponders can be moved independently of boats.

[MtB]

Transponders can be moved independently of boats.

 

Or be left at home 100 miles away from the boat, like so license discs seem to be...

 

 

MtB