Oldest metal gates in place - Tyrley?

[Joseph]

Hello everyone

 

About a week ago I went by road to Tyrley Locks, on the Shropshire Union Canal, and helped one or two people through the upper locks there. I was reflecting that it was 50 years since I first went to Tyrley, and how much had changed, when pushing one of the lower gates on the third lock down. This metal gate looked somewhat old, although still in reasonable order. On the balance beam, to my surprise, I noted the date "1963", so I might conceivably have pushed it when I visited in childhood! The lock above this (second from the top) also featured older metal gates, but with no date recorded.

 

I wonder, idly, if these are the oldest such gates on the system? Off the top of my head, I cannot recall when BTW/BWB began installing metal gates on narrow locks, but I thought that it was about this period?

 

No doubt I have it wrong and, if so, where and which are the oldest metal narrow gates on the system?

 

I would be very interested in any response.

 

Joseph

[alan_fincher]

Well for metal gates on a narrow lock, the ones at Hillmorton are cearly a great deal older than that!

 

But you are clearly talking about "modern" welded steel gates, rather than any very much older cast iron ones still in use,

[Timleech]

There are a few quite 'old' steel gates, on Wigan locks, I didn't see any dates though. The same sort that were being fitted in the 1960s.

 

Tim

[ditchcrawler]

Bottom lock of the Claydon flight

[Laurence Hogg]

Some metal gates from the New Cross flight on the Bentley canal were re fitted on the Birmingham and Fazeley.

[OldGoat]

Bottom lock of the Claydon flight

 

These are cast iron (until somebody corrects me). The figure of '1909' comes to mind.

[X Alan W]

I seem to remember that gates on 3 locks at Tyrley were replaced in 1963 as i transported 2 sets from Norbury as the maintainace boat at Norbury had a problem, It was fixed to enable them to take the remaining set. these were/are steel plate as oposed to the much older cast ones. Not liked by the boaters when first installed as If they got bashed[ heaven forbid] they tended to bend/dent unlike the wooden ones that usually flexed & returned to their original shape.

[FadeToScarlet]

There's plenty of metal gates on the Nene that could.concievably date from the 30s modernisation. Gert big riveted guillotine gates.

[Pluto]

As a trial, steel lock gates were first introduced on the Northampton arm over the twelve years following nationalisation in 1948. In 1959, there was a meeting of the various engineers responsible for lock gate manufacture around the country where national standards for lock gates were drawn up. Wooden gates for the then poorly-used narrow canals were made lighter than previously, with less steel strapping and the joints glued. On more heavily used canals, steel gates were introduced. I doubt that many of the wooden lock gates from this time survive, but as mentioned above there are some of the steel gates. Standardised paddle gear was introduced at the same time. Eighteenth century British locks did not have particularly good foundations, which results in distortion of the lock sides and quoins. For this reason steel gates were not a good replacement for wooden gates, which are much more capable of 'bending' to suit any misalignment caused by poor foundations.

[magpie patrick]

To clarify, I think Joseph mean "steel composite mitre and single leaf gates" not just any old metal gate.

 

They are composite because the heel post and mitre post are wooden, the rest is self explanatory.

 

If anyone wants to be more general, then the lock gates on the Manchester Ship canal, in common with many gates for very large locks of that era* and before, are original, circa 1890's. These gates were built in situ and if they ever needed complete replacement I should imagine their replacements would be.

 

The smaller, lighter composite gates had several shortcomings, including a lack of buoyancy making them heavier. In addition, if they give, they don't recover, and have to be replaced or taken away to be straightened. I should imagine they transmit more of any impact back into the lock wall.

 

*I once went to see the heel post and mitre post being replaced on some lock gates at Cardiff: they had been lifted onto the side of the dock: the iron gates themselves were original. The contractor was Dutch and had brought a team of contract workers over from Holland. One of their rivals had won a similar contract for Newport Docks, and had instead floated the gates using their own internal buoyancy and attempted to tow them back to Holland. Half way back the gates sank...

[Pluto]

Not entirely correct, Patrick, as the MSC made their new gates at Runcorn, and these were moved and installed using the special gate crane, as seen below in one of Geoff Wheat's photos. Geoff was one of the MSC engineers in the early 1970s. The gate shed at Runcorn had the world's largest wood-working machinery.

 

[magpie patrick]

Didn't know they did that! Have the replaced them all, or just the smaller ones? and do they refurbish them or replace? The bottom gates of the large locks at each set must be expensive.

 

I must admit I was basing my observations on docks such as Cardiff where the gates aren't replaced (unless some dozy contractor sinks them!)

[Timleech]

Didn't know they did that! Have the replaced them all, or just the smaller ones? and do they refurbish them or replace? The bottom gates of the large locks at each set must be expensive.

 

I must admit I was basing my observations on docks such as Cardiff where the gates aren't replaced (unless some dozy contractor sinks them!)

 

I remember, when I was at school, the news that a ship had demolished a pair of gates on the Ship Canal, & the canal was effectively closed for some considerable time until it was sorted out.. I can't remember which locks.

 

As an aside, the smaller of the two ship locks at Eastham has in the last year or so become almost unworkable because of leakage, and seems to have been abandoned in all but name. That will limit their options if they have trouble with the larger lock, although I suppose not much of the shipping now using the canal would fit through the smaller lock? It can certainly lead to long delays for smaller craft.

 

 

Tim

Edited July 6, 2014 by Timleech

[archie57]

I was told, when I worked (briefly) in the Engineers office at MSC Head Office (Ship Canal House) that they had spare gates for every lock kept in case of any mishap

[billh]

 

I remember, when I was at school, the news that a ship had demolished a pair of gates on the Ship Canal, & the canal was effectively closed for some considerable time until it was sorted out.. I can't remember which locks.

 

 

Tim

Irlam Locks March 1969, Manchester Courage- the variable pitch prop didn't variable into reverse. The ship was stuck in the gates for a while.

One of the damaged gates was still lying on the lock side up until a few years ago - surveyed for possible re-use in a wooden boat. Assume it was tidied up with a chain saw, it certainly isn't there now.

[MoominPapa]

I was told, when I worked (briefly) in the Engineers office at MSC Head Office (Ship Canal House) that they had spare gates for every lock kept in case of any mishap

There are certainly a large number of lock gates mounted upright against the outer (Mersey side) bank at Weston.

 

MP.

Not entirely correct, Patrick, as the MSC made their new gates at Runcorn, and these were moved and installed using the special gate crane, as seen below in one of Geoff Wheat's photos. Geoff was one of the MSC engineers in the early 1970s. The gate shed at Runcorn had the world's largest wood-working machinery.

 

 

That was still in Runcorn dock when Peckham Poppy passed on Saturday.

 

MP.

[Timleech]

 

That was still in Runcorn dock when Peckham Poppy passed on Saturday.

 

MP.

 

No longer in useable condition, though.

 

Tim

[MoominPapa]

As an aside, the smaller of the two ship locks at Eastham has in the last year or so become almost unworkable because of leakage, and seems to have been abandoned in all but name. That will limit their options if they have trouble with the larger lock, although I suppose not much of the shipping now using the canal would fit through the smaller lock? It can certainly lead to long delays for smaller craft.

Are the smaller locks still usable higher up the canal? We were locked in a single narrowboat up the biggest locks.

 

I have to say that the whole canal had a feel of neglect, and not of a valuable asset that needs to be kept in good condition.

 

MP.

[Laurence Hogg]

 

No longer in useable condition, though.

 

Tim

 

I spent three wonderful day aboard the 250 ton crane filming the lock gate change at Latchford. A wonderful piece of Dutch engineering, steam electric drive, everything was original on board including a magnificent set of paraffin navigation lights. The crew were so enthusiastic too, we were allowed everywhere on the machine, one colleague climbing to the top as we went under the railway viaducts with just a few feet to spare. Our current film on the MSC features this adventure. Captain Don Morgan was in charge then and he set it all up for us. That was 1997 later we had a trip on board the tugs towing ships and were allowed onto the ships to film the tugs, great days!!

Edited July 7, 2014 by Laurence Hogg

[Joseph]

Thanks everyone

 

Fascinating replies. Patrick, yes, I was only really asking about narrow locks with steel balance beams. Laurence, did the Bentley Canal gates last long at Curdworth - or was this a temporary expedient?

 

Still not sure whether there are older examples than those specific narrow gates at Tyrley - e.g. on the Northampton flight? I wonder what was their design life - 50 years seems a very long time!

 

Regards

 

Joseph

[MoominPapa]

Still not sure whether there are older examples than those specific narrow gates at Tyrley - e.g. on the Northampton flight?

We've been up and down Northampton flight many times, and neither of us can recall any steel gates there.

 

MP.