C&RT Assistance

[KJT]

Google "manure drag" or "manure rake" to get a picture of a keb. Although proper kebs have much longer shafts.

Under images from google

http://www.grannybuttons.com/granny_buttons/WindowsLiveWriter/Keb%20at%20Meaford%205347.jpg

Thank you both. That's much clearer!

It's good to learn something everyday.

 

Ken

[Pete & Helen]

 

Thank you both. That's much clearer!

It's good to learn something everyday.

 

Ken

 

I was about to ask the same question as you did Ken. At first I thought they had miss spelt Key (to unlock the stop planks) As you say you learn something every day.

Pete

[crisashy]

Oooh, I've been using a keb for years to muck my horse out and didn't know it. I'd also like to defend the CRT staff. As newbies to boating we do tend to panic a bit when things go wrong and on a recent trip I managed to break both a lift bridge and an electric lock. The men who came out from the CRT were lovely, dealt with the problem efficiently and quickly and even managed not to roll their eyes at the stupid woman who hadn't a clue what she was doing. They also had a brilliant sense of humour, which helped me through the situation, and I would imagine is quite a necessity in their job.

[ditchcrawler]

I see, so filling out a bit of paper will stop the planks from breaking! Amazing!

 

Or perhaps generic Risk Assessments could be done (once), which perhaps invoke controls /mitigation a such as inspecting the planks?

 

There is no need to do a virgin risk assessment for each instance of a procedure.

I would agree with all of that, accept maybe the man doing the job may not be the best one to do the risk assessment. note the word may.

[MHS]

 

I'm sure you didn't break either, I'm not sure how you could break an electric lock. Short of snapping your bw key in the control panel, it would be difficult.

[Lockie Junior]

I see, so filling out a bit of paper will stop the planks from breaking! Amazing!

 

Or perhaps generic Risk Assessments could be done (once), which perhaps invoke controls /mitigation a such as inspecting the planks?

 

There is no need to do a virgin risk assessment for each instance of a procedure.

 

I believe the theory is that if there is a generic risk assessment then it is such a big (by big I mean a 6 inch thick file of A4), boring document to read, that no one really wants to do so, or you don't think about it and you just go through the motions. Also there's the difficulty in finding and remembering the relevant assessment.

 

If you do a "virgin" risk assessment for each task, then that is supposed to make you think about the task in hand, whilst you are filling out the paperwork.

 

Regards,

Lockie.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Lockie Junior

[George94]

I would agree with all of that, accept maybe the man doing the job may not be the best one to do the risk assessment. note the word may.

 

Perhaps then he is not the best man to do the job.

[ditchcrawler]

 

Perhaps then he is not the best man to do the job.

I would disagree, very few people see their own accident coming where as a second person may.

[nicknorman]

I believe the theory is that if there is a generic risk assessment then it is such a big (by big I mean a 6 inch thick file of A4), boring document to read, that no one really wants to do so, or you don't think about it and you just go through the motions. Also there's the difficulty in finding and remembering the relevant assessment.

 

If you do a "virgin" risk assessment for each task, then that is supposed to make you think about the task in hand, whilst you are filling out the paperwork.

 

Regards,

Lockie.

Based on the fact that by the time you have filled out a new 6 inch thick file of A4 it will be time to go home, I can see how this will massively improve safety - there will never be the time to actually do anything potentially risky.

 

Before my retirement I operated in a highly risky business - flying lots of passengers hundreds of miles out to sea in a helicopter (lots of single point failures), in sun, rain, cloud, fog, night, gales etc. If we had to do a full risk assessment before each flight the UK's oil industry would have ground to a halt years ago and you would have to revert to real horse power to move your boat. But we had generic risks assessments (well, that was following years of miraculously being able to operate before risk assessments were invented) which yes were 6" or more of A4. But out of those tomes came some controls and procedures that the flight crew applied. The potential risks never changed, so there was no point in re-inventing them each time. The same should apply to CRT were it not for some folk needing to keep their empires ever expanding.

 

Anyway, your argument seems weakened by the fact that the chap doing the RA and the chap actually doing the work / taking the risk, were not going to be the same person.

Edited June 7, 2014 by nicknorman

[George94]

I would disagree, very few people see their own accident coming where as a second person may.

 

Great. You've immediately doubled the cost of the work.

[Lockie Junior]

Based on the fact that by the time you have filled out a new 6 inch thick file of A4 it will be time to go home, I can see how this will massively improve safety - there will never be the time to actually do anything potentially risky.

 

Anyway, your argument seems weakened by the fact that the chap doing the RA and the chap actually doing the work / taking the risk, were not going to be the same person.

 

Apologies, perhaps I didn't explain myself very clearly.

 

The Generic Risk Assessments are/were compiled and updated annually by a manager (not the man on the ground) and results in the thick tome previously mentioned. This tome is/was quite difficult to read and understand.

 

The POWRAs are filled in by the person or persons on site doing the task, which makes them think about the task in hand and the risks involved.

 

Regards,

Lockie.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Lockie Junior

[Laurie Booth]

Keb

 

Richard

I hate being stupid but I have to ask "What is a Keb"?

 

Edit

I should have read further down the posts.

It's a long pole with a bent fork on the end.

 

I have now learnt something new.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Laurie.Booth

[X Alan W]

Under images from google

http://www.grannybuttons.com/granny_buttons/WindowsLiveWriter/Keb%20at%20Meaford%205347.jpg

That seems to be one of the more modern round tine kebs, maybe even a manure drag. The older style kebs had flatter/ wider tines.

[GUMPY]

That seems to be one of the more modern round tine kebs, maybe even a manure drag. The older style kebs had flatter/ wider tines.

If you can post a pic of an old one it would be good to see. In 30+ years I have only seen the type in the pic.

[Henhouse]

30 years ago, when we used to have a peeling machine in the woods we used to use one to rake out the peelings from a non tipping trailer, and spread them evenly.

 

However, our tool although identical to look at was known as a SCRAG.

 

Has anyone else heard of this term ?

[X Alan W]

If you can post a pic of an old one it would be good to see. In 30+ years I have only seen the type in the pic.

I`ve looked through the old photo`s that I kept & can not come up with a clear picture The one I had, I aquired from Charity dock in around 1960/1 exchanged for a driving job, while the boat was on the dock. I had to burn the broken shaft out & fit a replacement, i understood it was ex BW,the tines in line with the handle were slightly flattened & the bent over portion were flattened to be almost oblong The guys at the power station that was just along from Hawksbury/suttons stoplock used them all the time to fish spilled coal at the unloading bays, to enable the loaded boats to get in to the side, They fitted chicken wire over the tines to get a better haul each time There was often one on the stop planks holder, curved brackets fitted to the side of the structure, the lock keepers/lengthsmen often had one or more on lock flights.IIRC Atherstone had around 6 or so spaced in lock flight,Often used for windlass fishing in locks, before most folk got magnets. Another useful tool was a railway shunters pole [the one with the pigs tail on the end, used for coupling/uncoupling the 3 link chain couplings] sharpened to an edge on the inside of the curl it made a useful prop unfouling tool [ no weed hatches at that time] if you couldn`t clear it it meant either getting wet [going under the counter, or if near a lock dropping the stern end on the cill ,regulating the water level getting down on the cill to clear it. Another bit of kit that seems to have become difficult to obtain is the long boat shaft at least 16 feet long with a nice turned wooden knob on the one end & either with or without a spike/hook on the other end. things have moved on some things better some not so good.

[George94]

That seems to be one of the more modern round tine kebs, maybe even a manure drag. The older style kebs had flatter/ wider tines.

 

Fifty years ago they would have been made by blacksmiths. But in these days of mass-production, the demand is not sufficient to justify tooling up for kebs, so people are obliged to buy the nearest available thing - a dung drag.

[jelunga]

I see, so filling out a bit of paper will stop the planks from breaking! Amazing!

 

Or perhaps generic Risk Assessments could be done (once), which perhaps invoke controls /mitigation a such as inspecting the planks?

 

There is no need to do a virgin risk assessment for each instance of a procedure.

The problem with that is that if something does go wrong the risk assessment was done by a remote manager, who will then get blamed. Having the worker do it shifts the responsibility somewhat

[nebulae]

I have a 3 pronged "Keb" which i savaged from a neighbours scrap pile .It has 3 wide tines,sharpened to a point.I was informed that it was a potatoe rake .Used for raking piles of spuds or beets used for animal feed.!

[The Toad in the Hole]

Can I muddy the keb thing further? Back in the late '80s when I did a bit of work with BTCV, they called them "chromes" (No idea if that's the correct spelling). Never heard them called kebs before today.

[RLWP]

Can I muddy the keb thing further? Back in the late '80s when I did a bit of work with BTCV, they called them "chromes" (No idea if that's the correct spelling). Never heard them called kebs before today.

 

Canals do not have a single history. What we know has been drastically funnelled through a few remaining boatmen and women who knew what they knew. They wouldn't know what happened in other parts of the country because they didn't go there

 

Unfortunately, these fragments of history that we do have get taken as being The History of all the canals

 

I'm not surprised to find the bent tined rake being called different things in different places - I'm delighted actually

 

Richard

[mayalld]

 

Great. You've immediately doubled the cost of the work.

 

No you haven't.

 

You have added to the cost of the job certainly, but not doubled it.

 

If you want to ensure that all the people who do the job on the ground are also skilled in risk assesment, then that may well double the cost.

[George94]

 

No you haven't.

 

You have added to the cost of the job certainly, but not doubled it.

 

If you want to ensure that all the people who do the job on the ground are also skilled in risk assesment, then that may well double the cost.

 

Do try not to take everything so literally.