Body found in Harecastle Tunnel

[Guest]

Report here saying a body has been recovered..also says guy was on roof of boat...surely is not possible not sure if there would even be room to kneel..

Hope this is just newspaper mis reporting..

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Police-search-Harecastle-Tunnel-man-fell/story-21117156-detail/story.html

It actually says 'standing on the roof' which would indeed be impossible.

[WJM]

The height gauges at each entrance would tell any would-be roof-surfer not to try. The journalist probably means that he was standing on the counter, thats how it looks to a non-boater.

[X Alan W]

junior, on 20 May 2014 - 7:12 PM, said:junior, on 20 May 2014 - 7:12 PM, said:

Is it possible for someone single crewed to fall off a boat and for the boat to continue on to the end?

Yes, in the early 60`s the steerer of the last of 4 loaded boats ended up in the water, He heard a strange noise coming from the rudder area on the boat he stepped on to the counter to investigate, tiller bar was suddenly forced over & knocked him over board. at that time there where still parts of the tow path remaining, so he was able to climb out on to it, the boat continued on it`s way & as the steerer on the third boat slowed down to talk to the northern end tunnel keeper in the tunnel mouth #4 boat ran into the back of it, realizing no one was aboard, the tunnel keeper got onto the boat & stopped it. there was a maintenance launch/dingy at each end of the tunnel in those days, so the north end one went in to investigate, they found him on a part of the broken towpath, Ok except for being soaked. No chance of that now as no towpath. very sad for the family concerned in this incident. .

Edited May 21, 2014 by X Alan W

[Alan de Enfield]

mark99, on 20 May 2014 - 7:18 PM, said:

A sobering thought.

 

I for one will consider now donning my buoyancy aid and waterproof torch attached there-to when traversing a long tunnel.

 

The problem with a buoyancy aid is that it will not turn you over in the water so an unconscious boater falling in face down will drown because the buoyancy aid will hold their face under the water.

 

Only a suitably sized life jacket will actually turn over an unconscious person.

 

I would have thought that in a tunnel there is just as much chance of being knocked off and (at least) 'dazed' by hitting the roof or some other 'projection' as there is of falling off fully conscious.

 

Dont mess about with buoyancy aids get a lifejacket.

 

A fully automatic (inflates when you hit the water) 150 Newton lifejacket (generally accepted as a minimum to support an unconscious adult can be had for as little as £60-£80.

Being a particularly 'negative buoyant' person I went for a 275 Newton auto life jacket (Brand new with warranty) £86 off ebay.

 

Edit - here is a suitable one at £83 including delivery

 

With 275 Newton’s of buoyancy this lifejacket conforms to European standard EN 399. Differing from standard gas lifejackets because it has greater turning force because of the additional buoyancy - so it will guarantee to turn you into the upright position once in the water even in heavy protective clothing. This lifejacket is recommended for use in all weather conditions.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Challenger-Worksafe-275N-Red-Automatic-Lifejacket-/201087423763?pt=UK_SportingGoods_LifeJackets_PFDs_SM&hash=item2ed1be9513

Edited May 21, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[PhilR]

It actually says 'standing on the roof' which would indeed be impossible.

 

The report says "We have been told a family was going through the tunnel with a guy standing on top of the boat". Allowing for newspaper reporting, I would assume they meant on the counter or deck.

[WJM]

In a very narrow tunnel like Harecastle a lifejacket could actually kill you. If a following boat has not seen you (very possible in the dark noisy environment with the steerer far behind his bows) the swimmer could easily be crushed between the passing boat and the wall.

 

A conscious person wont drown in a tunnel, crushing or exposure to the cold are the big killers.

 

I was once canoeing through the Savernake Tunnel (K&A) when another canoe capsized in front of me. In their panic the swimming crew started to grab at my boat threatening to capsize me too. When I suggested that they just stand up there was much relief, it was little more than waist deep. They were near the end so I left them to walk out.

[Alan de Enfield]

In a very narrow tunnel like Harecastle a lifejacket could actually kill you. If a following boat has not seen you (very possible in the dark noisy environment with the steerer far behind his bows) the swimmer could easily be crushed between the passing boat and the wall.

 

A conscious person wont drown in a tunnel, crushing or exposure to the cold are the big killers.

 

 

 

I think a lifejacket it is irrelevant - you will get crushed either with or without a life jacket.

[alan_fincher]

Harecastle will be more than "waist deep", and in some of it it may be impossible to stand on the bottom.

 

The reason it is so low in part is subsidence caused by mining in the area.

 

Where the roof is now two feet "lower down" than Telford designed it, then broadly speaking so is the invert at the bottom, so assuming there was up to 5 feet of water depth in the original design, much of it it may not be possible for even a six footer to stand up in now. (Assuming silting hasn't done its worst).

 

The new section in the middle of Blisworth tunnel has thousands of tons of ballast deliberately dumped in it, to reduce the depth of the water.

[WJM]

 

I think a lifejacket it is irrelevant - you will get crushed either with or without a life jacket.

I disagree - without a lifejacket you have the possibility of ducking under the waterline, possibly swimming under the boat to clear water on the other side. A lifejacket pins you to the surface. The water is, at most, chest deep, floatation is not a big requirement, you can stand in a tunnel.

[Timleech]

Harecastle will be more than "waist deep", and in some of it it may be impossible to stand on the bottom.

 

The reason it is so low in part is subsidence caused by mining in the area.

 

Where the roof is now two feet "lower down" than Telford designed it, then broadly speaking so is the invert at the bottom, so assuming there was up to 5 feet of water depth in the original design, much of it it may not be possible for even a six footer to stand up in now. (Assuming silting hasn't done its worst).

 

The new section in the middle of Blisworth tunnel has thousands of tons of ballast deliberately dumped in it, to reduce the depth of the water.

I seem to remember that some or possibly all of Harecastle has a 'new' concrete bottom, as they built a roadway into the tunnel for major repairs some years ago. There was a worry at the time that it actually wouldn't be deep enough for the deeper Narrow Boats.

 

Tim

[alan_fincher]

The water is, at most, chest deep, floatation is not a big requirement, you can stand in a tunnel.

See post above yours.

 

Even without subsidence the tunnels were built to pass a loaded boat, so the design depth of the water would probably be about 5 feet near the walls, but more in the middle, because the "invert" dips downwards, (considerably).

 

I think most people would struggle to stand up in a lot of the currently navigable tunnels.

 

You can easily make 4mph in many of them - shallow they are generally not.

[Sas]

The problem with a buoyancy aid is that it will not turn you over in the water so an unconscious boater falling in face down will drown because the buoyancy aid will hold their face under the water.

 

Only a suitably sized life jacket will actually turn over an unconscious person.

 

I would have thought that in a tunnel there is just as much chance of being knocked off and (at least) 'dazed' by hitting the roof or some other 'projection' as there is of falling off fully conscious.

 

Dont mess about with buoyancy aids get a lifejacket.

 

A fully automatic (inflates when you hit the water) 150 Newton lifejacket (generally accepted as a minimum to support an unconscious adult can be had for as little as £60-£80.

Being a particularly 'negative buoyant' person I went for a 275 Newton auto life jacket (Brand new with warranty) £86 off ebay.

 

Edit - here is a suitable one at £83 including delivery

 

With 275 Newton’s of buoyancy this lifejacket conforms to European standard EN 399. Differing from standard gas lifejackets because it has greater turning force because of the additional buoyancy - so it will guarantee to turn you into the upright position once in the water even in heavy protective clothing. This lifejacket is recommended for use in all weather conditions.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Challenger-Worksafe-275N-Red-Automatic-Lifejacket-/201087423763?pt=UK_SportingGoods_LifeJackets_PFDs_SM&hash=item2ed1be9513

I know Alan qualified this by saying that a life jacket would not prevent crushing ( who knows what has happened in this dreadful instance?), but thanks SO much for posting the info on buoyancy aids v life jacket in case of an unconscious person. It's incredibly helpful to us novices.

[alan_fincher]

I seem to remember that some or possibly all of Harecastle has a 'new' concrete bottom, as they built a roadway into the tunnel for major repairs some years ago. There was a worry at the time that it actually wouldn't be deep enough for the deeper Narrow Boats.

 

Tim

Ah, I haven't heard that.

 

Sickle will go through it with some gusto, so I don't think it is incredibly shallow.

 

I still contend that where the roof it at its lowst, then almost certainly the water depth will be significantly greater as well.

[RLWP]

thanks SO much for posting the info on buoyancy aids v life jacket in case of an unconscious person. It's incredibly helpful to us novices.

 

Is it? I now don't know if what I have are buoyancy aids or lifejackets. They aren't armbands or survival suits

 

Richard

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Is it? I now don't know if what I have are buoyancy aids or lifejackets. They aren't armbands or survival suits

 

Richard

 

Buoyancy aids GENERALLY are a waistcoat type 'jacket' filled with pieces of foam.

 

Lifejackets GENERALLY have a mouthpiece to blow them up and can have an additional small gas bottle to inflate them when they get 'dunked'

 

Some (generally older) life jackets are a combination, in that they are buoyancy aids until blown up (they have both a foam filing and a mouth piece)

 

Buoyancy aids GENERALLY have the buoyancy on the wearers 'back' whilst lifejackets have the buoyancy (once inflated) on the wearers 'front/ chest'

 

Buoyancy aids are GENERALLY worn when you intend to get wet (do-nutting, water skiing etc) and life jackets are GENERALLY worn when the intention is not to get wet (sailing, working a lock etc)

[RLWP]

What do CRT employees wear? The self inflating thing

 

Richard

[IanM]

Life jackets

 

They are designed to turn you on your back if you're unconscious and face down.

Edited May 21, 2014 by IanM

[RLWP]

I think some photos would be helpful here to distinguish between buoyancy aids and lifejackets

 

Richard

[carlt]

 

Bouyancy aid:

 

 

 

Life Jackets:

 

 

Edited May 21, 2014 by carlt

[WJM]

I think most people would struggle to stand up in a lot of the currently navigable tunnels.

 

 

I have seen men walking in the K&A tunnel - and I have idly pushed my canoe paddle down to the bottom of some Welsh and London tunnels to test the depth. They are shallow.

[MtB]

I have seen men walking in the K&A tunnel - and I have idly pushed my canoe paddle down to the bottom of some Welsh and London tunnels to test the depth. They are shallow.

 

You take your canoe through tunnels?

 

A whole higher magnitude of risk I'd have thought. Surely you could be in serious trouble even the relatively short Bruce Tunnel if a widebeam coming the other way fails to notice you.

 

OTOH I suppose a canoe is a helluvalot faster than a steel boat.

 

MtB

 

Life Jackets:

 

Bouyancy aid:

 

 

 

Labelled the wrong way around, surely?

 

AIUI the lower photo is a life jacket and the upper is a buoyancy aid.

 

MtB

 

 

Edit to add: Ah right, I now see there are three photos. The third initially failed to display for me. I still think the first photo is a buoyancy aid, the second an automatic life jacket. The third is the composite type.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Mike the Boilerman

[carlt]

I disagree - without a lifejacket you have the possibility of ducking under the waterline, possibly swimming under the boat to clear water on the other side.

 

 

I have seen men walking in the K&A tunnel - and I have idly pushed my canoe paddle down to the bottom of some Welsh and London tunnels to test the depth. They are shallow.

 

So crushed by the boat sides or crushed by the boat bottoms....Which do you favour?

[Dharl]

What do CRT employees wear? The self inflating thing

 

Richard

The Self Inflating waistcoat that CRT employees wear are 'Lifejackets' (most likely 150 Newton ones, could be 220 N to allow for all their work gear)

 

They are the preferred ones to use as are not cumbersome when you are wearing one and having to work but if needed will keep you afloat and in the correct position so that you don't drown.

http://www.lifejackets.co.uk/products/252/crewsaver-crewfit-150n-life-jacket-auto-harness

and an ad for a Buoyancy Aid

 

http://marinestore.co.uk/Baltic_Rekord_50N_Buoyancy_Aid.html

Edited May 21, 2014 by Dharl

[carlt]

 

Labelled the wrong way around, surely?

 

Yes they didn't appear in the post as I had intended now edited.

 

The first is indeed a buoyancy aid and the next two are both lifejackets, one self-inflating and the other is a foam-filled older type.

[Dave_P]

Mine are very much like this but an older design http://www.sailandsnow.com/helly-hansen-navigare-comfort-33800?gclid=CjgKEAjwnfGbBRDlxoHrl6uikyESJAD-nzCF_AgqoVIt1KDPliV-r5Zo6ZmAL1eRupGbiRwLKKQ_qPD_BwE

 

can someone confirm that they are life jackets?