Failed BSS on little things

[basalt]

Dammit, I spent a lot of attention on the things we were doing to the boat and making sure they complied - electrics check out fine, and I made life considerably simpler but getting rid of the gas appliances and opting for a spirit fueled hob instead so it's annoying to have missed minor things.

 

We got stung on these -

 

Battery compartment not labelled and he'd like to see the battons holding them put slightly higher up - fair enough

 

Fire escape not signed - really? that one suprised me, I can understand it on a hire boat but on a private boat it seems like putting up a fire escape notice in your own home.

 

I presume are these recent changes to the scheme? - the boat had a current BSS cerificate when we bought it, my fault for assuming things we hadn't done work on would still be ok.

 

All easily rectified but am I going to have to pay another inspection fee to get the certificate?

 

 

[bizzard]

Dammit, I spent a lot of attention on the things we were doing to the boat and making sure they complied - electrics check out fine, and I made life considerably simpler but getting rid of the gas appliances and opting for a spirit fueled hob instead so it's annoying to have missed minor things.

 

We got stung on these -

 

Battery compartment not labelled and he'd like to see the battons holding them put slightly higher up - fair enough

 

Fire escape not signed - really? that one suprised me, I can understand it on a hire boat but on a private boat it seems like putting up a fire escape notice in your own home.

 

I presume are these recent changes to the scheme? - the boat had a current BSS cerificate when we bought it, my fault for assuming things we hadn't done work on would still be ok.

 

All easily rectified but am I going to have to pay another inspection fee to get the certificate?

 

 

It was probably possible that you could have moved the battens and written out the notices and stuck em on while the examiner was there.

[b0atman]

I think I would be querying these as very questionable what is point of a signed fire exit for a single handed boater ?I think that this tester is another of the make money from a scheme that has gone beyond what it was basically set up for i.e stopping people getting killed because of lack of ventilation and the mis use of fuels

[Machpoint005]

Stop moaning, stick the exit sign up, get the certificate, remove sign if it annoys you, keep in a safe place for 4 years' time. Easy as that.

[alan_fincher]

If you have been failed on failure to mark a fire exit, I would seek advice from the BSS office.

 

As far as I can see in the latest BSS check-list, this is all that appears......

 

Advice for owners – if a window or hatch is the secondary means of escape, if one is not already fitted, advise the owner to fit a proprietary label to help people not familiar with the craft to escape in the event of an emergency.

 

 

An examiner can't, I believe fail you on an "advice" item - they can only advise of best practice.

 

Note anyway that this only applies if a window or hatch is designated as a fire exit - a door would not need labelling, even as an "advice" item. I guess it depends what they mean by "hatch" - are side doors a "hatch" for instance?

Edited February 27, 2014 by alan_fincher

[Captain Fizz]

You clearly got the choice of examiner wrong!

[Paul C]

Sounds like the examiner has misinterpreted the rules, for example fire escape is an advisory, and only needs to be labelled if its a non-obvious hatch or window:

 

 

Advice for owners – if a window or hatch is the secondary means of escape, if one is not already fitted, advise the owner to fit a proprietary label to help people not familiar with the craft to escape in the event of an emergency.

 

And there is no requirement for the battery storage compartment to be labelled.

 

I wonder if he erroneously applied the hire boat regs to do the test?

EDIT: cross posted with Alan - his interweb skills found the link to the BSS docs 4 minutes quicker!

[alan_fincher]

Stop moaning, stick the exit sign up, get the certificate, remove sign if it annoys you, keep in a safe place for 4 years' time. Easy as that.

 

It seems fair enough to me to challenge any examiner decision that doesn't actually seem to be backup up by an actual BSS requirement.

 

Yes,, what you suggest is an easy way out, but if an examiner is issuing fails on points they should not be, it needs raising with the BSS Office, or they are going to continue to get it wrong thereafter.

 

(That's not me being stroppy - I have never had to challenge an examiner, but then I have never had a fail - if the situation is as stated here, I'd be pissed off to be failed on this point, I think).

[Machpoint005]

 

It seems fair enough to me to challenge any examiner decision that doesn't actually seem to be backup up by an actual BSS requirement.

 

Yes,, what you suggest is an easy way out, but if an examiner is issuing fails on points they should not be, it needs raising with the BSS Office, or they are going to continue to get it wrong thereafter.

 

(That's not me being stroppy - I have never had to challenge an examiner, but then I have never had a fail - if the situation is as stated here, I'd be pissed off to be failed on this point, I think).

 

Point taken -- I was thinking of a handwritten notice stuck up with sellotape.

[Captain Fizz]

What Alan has said.

I have witnessed many discrepancies between examiners in their interpretation of the Bss standards.

[alan_fincher]

And there is no requirement for the battery storage compartment to be labelled.

 

 

Yes, also agreed.

 

What I don't understand is how the examiner can have failed you on points that are not on a check sheet? I have never had a fail, but if he is working against a known list, shouldn't the fails be recorded on a standard list too?

 

He can't surely write freehand a list of failures that the BSS check list does not recognise?

 

I think you need to take this up with the BSS Office - I cannot understand these fails!

[Richard10002]

Presumably the battery security and labelling is a genuine fail that needs rectifying and re-inspecting? If so, the examiner is coming back and your future is in his hands.

 

Having said that, and IIRC, the battery compartment doesn't need a label, the battery isolation switches do, but they still need to be secure.

 

Given that the other fixes are fairly simple, I would do them and let him pass you. If you then want to take issue with The BSS Office, it's up to you, and there is no downside.

 

IMHO

[Timleech]

Presumably the battery security and labelling is a genuine fail that needs rectifying and re-inspecting? If so, the examiner is coming back and your future is in his hands.

 

Having said that, and IIRC, the battery compartment doesn't need a label, the battery isolation switches do, but they still need to be secure.

 

Given that the other fixes are fairly simple, I would do them and let him pass you. If you then want to take issue with The BSS Office, it's up to you, and there is no downside.

 

IMHO

 

The battery isolators don't need a label if they are in 'open view', obviously that is a matter for interpretation which may explain how it's passed previously. Really a no-brainer to label them, though.

Securing the batteries properly is important.

As said, the rest should only be 'advisory'.

 

 

Tim

[Neil2]

It's all very well to try and be philosophical about these things but I can truly sympathise with the OP's exasperation, especially if the examiner charges a re-inspection fee.

 

Anyone who is trying to run a small business these days will tell you this country is just going crazy with its obsession with having things checked and inspected to death and more often than not you are at the mercy of the opinion of the inspector/examiner.

 

I'm not trying to be funny here, this is a serious question - do examiners have to submit themselves to an "inspection" or be retested on a regular basis? If the system is that boats have to be regularly inspected it presumably follows that there must be a system for ensuring the examiners are up to date and competent. And of course, it means more bureaucracy...

 

Yes, also agreed.

 

What I don't understand is how the examiner can have failed you on points that are not on a check sheet? I have never had a fail, but if he is working against a known list, shouldn't the fails be recorded on a standard list too?

He can't surely write freehand a list of failures that the BSS check list does not recognise?

 

I think you need to take this up with the BSS Office - I cannot understand these fails!

That's an interesting point - the list I was given was written freehand with no reference to the check list. You would think it would be a requirement to at least give the boat owner the relevant section number(s) under which the fail points are made?

[Ricco1]

BSS- bull shit survey.

 

A prime example of how nanny state's interference in people's lives has reached the state of ridiculous. Sure, boats sometimes have gas that 'could' explode 'possibly' injuring others in the vicinity. But every day I walk past dozens of houses that have limitless gas (gas on bard a boat is obviously limited). A house could well explode and cause significant damage. But there is no requirement for a house owner to have a gas safety check, unless he lets the house.

 

It's quite ironic that the current opposition harps on about the cost of living when the fact is that many items of additional cost were established by the legislation they created.

[basalt]

I'm not complaining about the examination or the safety scheme - just my irritation at having missed minor things. I'm not going to bother querying any of it - life's too short for such pedantry, I'll just do it. The scheme is there for a good reason after all.

 

I wasn't there when the inspection was done or I would have just moved the battens there and then, it would have taken a few minutes .

 

So another inspection fee to pay?

 

I do find the discrepancy between the boat requirements and what's required in a house quite suprising - I don't think my gas has ever been inspected you can't get out of the house without a key which would be a big no if there was a requirement to provide a fire escape.

Edited February 27, 2014 by basalt

[PaulG]

Many years ago I was running a hotel, and the local fire officer was due to make an inspection.

The company that I worked for employed a hard-bitten ex-London fire chief as a consultant. He suggested swapping some of the fire extinguishers around in the kitchen, so that the foam one was where the dry powder one should be, etc

This was on the basis that the fire officer would be keen to find some faults so that he could then write me a letter demanding corrective action. This would go on file and act as evidence to show that he was doing his job thoroughly.

 

The alternative, if everything was in perfect order, was for the fire officer to start to recommend new fire escapes and other expensive alterations.

 

I've applied this kind of thinking ever since. Leave a few obvious, easily remedied defects for the inspector to "find" and it saves them having to dig too deep....

[Machpoint005]

 

So another inspection fee to pay?

 

 

 

You may be able to negotiate a retest fee with the same inspector -- after all, he has already done 98% of the work and most if it does not need repeating.

[alan_fincher]

I'm not complaining about the examination or the safety scheme - just my irritation at having missed minor things. I'm not going to bother querying any of it - life's too short for such pedantry, I'll just do it. The scheme is there for a good reason after all.

 

Well you have lost me - how can you miss something that is not actually in the list?

 

The scheme is there for good reasons, but this doesn't include an examiner making it up as they go along!

 

I have no idea whether you have accurately reported the fail points, or actually mean something else, (e.g. batteries themselves do not need to be labelled, but the isolator switch does), but as I read what you have written you have been wrongly failed on two points.

 

Some examiners charge for a retest, others do not, and that is something you usually negotiate with them when first booking the test.

 

Just coming back to look at the presence of a couple of labels and some moved battens would seem to be a money-spinner to an examiner, if they do charge!

Edited February 27, 2014 by alan_fincher

[bizzard]

Some examiners will accept photos of small items that have failed and been fixed to save them coming out again.

[OldGoat]

Over my 14+ years of owning a boat, I've been extremely lucky in finding BSS examiners of the "old school", that is folks who have river and canal water in their blood(stream) and who concentrated on the essentials and spirit of the scheme.

 

The BSS was flawed from the outset. The Office is answerable to no-one, can and does make up its own rules.

 

I know if difficult as it covers all sort of craft, but some of the definitions are vague at best and often impracticable.

 

Time was, as mentioned above, that the inspectors were 'proper' qualified marine surveyors with years of experience. Nowadays any one can join - and do.

 

It's a good idea but corrupted by current conditions.

 

Sadly my last surveyor has retired, so my next examination may have some challenges.

[bizzard]

Some examiners will accept photos of small items that have failed and been fixed to save them coming out again.

I did some BSS failure jobs on a boat a while ago. I added a roof mushroom vent, enlarged the rear door vents, secured the gas bottles with a chain and labelled the fuel filler, and the examiner was satisfied with digital photos and sent on the pass certificate.

Of course you couldn't photograph a gas leak after it had been fixed, nor electricity.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

I think it's fair to suggest from the inspectors that I have had over the years on what ever boat I had at that time, that they all have there own little quirks,in respect of 1 was keen on Gas installations, 1 was keen on Labelling & Signage & another was almost obsessed with the amount of ventilation I had in the cabin.even counting the gap around the cat flap swing door !.

Still,,what ever pleases I suppose.

But I still can't work out the sense of it all.

My main Saloon cabin has to (apparently) have two ways of escape EG Bow & Stern,,ok fine got that, I have a main Sleeping Cabin door directly opposite some 2ft or so from my Gally cooker,but no emergency access or egress is required from this cabin, even though it only has 1 way in & out !.

I also have a wheel house,,I have double sliding patio type doors that lead to the aft deck,,

In the roof of the wheel house I have Two Big 600 x600 hatches for extra ventilation especially in those forgotten summer nights & yep, I had to label them escape hatches !! Go figure.

But at the end of the day,if I want the certificate you have to comply to the interpretation of the issuing examiner quirks and all, I suppose.

& bare in mind this BSS thing has been largely a voluntary thing & not a necessity for me.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[mayalld]

Just coming back to look at the presence of a couple of labels and some moved battens would seem to be a money-spinner to an examiner, if they do charge!

 

The guy who examines my boat has a very simple policy on missing labels.

 

He carries a variety of suitable labels in his bag, and if a label is missing, he sticks one on.

[Athy]

Sorry Mr. M, that's too much like common sense. It'll never catch on.