Dispute at Pillings

[Athy]

Black humour, Mr. Sheet!

Perhaps the leases, like those on flats, are transferable, so if a moorer gets fed up he can sell the remainder of his lease to somebody else.

[Alan de Enfield]

Black humour, Mr. Sheet!

Perhaps the leases, like those on flats, are transferable, so if a moorer gets fed up he can sell the remainder of his lease to somebody else.

I believe they are transferable - my Brother In law almost bought a 'secondhand' lease at PLM last year - we were going 'halves' 0n a 60+ footer and the mooring but we decided to stay at Newark and we bought our 'new' 45 footer ourselves.

[Dangerous Dave]

On the positive side the leases at PLM to which i bought as a 30 lease for an outright payment of £28000 inc VAT were a financial bargain.

 

It equated at £900 for a years mooring..The mooring fee there now is some £2000 +

 

Ok you paid the lump sum up front but property is property..One would expect it to increase in value..If it was all well at PLM past and present then i'd estimate the value to be some £30000 + today

Before this scandal came about some leaseholders ,as you can see on ANRB website have been trying to sell for over a year..My friend rejected an offer for £15000.

.All of the fault of Paul Lillie!!

 

There is nothing to stop you selling your lease on if you decide to do so at any time you wish but you had to give PL first refusal to which he stated he never had funds to buy back.

If you decided to go abroad or similar then you could rent out the lease via the PLM management to which you paid them 25% commission..

Fair doo's.It gave you an income still as an investment.

 

Money isn't everything though is it..Quality of life is..We were lucky to be able to surrender our leases at a premium little knowing six months later this had been hidden from all!

 

As this thread carrys on more and more scams are coming to light..We are counting our blessings!!

Having said that there were some 23 other leaseholders out of reach of Paul Lillie's holding to ransom attitude .Who could have joined us in the great County Court small claims "overcharging of electricity "scam! but for their own reasons kept there heads down.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Shyster basher

[Paul G2]

I believe they are transferable - my Brother In law almost bought a 'secondhand' lease at PLM last year - we were going 'halves' 0n a 60+ footer and the mooring but we decided to stay at Newark and we bought our 'new' 45 footer ourselves.

 

Shyster Basher confirms they are transferable.

 

When you look at the terms SB states, £900/year for a slip that now rents for £2,000 is a pretty good deal. The long-term mooring leases probably were a pretty good investment, had the management of the marina not gone to hell in a handbasket.

 

Some people have stated that those mooring leases will survive the liquidation. Does anyone know for a fact if this is true?

[MtB]

Glad its not just me wondering that. If someone said to me, here is a car park space and with that you get somewhere to moor your boat but you will have to lease it for 25/30 years and pay 5years money in advance - I would be out of there like a shot. Why tie yourself into something for that long?

 

Dare I say it, but surely this is because it is people looking for a place to live with a bit of long term security who do this.

 

Runs counter to the whole culture of boating in my personal opinion, but that's all it is. My personal opinion. Nothing wrong with wanting to live on a boat moored in the same place for 30 years.

 

 

MtB

[deckhand]

 

Dare I say it, but surely this is because it is people looking for a place to live with a bit of long term security who do this.

 

Runs counter to the whole culture of boating in my personal opinion, but that's all it is. My personal opinion. Nothing wrong with wanting to live on a boat moored in the same place for 30 years.

 

 

MtB

Yeah, you are right I suppose. I don't understand it myself but if the security of knowing that they have somewhere to moor their boat in the same place for thirty years makes them feel happy then I have no right to question that.

[Dangerous Dave]

 

Shyster Basher confirms they are transferable.

 

When you look at the terms SB states, £900/year for a slip that now rents for £2,000 is a pretty good deal. The long-term mooring leases probably were a pretty good investment, had the management of the marina not gone to hell in a handbasket.

 

Some people have stated that those mooring leases will survive the liquidation. Does anyone know for a fact if this is true?

 

 

Providing that you have registered it with the HM land registry i can see no problem..

Its your property and is so for nearly 25 years still is or what ever deals he has carried out since then.

I would expect that the BWMC or who they are called will buy the marina and either buy out the leases or they will offer bliss away from the Paul Lilie Regime!

[DeanS]

I noticed a massive advert on the back page of the Towpath magazine for Pillings Marina...big event on March 5th... ..looks a lovely marina/restaurant. Is that event going to go on as planned I wonder?

[Dangerous Dave]

Yeah, you are right I suppose. I don't understand it myself but if the security of knowing that they have somewhere to moor their boat in the same place for thirty years makes them feel happy then I have no right to question that.

 

 

Some 6 years ago the culture of the canal world was that of get a mooring first then a boat..Moorings were hard to get..That is why i went for the lease & the financial side of it too.

As i said i could have sold it on at a profit if it wasn't for you no who if i wanted to pack all the boating scene in!!

[One sheet]

Providing that you have registered it with the HM land registry i can see no problem..

Its your property and is so for nearly 25 years still is or what ever deals he has carried out since then.

I would expect that the BWMC or who they are called will buy the marina and either buy out the leases or they will offer bliss away from the Paul Lilie Regime!

Miss A Knox as just bought 30 year lease not at PLM Tho

[Dangerous Dave]

I noticed a massive advert on the back page of the Towpath magazine for Pillings Marina...big event on March 5th... ..looks a lovely marina/restaurant. Is that event going to go on as planned I wonder?

 

 

All against the local planning consent no doubt!!

[Paul G2]

 

There is nothing to stop you selling your lease on if you decide to do so at any time you wish but you had to give PL first refusal to which he stated he never had funds to buy back.

If you decided to go abroad or similar then you could rent out the lease via the PLM management to which you paid them 25% commission..

Fair doo's.It gave you an income still as an investment.

 

Money isn't everything though is it..Quality of life is..We were lucky to be able to surrender our leases at a premium little knowing six months later this had been hidden from all!

 

As this thread carrys on more and more scams are coming to light..We are counting our blessings!!

Having said that there were some 23 other leaseholders out of reach of Paul Lillie's holding to ransom attitude .Who could have joined us in the great County Court small claims "overcharging of electricity "scam! but for their own reasons kept there heads down.

 

But not everyone shares your passion for confrontation and litigation, nor your extreme dislike of Paul Lillie. There are many people who just don't want to be involved in a conflict. (Any conflict, not just this one.) Neither the money nor the principle are worth it.You have a lot of energy that you direct towards Paul Lillie. Not everyone finds him worthy of such devotion.

 

I don't mean to sound critical of you, it's not up to me to judge. I'm just saying, you're a bit more passionate about this than most folks.

 

Edited January 31, 2014 by Paul G.

[MtB]

 

 

Providing that you have registered it with the HM land registry i can see no problem..

Its your property and is so for nearly 25 years still is or what ever deals he has carried out since then.

 

 

Actually, no it isn't. It's a lease. The land is being rented.

 

What a leasee gets is a right to occupy the property defined for whatever the term happens to be, provided the terms of the lease are met and the rent is paid. Ground rent in the case of a 'long lease'.

 

If the landlord goes bust, all that happens is the leasees get a change of landlord. The new owner of the site steps into the shoes of the previous landlord and the process is (supposedly) a seemless experience for the leasees.

 

MtB

[One sheet]

But not everyone shares your passion for confrontation and litigation, nor your extreme dislike of Paul Lillie. There are many people who just don't want to be involved in a conflict. (Any conflict, not just this one.) Neither the money nor the principle are worth it.You have a lot of energy that you direct towards Paul Lillie. Not everyone finds him worthy of such devotion.

 

I don't mean to sound critical of you, it's not up to me to judge. I'm just saying, you're a bit more passionate about this than most folks.

 

I smell a big U Turn or wot

[Dank]

One thing that seems to have been overlooked when taking out leases is future earnings. I took out a lease as well as life membership of English Heritage and National Trust plus others while I was earning good money. Overkill you may think but now I am on a pension I can have days out relax and enjoy myself without having to worry about pennies.

It's called forward thinking.

[One sheet]

One thing that seems to have been overlooked when taking out leases is future earnings. I took out a lease as well as life membership of English Heritage and National Trust plus others while I was earning good money. Overkill you may think but now I am on a pension I can have days out relax and enjoy myself without having to worry about pennies.It's called forward thinking.

In this day and age, you cannot give your hard

Earnt money to any body to play with.

Thinking your saving yourself.we all remember

What Robert Maxwell did

[Dank]

In this day and age, you cannot give your hard

Earnt money to any body to play with.

Thinking your saving yourself.we all remember

What Robert Maxwell did

He drowned

You miss the point OS - once it's spent you don't have to worry about it.

[Phantasm]

I noticed a massive advert on the back page of the Towpath magazine for Pillings Marina...big event on March 5th... ..looks a lovely marina/restaurant. Is that event going to go on as planned I wonder?

 

 

 

 

All against the local planning consent no doubt!!

Extract from the application decision

 

10 - Notwithstanding the provisions of the Town and Country Planning (Use Classes) Order 1987 or the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 1995, or any Order revoking and re enacting those Orders, the use of the building hereby permitted shall be limited to purposes solely ancillary to the use of the site for the mooring of boats at the marina and for fishing. None of the retail activity hereby permitted shall be promoted as being available for use by persons other than those also using the marina and fishing facilities and none of these uses shall function or be operated independently of the marina and fishing facilities. The goods retailed from the site shall be restricted to those associated with boating and fishing activities at the site.

 

REASON: The site lies in an area, and in a particular location, where uses other than those strictly associated with the primary use hereby permitted would be likely to be detrimental to the character and appearance of the countryside, would generate a level of turning movements into and out of Flesh Hovel Lane at its Barrow Road junction and a use of Flesh Hovel Lane that would not be in the interests of highway safety and would not be in accord with development plan policy relating to rural recreational development.

 

11 - The occupation of the dwelling to be incorporated into the building hereby permitted shall be limited to a person solely or mainly employed in the operation of the marina and fishing lakes, or a widow or widower of such a person, and to any resident dependants.

REASON: The application site is located in an area where new dwellings are not normally permitted. This grant of permission has been given solely to meet a special and specific need.

 

14 - The car parking areas, associated accessways and the other open landscaped areas of land in the site shall not be used for any other purpose, including the display of goods for sale, open storage of any description, the holding of markets, fairs or for camping or caravanning purposes.

REASON: In the interests of the visual amenities of the area, to ensure that the spaces remain available for their intended purpose and to preclude the further intensification of the use of Flesh Hovel Lane, and its junction with Barrow Road, in the interests of highway safety.

[One sheet]

He drownedYou miss the point OS - once it's spent you don't have to worry about it.

Am sure the poor lease holders at PLM are not worrying a bout it

[Stilllearning]

 

 

Extract from the application decision

 

10 - Notwithstanding the provisions of the Town and Country Planning (Use Classes) Order 1987 or the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 1995, or any Order revoking and re enacting those Orders, the use of the building hereby permitted shall be limited to purposes solely ancillary to the use of the site for the mooring of boats at the marina and for fishing. None of the retail activity hereby permitted shall be promoted as being available for use by persons other than those also using the marina and fishing facilities and none of these uses shall function or be operated independently of the marina and fishing facilities. The goods retailed from the site shall be restricted to those associated with boating and fishing activities at the site.

 

REASON: The site lies in an area, and in a particular location, where uses other than those strictly associated with the primary use hereby permitted would be likely to be detrimental to the character and appearance of the countryside, would generate a level of turning movements into and out of Flesh Hovel Lane at its Barrow Road junction and a use of Flesh Hovel Lane that would not be in the interests of highway safety and would not be in accord with development plan policy relating to rural recreational development.

 

11 - The occupation of the dwelling to be incorporated into the building hereby permitted shall be limited to a person solely or mainly employed in the operation of the marina and fishing lakes, or a widow or widower of such a person, and to any resident dependants.

REASON: The application site is located in an area where new dwellings are not normally permitted. This grant of permission has been given solely to meet a special and specific need.

 

14 - The car parking areas, associated accessways and the other open landscaped areas of land in the site shall not be used for any other purpose, including the display of goods for sale, open storage of any description, the holding of markets, fairs or for camping or caravanning purposes.

REASON: In the interests of the visual amenities of the area, to ensure that the spaces remain available for their intended purpose and to preclude the further intensification of the use of Flesh Hovel Lane, and its junction with Barrow Road, in the interests of highway safety.

Would it be mischievous if someone were to bring this activity to the notice of the Planning department?

[Dank]

Am sure the poor lease holders at PLM are not worrying a bout it

Once again OS you miss the point - I am one of those lease holders

[Jerra]

 

Actually, no it isn't. It's a lease. The land is being rented.

 

What a leasee gets is a right to occupy the property defined for whatever the term happens to be, provided the terms of the lease are met and the rent is paid. Ground rent in the case of a 'long lease'.

 

If the landlord goes bust, all that happens is the leasees get a change of landlord. The new owner of the site steps into the shoes of the previous landlord and the process is (supposedly) a seemless experience for the leasees.

 

MtB

Just a thought. If people have paid "up front" for a lease then the lease transfers to a new owner won't this have a knock on effect on the profitability of the marina?

 

I assume the new owner won't be being paid a second time and so a percentage of their moorings aren't contributing to the NAA fees.

 

Or am I missing something?

[One sheet]

Once again OS you miss the point - I am one of those lease holders

Then your worries are over.and good Luck for the future.

[MtB]

Would it be mischievous if someone were to bring this activity to the notice of the Planning department?

 

It would certainly help drive the marina business as a whole more quickly into insolvency, if you think that would be a Good Thing.

 

 

MtB

[Stilllearning]

 

It would certainly help drive the marina business as a whole more quickly into insolvency, if you think that would be a Good Thing.

 

 

MtB

Not sure to be honest.

It is already going into insolvency, though it is not clear to me if the holiday accommodation and the cafe/restaurant are part of the same business. (very unlikely IMO)

It's galling to suspect that businesses can be run whilst possibly deliberately flouting planning decisions. The rest of us have to abide by the rules.