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Dispute at Pillings


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For £11999 Id want it Veeeeerrrrryyyy Smmmoooooth

 

Insurance group 17 (out of 17 groups)

 

The Triumph Rocket III is the biggest, most bad-ass motorcycle money can buy. The specs are awesome a 2.3-litre engine producing almost 150ft lb of torque, pistons the same size as those found in a Dodge Viper supercar and what was at one time the biggest back tyre on a production bike… The Triumph Rocket III is simply an incredible experience and bravo to Triumph for making it.

I always knew I had big pistons!! Yep, it is awesome, the best thing on the road. But changed now to a Honda Pan St1100.

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Dear Paul

 

Thank you for copying me in to your email. I think it is appropriate for me to respond setting out the Trusts position.

 

I can confirm that an email was received from Roy Rollings, Director of No.750 Leicester Limited, with whom we have been in previous correspondence, at 18.10 yesterday evening advising the Trust that a different company, Pillings Lock Trading Limited (company no.08957508), acquired ownership of Pillings Lock Marina yesterday and that this company would now like to enter into talks with the Trust with a view to securing a new Network Access Agreement.

 

Pillings Lock Trading Limited was incorporated on 25 March 2014 and Mr Rollings is sole Director of the company. The company is a wholly owned subsidiary of No.750 Leicester Limited of which Mr Rollings is also sole Director. The sole shareholder of No 750 Leicester Limited is Quorn Marina Holdings Limited (company no. 6002830) of which Mr Paul Lillie is sole Director and a shareholder.

 

At present, the Trust has not been provided with any documentary evidence to confirm that Pillings Lock Trading Limited has acquired the Marina and the Trust will shortly be writing to Mr Rollings to ask that a certified copy of the Transfer Deed evidencing the sale is provided so that the Trust can be clear as to which company to enter into discussions with for a new Network Access Agreement.

 

The Trust is willing to enter into discussions with Pillings Lock Trading Limited if it is the new owner of the Marina, however at present no information has been provided to the Trust to enable it to understand how this company will be funded, how the structure of the various companies within the group will operate the Marina and what, if any, financial security will be offered to satisfy the Trust that the company can meet the financial obligations which would exist under the terms of any new Network Access Agreement to ensure that the position of both the Trust and berth holders is adequately protected.

 

The Trust will shortly be responding to Mr Rollings to seek further information.

 

Regards

 

Phil Spencer

Running a sweepstake on how long before this appears elsewhere as if it were factual!

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For £11999 Id want it Veeeeerrrrryyyy Smmmoooooth

 

Insurance group 17 (out of 17 groups)

 

The Triumph Rocket III is the biggest, most bad-ass motorcycle money can buy. The specs are awesome a 2.3-litre engine producing almost 150ft lb of torque, pistons the same size as those found in a Dodge Viper supercar and what was at one time the biggest back tyre on a production bike… The Triumph Rocket III is simply an incredible experience and bravo to Triumph for making it.

 

I'm confused, I thought it was B.S.A Rocket 3 or Triumph Trident!

 

bod

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Running a sweepstake on how long before this appears elsewhere as if it were factual!

Lol (edited to say) the email is brilliant and one now wonders if the other media will indeed report it as such

Edited by StarUKKiwi
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The Trust is willing to enter into discussions with Pillings Lock Trading Limited if it is the new owner of the Marina, however at present no information has been provided to the Trust to enable it to understand how this company will be funded, how the structure of the various companies within the group will operate the Marina and what, if any, financial security will be offered to satisfy the Trust that the company can meet the financial obligations which would exist under the terms of any new Network Access Agreement to ensure that the position of both the Trust and berth holders is adequately protected.

 

The Trust will shortly be responding to Mr Rollings to seek further information.

 

Regards

 

Phil Spencer

 

Way to go Phil !!!!

 

Rather puts the boot on the other foot - who is concerned about the moorers Little Lillie or C&RT

 

I'm confused, I thought it was B.S.A Rocket 3 or Triumph Trident!

 

bod

http://www.triumphrocket.com/

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Mike the Boilerman, on 27 Mar 2014 - 10:09 PM, said:Mike the Boilerman, on 27 Mar 2014 - 10:09 PM, said:

It's gonna cost a hefty lump of dosh in Stamp Duty Land Tax to produce that Transfer Deed, a copy of which CRT are demanding.

 

Maybe as much as 15% of the £2m value according to this link http://www.elsstampduty.co.uk/stampduty.html

 

 

 

HMRC has different figures :

 

SDLT rates for non-residential or mixed use properties

Non-residential property includes:

  • commercial property such as shops or offices
  • agricultural land
  • forests
  • any other land or property which is not used as a dwelling
  • six or more residential properties bought in a single transaction

A mixed use property is one that incorporates both residential and non-residential elements.

The table below applies for freehold and leasehold non-residential and mixed use purchases and transfers.

If the transaction involves the purchase of a new lease with a substantial annual rent, there may be additional SDLT charge to that shown below, based on the rent. See the later section and table for more detail.

Non-residential land or property rates and thresholds

 

Purchase price/lease premium or transfer value (non-residential or mixed use)

SDLT rate

Up to £150,000 - annual rent is under £1,000 SDLT =Zero

Up to £150,000 - annual rent is £1,000 or more SDLT = 1%

Over £150,000 to £250,000 SDLT = 1%

Over £250,000 to £500,000 SDLT = 3%

Over £500,000 SDLT = 4%

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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As previously posted, but with headers intact.... I had this email forwarded from a friend at Pillings this evening.

 

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: Phil Spencer <Phil.Spencer@canalrivertrust.org.uk>

Date: 27 Mar 2014 17:35

Subject: FW: New Company Set-Up Complete

To: Phil Spencer <Phil.Spencer@canalrivertrust.org.uk>

Cc:

 

Dear Boat Licence Customer

 

 

 

Many of you may have already received a copy of my email below but as I do not know who Mr Lillie’s email group included I am forwarding it to you.

 

 

 

Kind regards

 

 

 

Phil Spencer

 

 

 

Head of Business Boating

 

 

 

Canal & River Trust | Fearns Wharf | Neptune Street | Leeds | LS9 8PB | M: 07710 175342 | DD: 0113 281 6833 |

 

 

 

Please visit http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/ to find out more about the Canal & River Trust.

 

 

 

 

 

From: Phil Spencer

Sent: 27 March 2014 16:36

To: 'Pillings Back Office'; 'Pillings Lock'

Cc: 'Pillings Lock Reception Desk'; Roy Rollings; 'Paul Lillie'; Richard Parry; zoe.wright@shoosmiths.co.uk; Lynne Berry; editor@canalboatmag.co.uk; editor@wwonline.co.uk; editorial@towpathtalk.co.uk; editor@narrowboatworld.com

Subject: RE: New Company Set-Up Complete

 

 

 

Dear Paul

 

 

 

Thank you for copying me in to your email. I think it is appropriate for me to respond setting out the Trusts position.

 

 

 

I can confirm that an email was received from Roy Rollings, Director of No.750 Leicester Limited, with whom we have been in previous correspondence, at 18.10 yesterday evening advising the Trust that a different company, Pillings Lock Trading Limited (company no.08957508), acquired ownership of Pillings Lock Marina yesterday and that this company would now like to enter into talks with the Trust with a view to securing a new Network Access Agreement.

 

 

 

Pillings Lock Trading Limited was incorporated on 25 March 2014 and Mr Rollings is sole Director of the company. The company is a wholly owned subsidiary of No.750 Leicester Limited of which Mr Rollings is also sole Director. The sole shareholder of No 750 Leicester Limited is Quorn Marina Holdings Limited (company no. 6002830) of which Mr Paul Lillie is sole Director and a shareholder.

 

 

 

At present, the Trust has not been provided with any documentary evidence to confirm that Pillings Lock Trading Limited has acquired the Marina and the Trust will shortly be writing to Mr Rollings to ask that a certified copy of the Transfer Deed evidencing the sale is provided so that the Trust can be clear as to which company to enter into discussions with for a new Network Access Agreement.

 

 

 

The Trust is willing to enter into discussions with Pillings Lock Trading Limited if it is the new owner of the Marina, however at present no information has been provided to the Trust to enable it to understand how this company will be funded, how the structure of the various companies within the group will operate the Marina and what, if any, financial security will be offered to satisfy the Trust that the company can meet the financial obligations which would exist under the terms of any new Network Access Agreement to ensure that the position of both the Trust and berth holders is adequately protected.

 

 

 

The Trust will shortly be responding to Mr Rollings to seek further information.

 

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

Phil Spencer

 

 

 

Head of Business Boating

 

 

 

Canal & River Trust | Fearns Wharf | Neptune Street | Leeds | LS9 8PB | M: 07710 175342 | DD: 0113 281 6833 |

 

 

 

Please visit http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/ to find out more about the Canal & River Trust.

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As previously posted, but with headers intact.... I had this email forwarded from a friend at Pillings this evening.

 

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: Phil Spencer <Phil.Spencer@canalrivertrust.org.uk>

Date: 27 Mar 2014 17:35

Subject: FW: New Company Set-Up Complete

To: Phil Spencer <Phil.Spencer@canalrivertrust.org.uk>

Cc:

 

Dear Boat Licence Customer

 

 

 

Many of you may have already received a copy of my email below but as I do not know who Mr Lillie’s email group included I am forwarding it to you.

 

 

 

Kind regards

 

 

 

Phil Spencer

 

 

 

Head of Business Boating

 

 

 

Canal & River Trust | Fearns Wharf | Neptune Street | Leeds | LS9 8PB | M: 07710 175342 | DD: 0113 281 6833 |

 

 

 

Please visit http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/ to find out more about the Canal & River Trust.

 

 

 

 

 

From: Phil Spencer

Sent: 27 March 2014 16:36

To: 'Pillings Back Office'; 'Pillings Lock'

Cc: 'Pillings Lock Reception Desk'; Roy Rollings; 'Paul Lillie'; Richard Parry; zoe.wright@shoosmiths.co.uk; Lynne Berry; editor@canalboatmag.co.uk; editor@wwonline.co.uk; editorial@towpathtalk.co.uk; editor@narrowboatworld.com

Subject: RE: New Company Set-Up Complete

 

 

 

Dear Paul

 

 

 

Thank you for copying me in to your email. I think it is appropriate for me to respond setting out the Trusts position.

 

 

 

I can confirm that an email was received from Roy Rollings, Director of No.750 Leicester Limited, with whom we have been in previous correspondence, at 18.10 yesterday evening advising the Trust that a different company, Pillings Lock Trading Limited (company no.08957508), acquired ownership of Pillings Lock Marina yesterday and that this company would now like to enter into talks with the Trust with a view to securing a new Network Access Agreement.

 

 

 

Pillings Lock Trading Limited was incorporated on 25 March 2014 and Mr Rollings is sole Director of the company. The company is a wholly owned subsidiary of No.750 Leicester Limited of which Mr Rollings is also sole Director. The sole shareholder of No 750 Leicester Limited is Quorn Marina Holdings Limited (company no. 6002830) of which Mr Paul Lillie is sole Director and a shareholder.

 

 

 

At present, the Trust has not been provided with any documentary evidence to confirm that Pillings Lock Trading Limited has acquired the Marina and the Trust will shortly be writing to Mr Rollings to ask that a certified copy of the Transfer Deed evidencing the sale is provided so that the Trust can be clear as to which company to enter into discussions with for a new Network Access Agreement.

 

 

 

The Trust is willing to enter into discussions with Pillings Lock Trading Limited if it is the new owner of the Marina, however at present no information has been provided to the Trust to enable it to understand how this company will be funded, how the structure of the various companies within the group will operate the Marina and what, if any, financial security will be offered to satisfy the Trust that the company can meet the financial obligations which would exist under the terms of any new Network Access Agreement to ensure that the position of both the Trust and berth holders is adequately protected.

 

 

 

The Trust will shortly be responding to Mr Rollings to seek further information.

 

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

Phil Spencer

 

 

 

Head of Business Boating

 

 

 

Canal & River Trust | Fearns Wharf | Neptune Street | Leeds | LS9 8PB | M: 07710 175342 | DD: 0113 281 6833 |

 

 

 

Please visit http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/ to find out more about the Canal & River Trust.

Thank-you Marc for your clear and concise confirmation that CRT are not playing Paul Lillies petty games, but making sure that the finances are sorted properly to make sure that the Trust can allocate the NAA funds appropriately without a re-occurence of the previous robbery, fraud , mismanagement.

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I may have missed it amongst the motorbikes - but -

 

Is the feeling that now we have PLT (Pillings Lock Trading) as the apparent operating company running the Marina, what need is there for PLM (Pillings Lock marina) ?

 

Is the feeling that PLM will now fold - and if it does what happens to all those moorers who have paid their mooring fees to PLM ?

Presumably they will be on the heap of unsecured creditors.

Will the existing moorers now have to take out new mooring contracts (and pay again) with PLT.

 

If so it may be the 'wake up call' that they seem to need to take of the "Lille tinted spectacles"

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Dear Paul

 

Thank you for copying me in to your email. I think it is appropriate for me to respond setting out the Trusts position.

 

I can confirm that an email was received from Roy Rollings, Director of No.750 Leicester Limited, with whom we have been in previous correspondence, at 18.10 yesterday evening advising the Trust that a different company, Pillings Lock Trading Limited (company no.08957508), acquired ownership of Pillings Lock Marina yesterday and that this company would now like to enter into talks with the Trust with a view to securing a new Network Access Agreement.

 

Pillings Lock Trading Limited was incorporated on 25 March 2014 and Mr Rollings is sole Director of the company. The company is a wholly owned subsidiary of No.750 Leicester Limited of which Mr Rollings is also sole Director. The sole shareholder of No 750 Leicester Limited is Quorn Marina Holdings Limited (company no. 6002830) of which Mr Paul Lillie is sole Director and a shareholder.

 

At present, the Trust has not been provided with any documentary evidence to confirm that Pillings Lock Trading Limited has acquired the Marina and the Trust will shortly be writing to Mr Rollings to ask that a certified copy of the Transfer Deed evidencing the sale is provided so that the Trust can be clear as to which company to enter into discussions with for a new Network Access Agreement.

 

The Trust is willing to enter into discussions with Pillings Lock Trading Limited if it is the new owner of the Marina, however at present no information has been provided to the Trust to enable it to understand how this company will be funded, how the structure of the various companies within the group will operate the Marina and what, if any, financial security will be offered to satisfy the Trust that the company can meet the financial obligations which would exist under the terms of any new Network Access Agreement to ensure that the position of both the Trust and berth holders is adequately protected.

 

The Trust will shortly be responding to Mr Rollings to seek further information.

 

Regards

 

Phil Spencer

 

Thank you for this, Wilbur. It's very enlightening.

 

ROFLMAO - Apparently PL thinks that adding another corporate layer of separation is somehow going to make CRT feel more secure. What a laugh!

 

At least CRT seems to be sticking to their guns as far as requiring some kind of reasonable guarantee that the NAA will be paid. Personally, I will be surprised if CRT approves any company that has anything at all to do with Paul Lillie. Since PL has shot his mouth off so much about how unfair CRT is, and continues even to this day to blame CRT for his financial mismanagement, I'd imagine that CRT knows that he will be a constant thorn in their side and I doubt they will allow that to happen. PL has shown that he can't be dealt with, and I would be surprised if CRT simply refuses to have anything to do with him or any company he is associated with.

 

I dare say PL is history as far as PLM is concerned. Why would anyone at CRT allow themselves to be bothered by such a moron ever again, if they could avoid it?

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I may have missed it amongst the motorbikes - but -

 

Is the feeling that now we have PLT (Pillings Lock Trading) as the apparent operating company running the Marina, what need is there for PLM (Pillings Lock marina) ?

 

Is the feeling that PLM will now fold - and if it does what happens to all those moorers who have paid their mooring fees to PLM ?

Presumably they will be on the heap of unsecured creditors.

Will the existing moorers now have to take out new mooring contracts (and pay again) with PLT.

 

If so it may be the 'wake up call' that they seem to need to take of the "Lille tinted spectacles"

 

But is it the new operating company? Wasn't the old QMP the marina owner, with a mortgage to Steadman? QMP owned and PLM managed if I recall the old set-up properly.

 

Regardless, it appears that PLM is deeply in debt with few tangible assets, so they will most likely go into receivership next.

It'll be interesting to see what stance a certain other narrowboat magazine-type website will take, as they were copied with the email

 

Yeah, their latest article made it sound like the NAA was almost a done deal, whilst the fact is PLT can't even get in the door until they show the proper ID. I wonder if those other guys even report this?

Edited by Paul G2
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But is it the new operating company? Wasn't the old QMP the marina owner, with a mortgage to Steadman? QMP owned and PLM managed if I recall the old set-up properly.

 

Regardless, it appears that PLM is deeply in debt with few tangible assets, so they will most likely go into receivership next.

 

Yes and now "750 Leicester", as the new owner, have replaced QMP, and PLT as the company now operating the marina have replaced PLM (who were the marina operators)

 

It would appear that now PLM have no income and no place in the Pillings Lock company structure

Paul Lillie is now MD of an apparently "non-trading" company.

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Purchase price/lease premium or transfer value (non-residential or mixed use)

SDLT rate

Up to £150,000 - annual rent is under £1,000 SDLT =Zero

Up to £150,000 - annual rent is £1,000 or more SDLT = 1%

Over £150,000 to £250,000 SDLT = 1%

Over £250,000 to £500,000 SDLT = 3%

Over £500,000 SDLT = 4%

 

Interesting. The Stamp Duty Investigation Specialists website whose like I posted lists the same figures, but also a further threshold of £2m where the rate steps up to 7%.

 

In addition, it states £2m "purchased by certain persons including corporate bodies" is charged at 15%.

 

I apprecite these two further figures are missing from the HMRC site but equally, I'd expect a firm of Stamp Duty Investigation Specialists to be getting it right!

 

 

MtB

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Yes and now "750 Leicester", as the new owner, have replaced QMP, and PLT as the company now operating the marina have replaced PLM (who were the marina operators)

 

It would appear that now PLM have no income and no place in the Pillings Lock company structure

Paul Lillie is now MD of an apparently "non-trading" company.

 

No, that is not correct. Read what was said, Per Phil Spencer:

 

I can confirm that an email was received from Roy Rollings, Director of No.750 Leicester Limited, with whom we have been in previous correspondence, at 18.10 yesterday evening advising the Trust that a different company, Pillings Lock Trading Limited (company no.08957508), acquired ownership of Pillings Lock Marina yesterday and that this company would now like to enter into talks with the Trust with a view to securing a new Network Access Agreement.

 

 

So, No. 750 Leicester doesn't own the marina, PLT does. Ergo, PLT is in the same position as the old QMP - this according to the latest information available from Mr. Spencer and CRT.

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Interesting. The Stamp Duty Investigation Specialists website whose like I posted lists the same figures, but also a further threshold of £2m where the rate steps up to 7%.

 

In addition, it states £2m "purchased by certain persons including corporate bodies" is charged at 15%.

 

I apprecite these two further figures are missing from the HMRC site but equally, I'd expect a firm of Stamp Duty Investigation Specialists to be getting it right!

 

 

MtB

 

Higher rate for corporate bodies

From 21 March 2012 SDLT is charged at 15% on interests in residential dwellings costing more than £2 million purchased by certain non-natural persons. This broadly includes bodies corporate, for example companies, collective investment schemes and all partnerships with one or more members who are either a body corporate or a collective investment scheme. There are exclusions for companies acting in their capacity as trustees for a settlement and property developers who meet certain conditions.

 

I dont know - just copying from HMRC website on SDLT

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Yes and now "750 Leicester", as the new owner, have replaced QMP, and PLT as the company now operating the marina have replaced PLM (who were the marina operators)

 

 

But sir, SIR... no they haven't!!

 

Phil Spencer's email says PLT are the new owners of the marina as of yesterday, not No750LLtd. No750LLtd appears never to have owned it.

 

So PLT seems to have taken on the roles of both QMP and PLM, leaving No750LLtd as insulating wadding so Mr Steadman can keep his hands clean in the event of future feck-ups.

 

MtB

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No, that is not correct. Read what was said, Per Phil Spencer:

 

 

So, No. 750 Leicester doesn't own the marina, PLT does. Ergo, PLT is in the same position as the old QMP - this according to the latest information available from Mr. Spencer and CRT.

 

Ok - good point.

So 'who the hell' are "750 Leicester", what do they bring to the party ?

 

But - the question still is what does PLM ltd do now ?

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Higher rate for corporate bodies

From 21 March 2012 SDLT is charged at 15% on interests in residential dwellings costing more than £2 million purchased by certain non-natural persons. This broadly includes bodies corporate, for example companies, collective investment schemes and all partnerships with one or more members who are either a body corporate or a collective investment scheme. There are exclusions for companies acting in their capacity as trustees for a settlement and property developers who meet certain conditions.

 

I dont know - just copying from HMRC website on SDLT

 

 

Looks like we are using different tables. The table I'm quoting is headed:

 

"The table below applies for freehold and leasehold non-residential and mixed use purchases and transfers. Non-residential land or property rates and thresholds. Purchase price/lease premium or transfer value (non-residential or mixed use)"

 

UK Stamp Duty Land Tax rates: Mixed use Up to £150,000 - annual rent is under £1,000

0%

 

£150,000 - annual rent is £1,000 or more

1%

 

£150,000 to £250,000

1%

 

£250,000 to £500,000

3%

 

Over £500,000

4%

 

£2 million

7%

 

£2 million (purchased by certain persons including corporate bodies)

15%

 

Stamp Duty becomes payable on completion of the property purchase.

 

 

I reckon PLT counts as a corporate body...

 

 

MtB

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Ok - good point.

So 'who the hell' are "750 Leicester", what do they bring to the party ?

 

But - the question still is what does PLM ltd do now ?

 

750LL is just some off the shelf company that was originally going to own the marina until someone changed their mind. Now it is just another layer of corporate ownership.

 

Nothing official has yet been said about who will do the managing, so presumably it is still PLM. But PLM was owed £1.6 million by QMP and when QMP went bust that asset went bye-bye, so now PLM is deeply in the hole and it's hard to see how they can keep operating. But one might say, the writing is on the wall as far as PLM's future is concerned.

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This is the complete section I am refering to ( the bit about the 15% ......... is only in the residential section)

 

SDLT rates for non-residential or mixed use properties

Non-residential property includes:

  • commercial property such as shops or offices
  • agricultural land
  • forests
  • any other land or property which is not used as a dwelling
  • six or more residential properties bought in a single transaction

A mixed use property is one that incorporates both residential and non-residential elements.

The table below applies for freehold and leasehold non-residential and mixed use purchases and transfers.

If the transaction involves the purchase of a new lease with a substantial annual rent, there may be additional SDLT charge to that shown below, based on the rent. See the later section and table for more detail.

Non-residential land or property rates and thresholds

 

Purchase price/lease premium or transfer value (non-residential or mixed use)

SDLT rate

Up to £150,000 - annual rent is under £1,000

Zero

Up to £150,000 - annual rent is £1,000 or more

1%

Over £150,000 to £250,000

1%

Over £250,000 to £500,000

3%

Over £500,000

4%

Note that for the above purpose the annual rent is the highest annual rent known to be payable in any year of the lease, not the net present value used to determine any tax payable on the rent as described below.

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Looks like we are using different tables. The table I'm quoting is headed:

 

"The table below applies for freehold and leasehold non-residential and mixed use purchases and transfers. Non-residential land or property rates and thresholds. Purchase price/lease premium or transfer value (non-residential or mixed use)"

 

UK Stamp Duty Land Tax rates: Mixed use Up to £150,000 - annual rent is under £1,000

0%

 

£150,000 - annual rent is £1,000 or more

1%

 

£150,000 to £250,000

1%

 

£250,000 to £500,000

3%

 

Over £500,000

4%

 

£2 million

7%

 

£2 million (purchased by certain persons including corporate bodies)

15%

 

Stamp Duty becomes payable on completion of the property purchase.

 

 

I reckon PLT counts as a corporate body...

 

 

MtB

 

MTB - Is this a tax that has to be paid every time a property changes ownership? If so, this tax is going to be a lot more than paying the NAA would have been, isn't it?

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