CRT Press Release - Spreading the work about the demands of living afloat

[Bettie Boo]

On the basis of your eloquent and rational argument I will not disagree with any of the points you make.

 

However, as in all walks of life, there is something called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Anyone wishing to take up a life afloat on the canals should ensure that they believe they can comply with the rules and regulations, and are prepared to do so before they buy a boat.

 

If that were the case, then we wouldn't have to rake over the same arguments ad infinitude, and CaRT could get on with maintaining the system.

 

Obviously, from time to time there will be exceptional circumstances. Such as a person suffering ill health, where the rules may be relaxed to accommodate visits to hospital, or a recovery period.

very well put

[DeanS]

 

However, as in all walks of life, there is something called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILTY. Anyone wishing to take up a life afloat on the canals should ensure that they believe they can comply with the rules and regulations, and are prepared to do so before they buy a boat.

 

Yes, but again a little reality to spice up the mix. A person buys a boat with various intentions, but due to PERSONAL CIRCUMSTANCES finds that it is no longer as easy to have lots of MONEY, or TIME, and will therefore try their best to MAKE IT WORK. I am not suggesting they stay in the same place for 15 days. I am saying that those folk should NOT feel GUILTY because they think the world is after them, because they only travelled 19kms in a year instead of 20km. I sincerely think those who stay in one place for weeks on end will most likely be picked up on CRTs radar in time, and those who dont, should be left alone to live their boating lives in PEACE AND QUIET and without any judgement.

[NigelMoore]

 

Yes, but again a little reality to spice up the mix. A person buys a boat with various intentions, but due to PERSONAL CIRCUMSTANCES finds that it is no longer as easy to have lots of MONEY, or TIME, and will therefore try their best to MAKE IT WORK. I am not suggesting they stay in the same place for 15 days. I am saying that those folk should NOT feel GUILTY because they think the world is after them, because they only travelled 19kms in a year instead of 20km. I sincerely think those who stay in one place for weeks on end will most likely be picked up on CRTs radar in time, and those who dont, should be left alone to live their boating lives in PEACE AND QUIET and without any judgement.

 

Perfect approach, DeanS. Greenie duly awarded. Apologies in advance for any embarrassment caused.

[PhilR]

 

Yes, but again a little reality to spice up the mix. A person buys a boat with various intentions, but due to PERSONAL CIRCUMSTANCES finds that it is no longer as easy to have lots of MONEY, or TIME, and will therefore try their best to MAKE IT WORK. I am not suggesting they stay in the same place for 15 days. I am saying that those folk should NOT feel GUILTY because they think the world is after them, because they only travelled 19kms in a year instead of 20km. I sincerely think those who stay in one place for weeks on end will most likely be picked up on CRTs radar in time, and those who dont, should be left alone to live their boating lives in PEACE AND QUIET and without any judgement.

 

20 kilometres per year would probably cost about £4 in diesel Why do you mention 20? Is that just a random example?

[Alan de Enfield]

 

20 kilometres per year would probably cost about £4 in diesel Why do you mention 20? Is that just a random example?

 

Possibly because I incorrectly quoted this figure in another thread as being an 'acceptable distance' to comply with CC 'rules' as mentioned C&RT.

The distance actually quoted by C&RT was 30 km

[Ange]

You have missed a couple of points I made or I didn't make them clear enough.

 

I still feel that anybody who moves one and a half hours every fortnight (average) isn't conforming to what the spirit of what parliament intended.

 

 

 

Why not? If they move consistently in the same direction maybe they are making the absolute most of each place they stop, exploring the local environment and then moving along

Exactly! We spent our first three years of cc'ing travelling many miles and confirming to the traditionally held concept of what a "true ccer" is. Last year we decided that we had charged through too many areas without actually seeing much of it.

 

So last year we pootled. We ambled. We explored. We climbed hills, visited stately homes, castles, museums and observatories. And we had a fantastic year. I've no idea what our average was but most of the time we stayed the full two weeks at one spot then ambled up to the next place to spend the next two weeks.

 

The whole idea of buying a boat and living on it was to explore this beautiful and fascinating country of ours. I think our cruising pattern in 2013 was exactly in the spirit of what Parliament intended, and exactly why they left the definitions so vague.

 

We intend to do the same next year.

[MtB]

Well said Ange.

 

Totally different from boaters shuffling up and down a 20km stretch complaining they need to be near work and the kids need to be near their skool.

 

MtB

[Jerra]

So last year we pootled. We ambled. We explored. We climbed hills, visited stately homes, castles, museums and observatories.

And I suspect covered a lot more than the 30km so called minimum.

[Bettie Boo]

 

 

Exactly! We spent our first three years of cc'ing travelling many miles and confirming to the traditionally held concept of what a "true ccer" is. Last year we decided that we had charged through too many areas without actually seeing much of it.

 

So last year we pootled. We ambled. We explored. We climbed hills, visited stately homes, castles, museums and observatories. And we had a fantastic year. I've no idea what our average was but most of the time we stayed the full two weeks at one spot then ambled up to the next place to spend the next two weeks.

 

The whole idea of buying a boat and living on it was to explore this beautiful and fascinating country of ours. I think our cruising pattern in 2013 was exactly in the spirit of what Parliament intended, and exactly why they left the definitions so vague.

 

We intend to do the same next year.

Ange - what you've described above "too me", describes the idyllic life of being a livaboard cc'er. Both what you did in 2013 and before, I am looking forward to both

[Jim Batty]

 

Why not? If they move consistently in the same direction maybe they are making the absolute most of each place they stop, exploring the local environment and then moving along

 

This is spot on. There are MANY different ways to continuously cruise: 1) all over the system in two years; 2) all over the system in five years; 3) all over the system forever; 4) following giant rings; 5) criss-crossing a geographical area over a period of a year or two or more; 6) getting to know Alan Fincher's River Lee INTIMATELY; 7) visiting favourite areas seasonally; 8) visiting five favourite areas on a two-year cycle; ... you name it.

 

I find tiring the often unconscious -- sometimes conscious -- general assumption that 'real' CCing only consists in (1) or (2).

 

Not everyone wants to hare around the entire system in 'hire-boat mode' simply covering distance, ticking off place after place, and following up every canal cul-de-sac to be able to say they have been there. I do understand how this type of CCing could be enjoyable -- as a kind of challenge or 'stunt'. But it is not for me.

 

There is a lot to be said for travelling slowly, spending a couple of weeks in and around individual places, whether rural or urban. Experiencing, learning about a region's history, wildlife, culture, Explore it in depth. Allowing it to inspire your own projects.

 

I think part of the reason CCing guidelines concerning 'place' are ambiguous ... is because they were meant to be ambiguous. Open to interpretation. To allow some flexibility in the different ways continuously cruising is undertaken. Trying to impose one type of pattern on everyone would be mad, and probably impossible. Of course, that doesn't justify taking the p*ss. But most CCers are quietly moving about at their own speed and following their own patterns anyway. Possibly at 100m/week. So what?

Edited January 16, 2014 by Jim Batty

[Athy]

bona fide navigation (in the real English language sense of the term)

 

 

MtB

[quote

 

 

 

 

 

Er, please Sir, "bona fide" is Latin.

[DeanS]

and peace comes to the thread at last....hummmmmmmm..lol

[churchward]

 

 

Exactly! We spent our first three years of cc'ing travelling many miles and confirming to the traditionally held concept of what a "true ccer" is. Last year we decided that we had charged through too many areas without actually seeing much of it.

 

So last year we pootled. We ambled. We explored. We climbed hills, visited stately homes, castles, museums and observatories. And we had a fantastic year. I've no idea what our average was but most of the time we stayed the full two weeks at one spot then ambled up to the next place to spend the next two weeks.

 

The whole idea of buying a boat and living on it was to explore this beautiful and fascinating country of ours. I think our cruising pattern in 2013 was exactly in the spirit of what Parliament intended, and exactly why they left the definitions so vague.

 

We intend to do the same next year.

I can't see anything wrong with you doing just that.

[Quinafloat]

Having read the whole thread I can only assume that I am a "good" CCer and a "bad" CMer. On the good side, Spring, summer and autumn, I cruise 800-1000 lock miles a year, moving most days for a couple of hours. but sometimes stopping for 3 or 4 days if I have a reason. On the bad side I choose an area for the winter period and move every 12 or so days, or when I need water or a pump out, but remaining in the same area. I am retired and have no reason to be anywhere in particular apart from personal choice. Should I be forced to make a "progressive" journey in the winter months? That is when I need enough stability to have medical checkups, fix up the boat, and my body, and be in a place with services such as coal and diesel boats. I doubt very much that CaRT see me as anything threatening and have not sent me any letters apart from licence renewal forms. I do not take a winter mooring so that I retain the freedom to move if the area, and it's facilities do not suit me, without financial penalty.

 

The current "guidance" from CaRT say's I am breaking the rules but I am in nobody's way (room for 10 boats in front of me at the moment), and am cruising and mooring in accordance with my reading of the 1995 BW act. There is a difference between summer and winter that is not reflected in the CaRT guidance, nor the 1995 act. I know several boaters who have much the same seasonal cruising pattern and for much the same reasons. Are we all such bad people?

[Ange]

And I suspect covered a lot more than the 30km so called minimum.

My point is that you stated half hour cruising per fortnight as not meeting the spirit of the guidelines. Now you're adding distance to the equation.

 

The problem is everyone has their own interpretation of what they consider a "genuine" continuous cruiser - of course there are clear mickey takers but there's loads of shades of grey between the ccer who races round the system and the mickey taker. IMO it's best to leave the interpretation to CRT and the courts.

 

This has turned into an interesting discussion

[PhilR]

And I suspect covered a lot more than the 30km so called minimum.

 

 

My point is that you stated half hour cruising per fortnight as not meeting the spirit of the guidelines. Now you're adding distance to the equation.

 

The problem is everyone has their own interpretation of what they consider a "genuine" continuous cruiser - of course there are clear mickey takers but there's loads of shades of grey between the ccer who races round the system and the mickey taker. IMO it's best to leave the interpretation to CRT and the courts.

 

This has turned into an interesting discussion

 

But it does confirm that proper guidelines and rules from CaRT are long overdue.

 

Many hirers and private owners will cover approx 30 km (18.6 miles) per DAY - not per YEAR

 

[Ange]

 

 

 

But it does confirm that proper guidelines and rules from CaRT are long overdue.

 

Many hirers and private owners will cover approx 30 km (18.6 miles) per DAY - not per YEAR

 

Many hirers and private owners would have covered the distance we travelled last year in weeks. What does that prove?

[alan_fincher]

 

 

 

But it does confirm that proper guidelines and rules from CaRT are long overdue.

 

Many hirers and private owners will cover approx 30 km (18.6 miles) per DAY - not per YEAR

 

 

What any hirer or private owner that has a home mooring does is totally irrelevant to any debate about whether someone who doesn't have a home mooring is complying with "bona fide for navigation" though isn't it?

 

What someone who has no home mooring has to do to satisfy the law is defined solely by the relevant act of Parliament, and certainly not in any way by the cruising pattern of others.

[Loafer]

Having read the whole thread I can only assume that I am a "good" CCer and a "bad" CMer. On the good side, Spring, summer and autumn, I cruise 800-1000 lock miles a year, moving most days for a couple of hours. but sometimes stopping for 3 or 4 days if I have a reason. On the bad side I choose an area for the winter period and move every 12 or so days, or when I need water or a pump out, but remaining in the same area. I am retired and have no reason to be anywhere in particular apart from personal choice. Should I be forced to make a "progressive" journey in the winter months? That is when I need enough stability to have medical checkups, fix up the boat, and my body, and be in a place with services such as coal and diesel boats. I doubt very much that CaRT see me as anything threatening and have not sent me any letters apart from licence renewal forms. I do not take a winter mooring so that I retain the freedom to move if the area, and it's facilities do not suit me, without financial penalty.

 

The current "guidance" from CaRT say's I am breaking the rules but I am in nobody's way (room for 10 boats in front of me at the moment), and am cruising and mooring in accordance with my reading of the 1995 BW act. There is a difference between summer and winter that is not reflected in the CaRT guidance, nor the 1995 act. I know several boaters who have much the same seasonal cruising pattern and for much the same reasons. Are we all such bad people?

 

You sound exactly like me. I'm technically breaking the rules in winter, but I remain on 'standby' if I'm challenged by the Viet Cart. I'll move properly (or pay the winter towpath fee) if I'm asked to 'move along there'. Edited January 16, 2014 by Loafer

[Ange]

 

What any hirer or private owner that has a home mooring does is totally irrelevant to any debate about whether someone who doesn't have a home mooring is complying with "bona fide for navigation" though isn't it?

 

What someone who has no home mooring has to do to satisfy the law is defined solely by the relevant act of Parliament, and certainly not in any way by the cruising pattern of others.

Actually seeing as I've jumped up and down and shouted about our mileage the last two years I ought to confess ...

 

I've just done a very quick check on Canalplan and Worcester to Anderton and then to Bollington is 142 miles and 121 locks! That was our 2013 achievement compared to 711 miles and 548 locks in 2012 and 834 miles and 540 locks in 2011. Canalplan says we could have done it in 11 7 hour days

 

I think it very nicely proves the point though - it was bona fide navigation and totally within the rules and within the spirit of the rules.

[Jerra]

Actually seeing as I've jumped up and down and shouted about our mileage the last two years I ought to confess ...

 

I've just done a very quick check on Canalplan and Worcester to Anderton and then to Bollington is 142 miles and 121 locks! That was our 2013 achievement compared to 711 miles and 548 locks in 2012 and 834 miles and 540 locks in 2011. Canalplan says we could have done it in 11 7 hour days

 

I think it very nicely proves the point though - it was bona fide navigation and totally within the rules and within the spirit of the rules.

And considerably further than the 20 to 30 miles often bandied about, as being reasonable.