SE Visitor Moorings winter arrangements

[Tuscan]

Was suprised whilst moored at Foxton that there were no signs showing the changes that were due to take place less than 2 days from today , could I stay more than 2 days without penalty or not.

 

By chance the CRT enforcement manager walked past (I recognised him from the workshops earlier this year) I asked him if the restrictions were being lifted he said they were but couldn't confirm whether the no return rule was being lifted or when the signs were going up. So he was about to enforce rules he did not know the details of..............!!!!!!

 

He may have recognised me and 30 mins later to be fair he came back and told me that he had made a call and that signs were going up shortly (when??) and that it would be 14 days but limited to 14 days in a calander month. Whilst 14 days in a month seems reasonable this is not reverting to the arrangements that existed previously.

 

The cheaper towpath winter moorings and I see several have taken these up (had a chat with a couple) are working as there is a good section of towpath just off the end of the Vm's but at the other end where the new winter moorings exist on the 48 Visitor Moorings also on the towpath rather hard standing with rings no one has bothered I wonder why.

[Leo No2]

Just been to look at the Stoke Bruerne signage and see they are still set to 'summer' limits. There's one day of October to go so I really cannot understand why the new 'winter' restrictions are not shown.

 

In my view the 'winter' timings should coincide with GMT (i.e. No daylight saving) and 'summer' should coincide with BST (i.e. Daylight saving). I think it could be that simple and signs could be devised to show that saving having to put stickers up and then take them off (assuming they have not already fallen/been taken off).

 

KISS seems to be the right approach - Keep It Simple S..........

Edited October 30, 2013 by Leo No2

[matty40s]

someone is sat in an office somewhere banging out emails....

 

you must not put the stickers up early - the hire companies have told us that it will cause the abuse of visitor moorings to start again

 

apparently it is school half term - remove the stickers already up quickly

 

n0, no, not a minute early I tell you, not even a second....

 

leaving all and sundry confused, disheartened and amazed at the co-ordination of the two toed sloth with rickets and arthiritis that is CRT management in action.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Hi ya,

I am hearing a lot about this 14 day rule,does it affect all inland waterway users or just liveaboards CCrs ect.

Can someone explain it quick n simple,,or ain't it quick n simple to explain.. can you be a ccr on the inland waterways by going 5mile up a stretch,turn around,then 5 mile back again .

This is a honest enquiry,as although living aboard for 25yrs now,I haven't experienced this rule everyone is talking about.

[alan_fincher]

I do find the story that the signs went up at Stoke Bruerne only to disappear again because they were "too early" rather surprising.

 

Is it seriously proposed to implement this by putting signs up each winter, then removing them at the end.

 

If the dates at which each arrangements apply is clearly shown, why does it matter if they are there before 1st November?

[Leo No2]

I do find the story that the signs went up at Stoke Bruerne only to disappear again because they were "too early" rather surprising.Is it seriously proposed to implement this by putting signs up each winter, then removing them at the end.If the dates at which each arrangements apply is clearly shown, why does it matter if they are there before 1st November?

Alan - it was definitely a 2nd hand story so I think it should be viewed in that light. I do agree that there should be one sign with easily understandable dates - BST/GMT occurs at very much the same time each year so, to my simple mind, it seems to be the ideal candidate and as for the Thursday before Easter - well enough said about trying to enforce that one - which Easter - Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox or Christian? It doesn't really need debate!

[Paul C]

Hi ya,

I am hearing a lot about this 14 day rule,does it affect all inland waterway users or just liveaboards CCrs ect.

Can someone explain it quick n simple,,or ain't it quick n simple to explain.. can you be a ccr on the inland waterways by going 5mile up a stretch,turn around,then 5 mile back again .

This is a honest enquiry,as although living aboard for 25yrs now,I haven't experienced this rule everyone is talking about.

 

There's 2 rules revolving around 14 days mooring

 

1. Unless otherwise signed, you can moor up to 14 days on the towpath.

2. CCers must move from place to place in a boda fide navigation, not spending more than 14 days in a place at a time. They can return to the same place though, indirectly or if at the limit of navigation. I've paraphrased it, see here for the actual guidelines from CRT: http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/633.pdf

[Jerra]

BST/GMT occurs at very much the same time each year

1st November occurs at exactly the same time each year, surely more accurate than "very much the same time"

 

(For those in doubt it is the day between 31st Oct and 2nd Nov)

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Thanks Paul C. Appreciate that.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[Tuscan]

2 different people in the bar tonight thought that the change in regulations started last week. Soon we will have signs that says see our website which will see see signs for details. What is the most surprising about this is that CRTs own staff had not been briefed , these are the guys who enforce the regulations. The local bar here at Foxton has definately seen a slow down in trade specifically now there is now no mooring in the basin which is where the canal time boats used to moor for the first/last nights.

[alan_fincher]

I have just looked at what is currently on the CRT website as a Winter Moorings Map for Stoke Bruerne

 

It doesn't seem to be what I would have expected at all.

 

To me it seems to show.....

 

1) Moorings above top lock to tunnel still at 2 days maximum, not relaxed to 14 days.

 

2) Only a short length of 14 day mooring in the "long pound". Unless I'm completely misreading their coding, it looks (unbelievably!) like most of the long pound is "No mooring" for the winter - i.e. actually declaring available moorings as "no mooring".

 

3) Below the bottom lock seems to be turned over to "Winter Moorings". I though the new arrangements for winter moorings largely did away with nominating lengths of normally "visitor moorings" for this purpose.

This seems to me to be completely out of step with what was agreed at the workshop - namely that it could all be 14 days in the winter, because congestion will never be a problem.

 

Can someone please look, and see if they agree my interpretation?

 

They really don't seem to want to have any boats making an extended stay at Stoke Bruerne in the winter, and seem to want to have the place largely continually standing empty or near empty.

 

Or have I got it wrong?

[Leo No2]

I have just looked at what is currently on the CRT website as a Winter Moorings Map for Stoke Bruerne

 

It doesn't seem to be what I would have expected at all.

 

To me it seems to show.....

 

1) Moorings above top lock to tunnel still at 2 days maximum, not relaxed to 14 days.

 

2) Only a short length of 14 day mooring in the "long pound". Unless I'm completely misreading their coding, it looks (unbelievably!) like most of the long pound is "No mooring" for the winter - i.e. actually declaring available moorings as "no mooring".

 

3) Below the bottom lock seems to be turned over to "Winter Moorings". I though the new arrangements for winter moorings largely did away with nominating lengths of normally "visitor moorings" for this purpose.

This seems to me to be completely out of step with what was agreed at the workshop - namely that it could all be 14 days in the winter, because congestion will never be a problem.

 

Can someone please look, and see if they agree my interpretation?

 

They really don't seem to want to have any boats making an extended stay at Stoke Bruerne in the winter, and seem to want to have the place largely continually standing empty or near empty.

 

Or have I got it wrong?

Alan it is very confusing. It is certainly not what I understood from talking to Jeff Wyatt would happen - also the wording on the map which says Maximum stay in area: Single Visit 14 days, Calendar Month 14 days. I also agree that it seems the long pound is showing No Mooring.

 

I have a Canal Partnership meeting at which Jeff Wyatt is going to be present where I am happy to bring this up if you wish (11-November) but perhaps a query (from you?) before then may resolve it but if not I am happy to raise the issue as it is very important to the partnership.

 

Stoke Bruerne has been busy (ish) this week but as it is half term that's to be expected but I should think the traffic will drop off significantly between now and Christmas.

[adam1uk]

Alan, your interpretation looks right. Like you, I can't believe the long pound can really be no mooring. And it also seems extraordinary that the moorings below the bottom lock would be winter permit holders only. It would make going for a winter weekend from our mooring to SB very difficult: you don't always want to do all the locks twice in a weekend. Still, my attitude to winter permit moorings (like the huge length at Crick, for example) is that if there's space, there's no reason not to use it.

Edited October 30, 2013 by adam1uk

[Tuscan]

This is weird I'm sure I checked the web site recently but didn't see anything. Looking at the SB map I agree there are even less mooring at SB , in days gone buy spending christmas and new year at SB was a good crack but it's not an option now. At Foxton I was wrongly advised it would appear that all the moorings down to the locks are for winter permits why not a mix as previously ? Now if I want to stay for a week over Christmas I have to go down towards Market Harborough and hope on down Or up the light and hope a couple of he allocated spaces are free or we have to wind and come back down the flight.

 

This is not going back to pre changes as was promised in the workshops. Strikes me this is all about stopping Continous cruisers camping on he visitor moorings rather than allowing genuine visitors to enjoy and spend money in the area.

[Jerra]

The local bar here at Foxton has definately seen a slow down in trade specifically now there is now no mooring in the basin which is where the canal time boats used to moor for the first/last nights.

Would it be a good idea for local businesses which can show an effect on their business to get in touch with CRT.

[Tuscan]

Would it be a good idea for local businesses which can show an effect on their business to get in touch with CRT.

In the case of Foxton they already have.

[jenlyn]

Would it be a good idea for local businesses which can show an effect on their business to get in touch with CRT.

they have at stoke bruerne as well.

[Jerra]

In the case of Foxton they already have.

Good all pressure helps

they have at stoke bruerne as well.

Good I some times think that CRT will take more notice of local non boaters and possibly the Chamber of Trade ( if they have one ) than they will of boaters.

[Tuscan]

 

 

In Foxtons case they have a big hire base Canaltime that comes out of Market Harborough they now just see no mooring signs In the basin (not realising that there are moorings further along in a direction they do not wish to travel) and go up the flight and tend not to stop. This effects the pub and the shop.

 

Some regulars that boated down most weekends now don't as 10 days isnt sufficient and patrol officers taking details of your boat (twice a day here) is big brother and intrusive so the fact is they now go somewhere else.

 

Those that have taken the Micky in the past had largely gone before the £25 penalty threat was introduced.

[MtB]

Good all pressure helps

Good I some times think that CRT will take more notice of local non boaters and possibly the Chamber of Trade ( if they have one ) than they will of boaters.

 

That's because the local non boaters and Chambers of Commerce speak with a unified voice and put forward a solid, coherent argument, I'd suggest...

 

MtB

[Leo No2]

It seems to have changed again this morning as there is now 14 day mooring in the long pound but still restricted (winter mooring permits) below lock 20 and between the Museum Green and the tunnel mouth (2 days).

 

See this link - http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/4734.pdf

 

Genuine mistake by CRT I expect.

[alan_fincher]

It seems to have changed again this morning as there is now 14 day mooring in the long pound but still restricted (winter mooring permits) below lock 20 and between the Museum Green and the tunnel mouth (2 days).

 

See this link - http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/4734.pdf

 

Genuine mistake by CRT I expect.

 

One hopes so, although I think most of us negotiating this at the workshops genuinely believed it would all get relaxed to 14 days.

 

Adam makes a very valid point that if everything below the lock flight is made over to (paid for) winter moorings, then there is no possibility of people boating up for a short stay at Stoke Bruerne from the South, unless they also work up and down the lock flight, which they may neither want to do, nor have the available time to do.

 

Seems I need to off and bone up on paid for winter moorings, because my initial understanding was that the new arrangements don't pinch whole stretches of visitor moorings for this purpose. (Although I do recall there may still be some option to book a reduced number of actual named locations).

 

If people can't do what Adam suggests some may choose to, I would have thought it could impact winter trade at the pubs, restaurants and museum?

[Leo No2]

One hopes so, although I think most of us negotiating this at the workshops genuinely believed it would all get relaxed to 14 days.

Adam makes a very valid point that if everything below the lock flight is made over to (paid for) winter moorings, then there is no possibility of people boating up for a short stay at Stoke Bruerne from the South, unless they also work up and down the lock flight, which they may neither want to do, nor have the available time to do.

 

Seems I need to off and bone up on paid for winter moorings, because my initial understanding was that the new arrangements don't pinch whole stretches of visitor moorings for this purpose. (Although I do recall there may still be some option to book a reduced number of actual named locations).

 

If people can't do what Adam suggests some may choose to, I would have thought it could impact winter trade at the pubs, restaurants and museum?

With you 100% on the moorings below lock 20 - this is something we should raise next Wednesday - I think it is 18:00 at Jury's Inn in Milton Keynes - is that correct still? I can only find the information in the minutes of a meeting and I suppose that the time/date/location could have changed by now.

[adam1uk]

Seems I need to off and bone up on paid for winter moorings, because my initial understanding was that the new arrangements don't pinch whole stretches of visitor moorings for this purpose. (Although I do recall there may still be some option to book a reduced number of actual named locations).

 

The General Towpath winter mooring permit doesn't all you to use visitor moorings, but a number of VMs have been designated as winter moorings (and these can be bought by people who aren't Continuous Cruisers -- unlike the General Towpath winter moorings). The list of VMs given over to winter moorings shows 100 metres below SB bottom lock (which I guess is all of it). I also notice that 160 mtres of visitor moorings at Cosgrove are similarly designated -- so that's apparently ruled out as an alternative destination for anyone who wants to use their boat in the winter,

[alan_fincher]

 

The General Towpath winter mooring permit doesn't all you to use visitor moorings, but a number of VMs have been designated as winter moorings (and these can be bought by people who aren't Continuous Cruisers -- unlike the General Towpath winter moorings). The list of VMs given over to winter moorings shows 100 metres below SB bottom lock (which I guess is all of it). I also notice that 160 mtres of visitor moorings at Cosgrove are similarly designated -- so that's apparently ruled out as an alternative destination for anyone who wants to use their boat in the winter,

 

This of course, I guess could depend on whether they find takers to fill them up at whatever rate they are charging.

 

Do you know if the whole lengths have been provisionally allocated as "paid for" winter moorings in previous years, please?

 

Might make it a bit harder to argue against if there is already a precedent.