An Open Letter To Boat Sellers

[Neil2]

This is going to come across as a bit of a rant, but I do mean to be constructive.

 

We (my wife and I) have a certain amount of money burning a hole at the moment which has been earmarked for another narrowboat. So I have spent a lot of time trawling the internet and looking at "adverts", with a fairly open mind as to size, cost, layout, etc. - I know that you can find a boat that ticks all the boxes but still doesn't feel right, so I may end up with something cheap that needs work, or it might be something really nice if I think it's worth the money.

 

The list below is intended as a means of venting my frustration at the poor state of boat advert presentation, but also in the hope that someone might take notice. It applies to most of the brokers as well, with one or two rare exceptions.

 

1) If you are going to present photographs on the internet, please could they be the right way up?

 

2) Avoid using subjective descriptions such as "absolute bargain" etc. You may feel your boat is "utterly charming" or "a real head turner" but better to produce some decent pictures so I can make up my own mind.

 

3) The fact that your boat has been "valued at £x,000" or whatever by the local boatyard is meaningless, unless of course they offered to buy it.

 

4) Is it too much to ask for a picture of the engine bay?? It appears so.

 

5) Why go to a lot of trouble giving a detailed description of the interior, which often doesn't make sense, when a layout plan (to scale) would be so much better?

 

6) I don't know why, but a picture of the boat actually cruising draws my interest much more than the almost universal stationary shots. And whilst on the subject, I like to see the whole of the boat in the external picture.

 

7) Do make a point of listing any interesting features eg twin alternators, Aquadrive, battery management system.

 

8) Describe where the boat has been cruised - it might sound pointless but I'd like to know if she's been along the tidal Trent, or done the Ribble link, but in any case it would appeal to me if the boat has actually been used rather than just sat on her mooring for years.

 

9) If you are selling privately and use an email address for enquiries, it might be an idea to check for messages occasionally.

 

10) If you have sold the boat, could you please amend the advert accordingly or remove it from the listings?

 

Does anyone else share my exasperation and/or want to add to the list?

[AndrewIC]

Do the washing up, clean out the stove, and empty the bog!

[Machpoint005]

This is all good constructive criticism but it does bear out the often-repeated advice that a little effort in making an advert appealing generally results in a quicker sale. That and a good product at the right price -- or a cheap product at a bargain price!

 

If a seller can't be arsed to look at his/her email, the chances are they couldn't be arsed to look after a boat properly either, so don't waste your time!

[Capt.Golightly]

Remove your own stuff before taking the picture as its very difficult see how a space would work in your life when its already full of someone elses'.

I would probably have a full survey done by a very reputable person and be willing to disclose it to the purchaser hence my price would be my price but at least they could make a clear judgement on whether they were willing to pay it or not. I reckon more people would commit at least to the journey to see it on that basis and they could still have a new survey if they wished. I realise that surveys rapidly lose their validity but I would be hoping for a reasonably quick sale on the basis of this very much clearer and purchaser friendly approach. But that wouldn't appeal to those who may wish to sell holes held together by pieces of boat of course.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Capt.Golightly

[Wanted]

Or, use all of the above to secure a hefty discount..

[Ray T]

A very sensible letter IMHO.

[DustyDave]

Don't completely discount the boat because of lack of info. I tried to view my boat a month or two before I actually managed to view it. Turned out to be the boat for me. You will know when the right boat finds you. Everything else is good to see but just part of the road to the right one.

 

Dave

[MtB]

Maybe most people don't actually want to sell their boat.

 

 

MtB

[Sunsoup]

Photos don,t always add up to much. When I was looking I once drove over 100 miles to see the perfect boat "you'll love it " the vender/Pratt informed me. When I got there the photos had clearly been taken about 3 years previous, the toilet was dirty, so was the fridge and work tops,the stove had gone rusty. He lied on the advert saying that it had a recent BSC which it hadn't. If he wasn't such a big bloke (and me being a bigger cowered ) I'd have punched him for wasting my time. Still we and learn hey.

[Henhouse]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does anyone else share my exasperation and/or want to add to the list?

 

I think a lot of Brokers could do much to improve their websites.

 

I look at lots regularly, and some are so poor that I move on without bothering to see what they have.

 

The better websites do seem to have better boats, so maybe sellers of quality boats have realised this.

 

Whilst I may not be planning on buying in the immediate future, looking at hundreds of boats does help to formulate ideas on what I would eventually like to have.

 

 

The best sites I have found so far are: ( in no particular order) ABNB, Rugby Boat Sales, and Great Haywood Boat Sales.

 

All are easy to navigate with lots of info, and quality pictures.

[MtB]

Photos don,t always add up to much. When I was looking I once drove over 100 miles to see the perfect boat "you'll love it " the vender/Pratt informed me. When I got there the photos had clearly been taken about 3 years previous, the toilet was dirty, so was the fridge and work tops,the stove had gone rusty. He lied on the advert saying that it had a recent BSC which it hadn't. If he wasn't such a big bloke (and me being a bigger cowered ) I'd have punched him for wasting my time. Still we and learn hey.

 

I used to get this when I bought/sold cars quite often. There is a school of thought out there that you should write in an advert whatever it takes to make the punters come over and take a look, even if that includes outright lies, e.g. the ubiquitous "drives superb".

 

So frustrating as a buyer to read the advert, ring to confirm all the details then drive 50 or 100 miles, with a mate the drive the new car back, only to find the seller was just talking sh!t.

 

I've not had this too much with boats yet, but it looks as though it's starting.

 

 

MtB

[Richard10002]

Sometimes a poorly advertised and marketed boat can prove to be a bargain.

 

I drove further than my self imposed distance, to see a very poorly advertised boat, and couldn't get it bought at the asking price fast enough.

 

I probably got lucky because nobody else raced to view the boat.

[Neil2]

 

I used to get this when I bought/sold cars quite often. There is a school of thought out there that you should write in an advert whatever it takes to make the punters come over and take a look, even if that includes outright lies, e.g. the ubiquitous "drives superb".

 

So frustrating as a buyer to read the advert, ring to confirm all the details then drive 50 or 100 miles, with a mate the drive the new car back, only to find the seller was just talking sh!t.

 

I've not had this too much with boats yet, but it looks as though it's starting.

 

 

MtB

You can see what folk are thinking, they look at estate agents ads and used car ads and think the same applies. What they forget is that no-one needs a boat, so people like me are just put right off when I read "excellent value" and "much admired" and move on to the next advert.

 

As for brokers - I was very interested in a particular boat last week and rang the broker concerned with a few questions and asked if they could photograph the engine bay and email it to me. I explained that the boat was a long distance away and I wanted as much information as possible before I spent a lot of money on travelling down to view it. I am still waiting. I don't expect every broker to know the fine details of every boat they have for sale, but when perfectly reasonable requests are ignored well, you have to wonder how serious they are. I wonder how many brokers just offer the service as an "add on" to their general marina functions and don't really do their customers justice.

[MtB]

You can see what folk are thinking, they look at estate agents ads and used car ads and think the same applies. What they forget is that no-one needs a boat, so people like me are just put right off when I read "excellent value" and "much admired" and move on to the next advert.

 

As for brokers - I was very interested in a particular boat last week and rang the broker concerned with a few questions and asked if they could photograph the engine bay and email it to me. I explained that the boat was a long distance away and I wanted as much information as possible before I spent a lot of money on travelling down to view it. I am still waiting. I don't expect every broker to know the fine details of every boat they have for sale, but when perfectly reasonable requests are ignored well, you have to wonder how serious they are. I wonder how many brokers just offer the service as an "add on" to their general marina functions and don't really do their customers justice.

 

Yes terribly frustrating I can imagine, but think about it. The reason they have not sent you photos of the engine bay is they know it will put you off visiting.

 

And do you WANT to visit if the engine bay is a mess? Read between the lines...

 

 

MtB

[matty40s]

Not necessarily, the boat may not actually be at the brokerage but somewhere else around the network, and owner cant get there quuckly to take a piccy to send to the broker.

[Dyad]

I agree with the OP on the pics being the right way round, in focus too would be nice.

[Dave_P]

You can see what folk are thinking, they look at estate agents ads and used car ads and think the same applies. What they forget is that no-one needs a boat,

I need a boat! Where else am I supposed to live? A house? Don't be silly!

[larryjc]

We went through this in March. I made a 'short' list out from Apollo Dick and brokerage sites and we jumped in the car and saw nothing but rubbish for days. One boat in particular seemed to tick all the boxes but when we saw the SH**t heap it was the vendor mentioned that yes the photos were 4 years old. In the end we were lucky and found one that ticked all the boxes. But if/when we pass her on - unlike the brokerage we got her from I will list ALL her equipment and history - she was virtually rebuilt 6 years ago with a new engine, generator, solar panels, hydraulic bow thruster, AGM batteries, washing machine, satellite system etc - all barely mentioned in the spec. In fact we had to work most of it out for ourselves once we realised what we were looking at and talking to the previous owner. The brokerage told us a pack of lies about how many boats they had recently sold and then admitted that we were the only one that actually sold that month - frankly I'm not surprised.

 

Quick edit - I will also get her surveyed before I sell. That would have been a major point in any boat' favour when I was looking - would you buy a car without an MOT?????

Edited July 23, 2013 by larryjc

[Poster girl]

Having recently toured brokerages looking for boats we were astounded at the differences we found in approach by the brokers and indeed the boat owners. We visited all the main brokerages and a few smaller ones, we had a maximum budget and decided to look at everything available and what a difference there was however the best all round boat that we saw remains unsold because it's in a small brokerage who don't appear to be marketing it anywhere other than on their website which you would only look at if you knew of the marina. We incidentally didn't buy it because for a family of four it was a bit small, it had been beautifully cared for and needed nothing doing to it, obviously it would still need a survey but given the lovely paint work and the condition of the hull I would assume there probably wouldn't be any issues!

[junior]

This is going to come across as a bit of a rant, but I do mean to be constructive.

 

We (my wife and I) have a certain amount of money burning a hole at the moment which has been earmarked for another narrowboat. So I have spent a lot of time trawling the internet and looking at "adverts", with a fairly open mind as to size, cost, layout, etc. - I know that you can find a boat that ticks all the boxes but still doesn't feel right, so I may end up with something cheap that needs work, or it might be something really nice if I think it's worth the money.

 

The list below is intended as a means of venting my frustration at the poor state of boat advert presentation, but also in the hope that someone might take notice. It applies to most of the brokers as well, with one or two rare exceptions.

 

1) If you are going to present photographs on the internet, please could they be the right way up?

 

2) Avoid using subjective descriptions such as "absolute bargain" etc. You may feel your boat is "utterly charming" or "a real head turner" but better to produce some decent pictures so I can make up my own mind.

 

3) The fact that your boat has been "valued at £x,000" or whatever by the local boatyard is meaningless, unless of course they offered to buy it.

 

4) Is it too much to ask for a picture of the engine bay?? It appears so.

 

5) Why go to a lot of trouble giving a detailed description of the interior, which often doesn't make sense, when a layout plan (to scale) would be so much better?

 

6) I don't know why, but a picture of the boat actually cruising draws my interest much more than the almost universal stationary shots. And whilst on the subject, I like to see the whole of the boat in the external picture.

 

7) Do make a point of listing any interesting features eg twin alternators, Aquadrive, battery management system.

 

8) Describe where the boat has been cruised - it might sound pointless but I'd like to know if she's been along the tidal Trent, or done the Ribble link, but in any case it would appeal to me if the boat has actually been used rather than just sat on her mooring for years.

 

9) If you are selling privately and use an email address for enquiries, it might be an idea to check for messages occasionally.

 

10) If you have sold the boat, could you please amend the advert accordingly or remove it from the listings?

 

Does anyone else share my exasperation and/or want to add to the list?

1 and 10 have almost driven me insane over the last few months.

 

I think I have viewed the adverts for just about every Trad stern boat that is for sale at the moment and I'm amazed by the ammount of sideways photos ive seen. Except I haven't as I skip onto the next on

With regards to brokers, I've visited quite a few, and like the vendor I was thoroughly pleased with ABNB and less so with Venitian Marina. I also went to Rugby boats only to find out that a forum member had just that second handed a cheque over for the boat I'd travelled to see. The broker however was very helpful and I would be happy to buy from them.

Edited July 23, 2013 by junior

[Neil2]

1 and 10 have almost driven me insane over the last few months.

 

I think I have viewed the adverts for just about every Trad stern boat that is for sale at the moment and I'm amazed by the ammount of sideways photos ive seen. Except I haven't as I skip onto the next on

With regards to brokers, I've visited quite a few, and like the vendor I was thoroughly pleased with ABNB and less so with Venitian Marina. I also went to Rugby boats only to find out that a forum member had just that second handed a cheque over for the boat I'd travelled to see. The broker however was very helpful and I would be happy to buy from them.

What baffles me about brokers is ABNB shows how it should be done (except I'd still like to see pictures of the engine), so why don't other brokers do the same? I know someone will say well ABNB are dealing with boats at the higher end of the market, but I really don't see why that should make any difference.

[comfortably numb]

We found Rugby Boats and ABNB the best, not just with their adverts on the internet (well presented and informative as has been said), but when we viewed boats they took the trouble to answer questions and show us around the boats, whereas all the others were just 'here's the keys go and take a look'. When we returned to the office some were helpful/knowledgeable, but most hadn't a clue or weren't interested. We ended up buying from Braunston who were quite good, but if ever we're in the market again we would try Rugby boats and ABNB first.

[Richard10002]

We ended up buying from Braunston who were quite good, but if ever we're in the market again we would try Rugby boats and ABNB first.

In the property market Sellers choose the agent they like, but buyers buy houses with little care as to who is selling it. The Narrowboat market is probably similar.