2 near misses today

[mayalld]

This attitude of "its my lock, don't touch it unless I give you permission" is a fairly new and unfortunate attitude. 20 years ago everybody pitched in by default, even 10 years ago it wasn't too bad, but now so many people are so precious that one finds it easier just to stay with one's boat until the antics are complete. A great shame and sad indictment of our current self-obsessed society.

 

Very occasionally someone might "do the wrong thing" but in your average lock it really doesn't matter. Yes, if its a large deep or otherwise scary lock, our PND* has to pay attention to what anyone else might be doing but its not hard. I think some people need to "get over themselves" and stop being so scared (under-confidence is in part behind this).

 

*person not driving.

 

You may think it unfortunate, but our experience is that the overwhelming majority of people who impose their assistance don't actually know what they are doing (the fact that they lack the courtesy to ask rather proves that).

 

Indeed, I would go so far as to say that most "help" isn't about helping the boat that is in the lock. Rather it is about helping themselves by getting you out of the way rapidly.

 

"Helpers" always seem to "help" by winding a paddle to start the lock filling or emptying as rapidly as possible at the earliest opportunity, despite this being the part of the operation that is most dependent on communication with the steerer. Seldom have I been approached with "We'll shut the gates if you want to go up to the other end"

 

Indeed, not so long ago, we were coming up Bosley (1 steering and 1 locking). As Bev went into the lock two from the boat behind walked past me without a word (including one who jumped over the open bottom gates to cross the tail bridge) and plonked their windlasses on the top paddles, seemingly oblivious to the fact that this wasn't even going to speed things up, because there was still only going to be one of me closing the bottom gates.

 

They were asked (nicely) to remove their windlasses, because from the moment that they assumed the right to intermeddle in the working of the lock without asking their ability to co-operate in the operation of the lock became suspect.

[nicknorman]

Well to both Bazza and Dave, all I can say is that for some reason we don't encounter these people. Why is that?

 

And as to the hysteria about when and how much to open paddles, in general its our practice to open the paddles as quickly as possible straight away once the gates are closed. Certainly when going downhill and usually when going uphill unless the lock design has an unusually strong forward pull (some on the T&M and some other deep ones), or Hatton type locks where you really need to open same-side paddle first if going up alone. Gate paddles can normally be opened straight away because we keep the boat well back and in general they all have a plate over them which stops the flow of water coming straight into the lock. There are a few variations in some specific locks but in general, perhaps its because we know how to operate our boat expeditiously, are not frightened of locks nor a bit of bumping against the sides, that we are not phased by people helping without having to ask for the minutia of exactly how many clicks per minute the paddle can be opened without scaring the steerer.

 

Those who timidly open paddles one click at a time in general do so because they don't really know what they are doing.

 

Indeed, not so long ago, we were coming up Bosley (1 steering and 1 locking). As Bev went into the lock two from the boat behind walked past me without a word (including one who jumped over the open bottom gates to cross the tail bridge) and plonked their windlasses on the top paddles, seemingly oblivious to the fact that this wasn't even going to speed things up, because there was still only going to be one of me closing the bottom gates.

 

They were asked (nicely) to remove their windlasses, because from the moment that they assumed the right to intermeddle in the working of the lock without asking their ability to co-operate in the operation of the lock became suspect.

My god, you mean they actually put their windlasses on the paddle spindles without begging permission? OUTRAGEOUS.

 

Or to put it another way, what a miserable control freak you are! I bet your misses has to ask permission before turning on the taps to run your bath!

Edited July 15, 2013 by nicknorman

[Chris Pink]

My god, you mean they actually put their windlasses on the paddle spindles without begging permission? OUTRAGEOUS.

 

Or to put it another way, what a miserable control freak you are!

 

I think, I might be wrong, this is the same Dave Mayall that calls me arrogant.

 

You have to laugh.

 

I haven't in many a year encountered (I am happy not to able to say 'met') someone with such little self-awareness as mayalld.

[smileypete]

Don't know about 20 years ago but I went on a canal holiday 30 years ago a 12-13 year old kid.

 

It was blissfully quiet, there were very few boats around, and istr we did pretty much all the locking ourselves - me, mate from school, his sister and friend (sometimes) and father, and I think there was a flight or two in there.

 

Those boats that were around weren't in a rush to get anywhere and were all friendly and unfailingly polite.

Edited July 15, 2013 by smileypete

[bizzard]

Try whacking open the top paddles fast going up through Stanstead lock (river Lea) and it will most likely smash your boat up. Going up Pickets lock on the Lea is nearly as fierce. You should always go easy with the lock paddles ground, gate or both going uphill if your not familiar with a lock especially if single handed.

[nicknorman]

Try whacking open the top paddles fast going up through Stanstead lock (river Lea) and it will most likely smash your boat up. Going up Pickets lock on the Lea is nearly as fierce. You should always go easy with the lock paddles ground, gate or both going uphill if your not familiar with a lock especially if single handed.

Yes, as I said there are of course exceptions but once you have been around a bit in the main part of the system, you know that standard locks are all much the same, especially on the same canal, unless they are for example exceptionally deep.

[mayalld]

My god, you mean they actually put their windlasses on the paddle spindles without begging permission? OUTRAGEOUS.

 

Or to put it another way, what a miserable control freak you are! I bet your misses has to ask permission before turning on the taps to run your bath!

 

Ah, there we go!

 

Just because I dare to say that my boat is my boat, rather than a plaything for all and sundry, the name calling starts.

 

In my experience, people who put the windlass on like that are (almost) always intent upon opening the paddle as fast as possible and as soon as possible, without the slightest regard for what the steerer wants done.

 

Whilst YOU may be happy to have that done to you, the monumental arrogance of resorting to name calling because I don't want it done to me beggars belief.

Yes, as I said there are of course exceptions but once you have been around a bit in the main part of the system, you know that standard locks are all much the same, especially on the same canal, unless they are for example exceptionally deep.

 

Yes there are exceptions, and the kind of people who don't know that it is polite to ASK are often the exact same people who haven't got a clue whether a lock is fierce or not.

[nicknorman]

Ah, there we go!

 

Just because I dare to say that my boat is my boat, rather than a plaything for all and sundry, the name calling starts.

 

In my experience, people who put the windlass on like that are (almost) always intent upon opening the paddle as fast as possible and as soon as possible, without the slightest regard for what the steerer wants done.

 

Whilst YOU may be happy to have that done to you, the monumental arrogance of resorting to name calling because I don't want it done to me beggars belief.

If you said "they whacked the paddles up before I could blink" I might have had a tiny bit of sympathy, but since they didn't do anything to the lock, I think you were rude and miserable to tell them to take them off. You could just as effectively asked them not to wind until getting acknowledgment from the steerer etc, but instead you chose to ram the point that this was YOUR LOCK down their throats.

 

I would have done the same as they did in preparation for helping, and would write you off as a grumpy insecure control freak if you had made me take the windlass off - just because you could. I would leave the lock hoping never to meet you again.

[mayalld]

If you said "they whacked the paddles up before I could blink" I might have had a tiny bit of sympathy, but since they didn't do anything to the lock, I think you were rude and miserable to tell them to take them off. You could just as effectively asked them not to wind until getting acknowledgment from the steerer etc, but instead you chose to ram the point that this was YOUR LOCK down their throats.

 

I would have done the same as they did in preparation for helping, and would write you off as a grumpy insecure control freak if you had made me take the windlass off - just because you could. I would leave the lock hoping never to meet you again.

 

And yet more of the name calling, yet you imagine that I am the one who has a problem.

 

Yes, I could have waited until they whacked the paddles up, then whinged after the event, but why would I do that? Is it not better to take preventative action such that we don't have the boat tossed about in the lock.

 

I'm not ramming the point about this being my lock down anybody's throat. I am simply applying my experience that tells me that the overwhelming majority of people who walk past without a word and place their windlasses on the spindles are intent on throwing paddles open. They had ample opportunity to speak as they passed me at the bottom gates. Had they actually wanted to HELP (as opposed to shaving 5 seconds off the time through the lock), one of them would have stayed at the tail and helped with the gates. If they had really wanted to help, they would BOTH have stayed there "we'll close up here if you want to get to the top paddles".

 

As a result of their actions, I have had to walk from the bottom gates, ask them to take their windlasses off, and walk back to the bottom gates to close them.

 

I note that you would leave the lock hoping never to meet me again. As you appear to be utterly wedded to your absolute right to interfere with the operation of locks, this is probably a good thing.

[nicknorman]

I note that you would leave the lock hoping never to meet me again. As you appear to be utterly wedded to your absolute right to interfere with the operation of locks, this is probably a good thing.

We'll obviously have to agree to disagree on this one or go through hours of pointless bickering, however my original point was that attitudes such as yours were unheard of 20 years ago. That they are becoming more prevalent is in my view, a great shame.

Edited July 15, 2013 by nicknorman

[system 4-50]

I am always happy to have total strangers run my bath taps, isn't everyone?

[bizzard]

When I'm traveling solo I'm very wary of the often impatient clever dick who suddenly appears brandishing their windlass like a six gun, twice on the Lea I've had idiots whacking a top paddle open just as I've been climbing up the lock ladder with both rope and windlass in hand and my boats shot away from under me, and the bottom gates were still OPEN!!! beat that. They should only be allowed to own rubber windlasses that can't turn the spindle. If a lady is with them then these characters are likely to really show off and can then cause serious mayhem even loss of life.

Edited July 15, 2013 by bizzard

[kris88]

i do like how the threads meander on this forum

 

(ChrisT,,,,this was the lock just before I passed you...so if I looked a little rattled...terribly sorry

 

dont worry dean i understand, theres a few more locks like that youll hang up on if your not watching. ill catch you on the way back or maybe in manchester if you go the otherway home

 

regards kris

[nb Innisfree]

When going uphill my missus likes to open the top paddles progressively until she's happy to open them fully. Woe betide anyone who wants to overrule her plus she has 100% agreement and backup from me, forcefully if necessary.

[RickH]

 

I have a Acme Thunderer (football referee whistle) on a lanyard round my neck when boating. We us a short blast on the whistle to attract attention. A longgggg blast means urgent attention.

Also the whistle of choice on the Titanic , be warned .

I will always help others through a lock , but stand , windless in hand , waiting for instruction , certainly wouldn't start winding until I knew the boats Skipper was ready .

[mark99]

This attitude of "its my lock, don't touch it unless I give you permission" is a fairly new and unfortunate attitude. 20 years ago everybody pitched in by default, even 10 years ago it wasn't too bad, but now so many people are so precious that one finds it easier just to stay with one's boat until the antics are complete. A great shame and sad indictment of our current self-obsessed society.

 

Very occasionally someone might "do the wrong thing" but in your average lock it really doesn't matter. Yes, if its a large deep or otherwise scary lock, our PND* has to pay attention to what anyone else might be doing but its not hard. I think some people need to "get over themselves" and stop being so scared (under-confidence is in part behind this).

 

*person not driving.

 

 

Perhaps NN in your eagerness to take the contrary position, you have left a gaping hole in your argument. You defend the right for some-one to step in and meddle without asking or acknowledging or even communicating (albeit out of ignorance and thinking they are helping) and think it's the person in charge of the boat that's at fault.

[DeanS]

Amazingly, I have just had help from a family who had only been boating for 2 hours. I had NO PROBLEM them helping, because guess what.....they ASKED FIRST...and didnt start to put a windlass on anything until I gave them the go ahead. My original post made the point that my boat nearly sank, because my attention was pulled off it, because some no-all was trying to tell my wife she should do it differently.

 

 

and Nick...I dont often say this on the forum, but you really are talking hogwash

 

I think that means I'm agree-ing with Dave....LOL

[mark99]

Whilst you are here Dean - can you go to your thread about your gearbox issue and answer the question in there?

 

Thanks

[GUMPY]

We'll obviously have to agree to disagree on this one or go through hours of pointless bickering, however my original point was that attitudes such as yours were unheard of 20 years ago. That they are becoming more prevalent is in my view, a great shame.

Twenty years ago there were not so many numpties about that thought they knew it all but know nothing.

 

NN that is not aimed at you just the general canal folk

[mayalld]

Amazingly, I have just had help from a family who had only been boating for 2 hours. I had NO PROBLEM them helping, because guess what.....they ASKED FIRST...and didnt start to put a windlass on anything until I gave them the go ahead. My original post made the point that my boat nearly sank, because my attention was pulled off it, because some no-all was trying to tell my wife she should do it differently.

 

 

and Nick...I dont often say this on the forum, but you really are talking hogwash

 

I think that means I'm agree-ing with Dave....LOL

It happens to most people eventually

[nicknorman]

Perhaps NN in your eagerness to take the contrary position, you have left a gaping hole in your argument. You defend the right for some-one to step in and meddle without asking or acknowledging or even communicating (albeit out of ignorance and thinking they are helping) and think it's the person in charge of the boat that's at fault.

 

I don't defend the right, I just think its a non-event not requiring annoyance on the part of the receiver. Unless you are an insecure control freak that is.

?..certainly wouldn't start winding until I knew the boats Skipper was ready .

So the skipper (driver, I prefer) drives into a lock. The gates close. What does he think might happen next? Will he be surprised to find the paddles being opened . Gosh, what a shock, that never happened before. If he is not ready, well he should be. If he is obviously not ready, eg gone below for a crap, looking worried and keying the engine etc, I would of course notice and not start winding.

 

Its really not that difficult unless you are determined to make a meal of it!

 

Edited to mention that in the real world, the "skipper" is probably not the driver - he has a man to do that! He is the one with overall situational awareness. But unless you are very insecure, a canal boat doesn't need a skipper.

Edited July 15, 2013 by nicknorman

[Paul C]

Problem: people open paddles before you ask them to.

Solution: position the boat at the front of the lock in the essence of time, before the gate(s) are closed behind you

 

Problem: people open gate paddles too soon

Solution: keep the front doors closed/locked when doing locks (uphill)

[nicknorman]

Twenty years ago there were not so many numpties about that thought they knew it all but know nothing.

But I was around 20 yrs ago.... Hmmm, what could that mean?

[Chris Pink]

Problem: people open paddles before you ask them to.

Solution: position the boat at the front of the lock in the essence of time, before the gate(s) are closed behind you

 

Problem: people open gate paddles too soon

Solution: keep the front doors closed/locked when doing locks (uphill)

 

That's the way most people lock who just want to get through the lock. It's no great deal, get in gates shut, paddles open, job done.

 

What you are missing is that for Dave Mayall this is an opportunity for him to show his importance and authority.

He doesn't get much chance, poor chap.

While he's in the lock nobody can do anything about it so he's going to take his time ad sod everyone else.

[nicknorman]

Problem: people open paddles before you ask them to.

Solution: position the boat at the front of the lock in the essence of time, before the gate(s) are closed behind you

 

Problem: people open gate paddles too soon

Solution: keep the front doors closed/locked when doing locks (uphill)

It depends on the length of your boat. Our's is 59' and we find it best to stay at the back of the lock. By keeping within a few feet of the bottom gate, extreme forward suction is avoided and there is no problem with gate paddles straight away. Its also quicker because there is no delay whilst PD* edges forward, not quite sure of where the bow is but determined not to bump. Boats much over 60' I think are better going up to the top gate.

 

That is going uphill of course. Downhill what is there to think about except staying awake to keep off the cill (sic)?

 

*Person Driving

While he's in the lock nobody can do anything about it

One could try flushing him out by opening all top paddles once bottom gates are open. That would give him something to squeak about!

 

and Nick...I dont often say this on the forum, but you really are talking hogwash

 

Don't worry Dean old chap, once you have the first few thousand locks under your belt you will learn to relax, and realise its all quite easy and not requiring the planning and attention of a space shuttle launch.

 

By the way, I have to say when I first saw this thread I presumed that LSW had been eating garlic or maybe a dose of the wind. When I put my glasses on I realised it said misses, not missus.

Edited July 15, 2013 by nicknorman