Canal Driving Licence - Maybe its needed...

[Doodlebug]

Bit of a rant...

 

Although ive always thought it would be a bit annoying to have a canal driving licence, after what i've witnessed today I think it might be a good idea.

 

I dont know what 'club' it was, but there was an organised passage of narrowboats who belong to this club who were heading down to the river lee today. Not one of them knew what they were doing.

 

Almost all of them left paddles up, lock gates open, etc

 

I was passed on the wrong side twice.

 

And the point I got really annoyed was when going waiting for a lock, a large boat came along to go in the lock beside me, then some cruiser style boat came through and overtook this other boat, and drive straight into the lock. I pointed out the other boat was already waiting, and that if they went behind me, all three of us would fit. (We are a 23ft narrowboat, they were about 26ft and the other boat was about 40)

 

They said that the other boat would fit fine behind us, so stayed beside us, and the other boat came in behind and only just fitted. They closed the lock, and I noticed they were right over the cill. I walked over to point this out, and they had no idea what a cill was. I told them they needed to swap sides. As I said this and the last gate was being closed, about 10 canoeists turned up and came straight in the lock.

 

So now everyone was crammed in the lock and the long boat behind us was over the cill. They said they could push forward, and drove forward squashing our boat up against the lock gates. Almost breaking things off the back of our boat.

 

Anyway, they then drained the lock and then realised we were all stuck, because the gates now wouldn't open.

 

Quite why the canoes couldn't just get out and walk down the lock I dont know.

 

Anyway, eventually, they got one gate open, allowing the cruiser out and allowing the other gate to open.

 

They all then drove off leaving me on my own to close both gates.

 

If people are going to use the canals they need an understanding of how to use the canals.

 

I say bring in a canal driving licence.

 

And not one of them said hello.

 

Rant over

 

 

[Guest]

I symapathise with you, and have often pondered over the same idea, but to be honest I doubt if a licence would make a great deal of difference. You only need to watch the clowns who drive cars and other vehicles like maniacs, presumably having passed the driving test. Sadly a licence only proves that one was fit to drive/navigate on the day, and seemingly many leave their brains at home after passing the test.

[Doodlebug]

Very true. Part of me wishes I hadn't pointed out the cill just so they learn the hard way. Will teach them for not saying hello!

[Richard West]

While I fully sympathise with the OP and his bad experience, a licence requirement would surely kill the hire trade. And what would you do with all the present owners who failed the test?

[J R]

Replying to post 1 by the OP, I, hopefully would not allowed that situation to evolve as it seems clar from the post that there could have been a danger to people and their boats. Find it strange that an experienced boater, imo, would feel comfortable in that situation.

 

Personnaly will never let a lock be filled or emptied when some other boat is in there unless I am completely happy that we all get out alive. Sometimes causes a bit of friction, but to date there has not been any body count.

 

As for cutting in against the queue for the lock, usually done by hire boats who don't know the protocal, had this a number of times, usually at Bradford on Avon lock, both sides. A polite but firm reminder normally works.

 

Locks is dangerous things. Experienced boaters should take leadership and control and advise those who may need it.

[Doodlebug]

I see what you mean about hire boats.

 

I did stop them, but it was still a stupid situation. Also there were so many on the boat they were working the lock too fast to stop them.

 

I stopped them sinking on the cill, I hadn't foreseen that we would all get stuck as a result, but to be fair, its the first time i've come across boaters who have absolutely no idea what they are doing.

 

I think I just assumed that people who own narrowboats know what they are doing. Lesson learnt though.

[Grace and Favour]

While I fully sympathise with the OP and his bad experience, a licence requirement would surely kill the hire trade. And what would you do with all the present owners who failed the test?

Couldn't they just stay on the K&A?

 

 

 

(Tongue-in-cheek smiley inserted here)

[ditchcrawler]

Bit of a rant...

 

Although ive always thought it would be a bit annoying to have a canal driving licence, after what i've witnessed today I think it might be a good idea.

 

I dont know what 'club' it was, but there was an organised passage of narrowboats who belong to this club who were heading down to the river lee today. Not one of them knew what they were doing.

 

Almost all of them left paddles up, lock gates open, etc

 

I was passed on the wrong side twice.

 

And the point I got really annoyed was when going waiting for a lock, a large boat came along to go in the lock beside me, then some cruiser style boat came through and overtook this other boat, and drive straight into the lock. I pointed out the other boat was already waiting, and that if they went behind me, all three of us would fit. (We are a 23ft narrowboat, they were about 26ft and the other boat was about 40)

 

They said that the other boat would fit fine behind us, so stayed beside us, and the other boat came in behind and only just fitted. They closed the lock, and I noticed they were right over the cill. I walked over to point this out, and they had no idea what a cill was. I told them they needed to swap sides. As I said this and the last gate was being closed, about 10 canoeists turned up and came straight in the lock.

 

So now everyone was crammed in the lock and the long boat behind us was over the cill. They said they could push forward, and drove forward squashing our boat up against the lock gates. Almost breaking things off the back of our boat.

 

Anyway, they then drained the lock and then realised we were all stuck, because the gates now wouldn't open.

 

Quite why the canoes couldn't just get out and walk down the lock I dont know.

 

Anyway, eventually, they got one gate open, allowing the cruiser out and allowing the other gate to open.

 

They all then drove off leaving me on my own to close both gates.

 

If people are going to use the canals they need an understanding of how to use the canals.

 

I say bring in a canal driving licence.

 

And not one of them said hello.

 

Rant over

I was in a carpark in Bicester yesterday driving round the top end looking for a space, I stopped to let a pedestrian cross, well they were out in front of me and a car overtook me on my left. I am sure he had passed a test but he was still a pillock IMO

[eightpot]

If I find I'm in the company of a numpty boater, I usually tie up, let them cruise on and give them half an hour headway. I might have to close paddles or gates they've subsequently left open when I do continue on, but a bit of "chilling" time works wonders.

[Alanji]

Came across the Pontcysylite aqueduct Sunday, moored on bridge mooring to lift the Fron bridge (single handing), in process of tying centre rope, hire boat straight past me - I thought for a minute he thought he could get under the bridge! Emergency full astern, crew of two off, lift the bridge, ask if I am coming through, crew onboard and off they go. At least I had the bridge lifted for me - every cloud has a silver lining!

[fudd]

There was talk of everyone having a driving license on the rivers. Bad idea and we shouldn't even talk about it on here. It wouldn't prove you could drive, it's really only a means of revenue and its something 'they' can take away. Another form of control.

[Leo No2]

What a licence won't do is bestow common sense. That's what needed and sadly common sense is not very common - I'll bet we've all done something that we look back on with a little bit of shame and embarrassment! Better briefing of hire boat crews is, in my opinion, all that's needed including the consequences of, for example, leaving the paddle gear up on a short pound. Asking a long term boater to pass a licence examination will not change selfish behaviour.

[Biggles]

 

While I fully sympathise with the OP and his bad experience, a licence requirement would surely kill the hire trade. And what would you do with all the present owners who failed the test?

 

While I fully sympathise with the OP and his bad experience, a licence requirement would surely kill the hire trade. And what would you do with all the present owners who failed the test?

Doesn't in France. They just exempt hire boat and hirers. Of course we in the UK would stick to the rules.

 

If as you say it was a cruising club then a letter to the commodore would be a good place to start. If it's a decent club he/she will be pleased to know how poor his members boat skills are and take steps to educate them one would hope.

 

I'm sure there would be something in their club rules to cover bad boatmanship, bringing club into disrepute.

[Ray T]

What a license won't do is bestow common sense. That's what needed and sadly common sense is not very common - I'll bet we've all done something that we look back on with a little bit of shame and embarrassment! Better briefing of hire boat crews is, in my opinion, all that's needed including the consequences of, for example, leaving the paddle gear up on a short pound. Asking a long term boater to pass a license examination will not change selfish behavior.

 

Sad thing is common sense no longer appears to have a place in society.

When I worked for BT common sense went "out the window" when Total Quality Management techniques were introduced along with H & S and "Audit Trails". While common sense dictated to me a way of working I was censured for it because I wasn't following TQM guidelines (insert rules here).

 

 

To me all TQM appeared to be was a managemet tool to use for punative discipline.

I was a manager in BT but often struggled to follow "The Party Line".

Edited May 7, 2013 by Ray T

[Doodlebug]

Maybe they should just have signs up every so often at locks, maybe focused where hire boats tend to roam the canals. Just a large sign that gives 'friendly hints and tips' for the canals, like say hello, and dont act like a numpty.

 

Should work

[Idunhoe]

Sad to say it isn't always hire boaters that are the numpties. In my experience the worste offenders are shiny 57 footers who venture out of the marina just once a year.

[mrsmelly]

Sad to say it isn't always hire boaters that are the numpties. In my experience the worste offenders are shiny 57 footers who venture out of the marina just once a year.

 

Hi

 

You took the words right out of my mouth. Many private boat owners have no more idea than the man in the moon about boat handling. I liken it to silly little overpaid idiot footballers who at age 21 ( still a child ) when it come to motoring buy shiny new ferraris lambos etc, they have the money but not the ability.

 

Tim

[Berengaria]

Cropredy was interesting yesterday - just after the lock at the water point there were a dozen or so children in canoes dicking about by the towpath, not even rowing, but just jumping in and out and generally mucking about.

 

This is SLAP bang next to the lock gates and a very narrow bridge, with a busy water point and winding hole, and boats moored on both sides of the cut.

 

I don't want to come across all Victor Meldrew because I believe everyone should be able to enjoy the canals, but given the location and the fact there were at least two adults I could see supposedly in charge, it's a dangerous combination. There were boats trying to moor up to wait for the water point to become free, boats turning, and a constantly in use lock....why on earth they couldn't move 200 yards down the canal to a quieter part is beyond me...

[mrsmelly]

Cropredy was interesting yesterday - just after the lock at the water point there were a dozen or so children in canoes dicking about by the towpath, not even rowing, but just jumping in and out and generally mucking about.

 

This is SLAP bang next to the lock gates and a very narrow bridge, with a busy water point and winding hole, and boats moored on both sides of the cut.

 

I don't want to come across all Victor Meldrew because I believe everyone should be able to enjoy the canals, but given the location and the fact there were at least two adults I could see supposedly in charge, it's a dangerous combination. There were boats trying to moor up to wait for the water point to become free, boats turning, and a constantly in use lock....why on earth they couldn't move 200 yards down the canal to a quieter part is beyond me...

Hi

 

They do it there because that is the location the canoes are kept. Just between the bridge and the lock.

 

Tim

[Berengaria]

Hi

 

They do it there because that is the location the canoes are kept. Just between the bridge and the lock.

 

Tim

 

 

I'm aware that it's a good place to get in and out of canoes if you don't fancy walking, but this wasn't what was happening.

[Athy]

Tha Banbury Canoe Club's H.Q. is immediately above the road bridge. The canoeists are a regular feature on weekend (and Bank Holiday) mornings, but you must have been unlucky: usually they ARE well supervised and do not indulge in "dicking about" (ducking yes, usually involuntarily). On more than one occasion when I have slowed to avoid a gaggle of them, a bod in charge has said "Just keep going, WE will avoid YOU" - an unnerving situation, but as yet we have seen no small dead bodies in our wake.

Their usual range is down as far as Slat Mill Lock.

[Berengaria]

Tha Banbury Canoe Club's H.Q. is immediately above the road bridge. The canoeists are a regular feature on weekend (and Bank Holiday) mornings, but you must have been unlucky: usually they ARE well supervised and do not indulge in "dicking about" (ducking yes, usually involuntarily). On more than one occasion when I have slowed to avoid a gaggle of them, a bod in charge has said "Just keep going, WE will avoid YOU" - an unnerving situation, but as yet we have seen no small dead bodies in our wake.

Their usual range is down as far as Slat Mill Lock.

 

Hahaha

 

My main concern was that several of them were in the water ducking under their canoes and popping up the other side - add to this a boat at the water point, a boat approaching from the other direction, and me needing to moor up immediately after the bridge and it was like level 28 of a 30 level video game

[Dominic M]

 

Doesn't in France. They just exempt hire boat and hirers. Of course we in the UK would stick to the rules.

Just to put the record straight, the French aren't bending the rules, much as we love to claim on frequent occasion that they are.

 

On the navigations in France you're not required to have a permit for boats less or equal to 15 metres in length and whose speed does not exceed 12km/h. Whether it is a private or hired boat is irrelevant.

[Athy]

Hahaha

 

My main concern was that several of them were in the water ducking under their canoes and popping up the other side - add to this a boat at the water point, a boat approaching from the other direction, and me needing to moor up immediately after the bridge and it was like level 28 of a 30 level video game

Yes, as we both are aware, it can get "interesting" enough around the sanny station/ water point even when canoeists are not part of the melee.

Capsizing and righting your boat is part of a canoeist's training, but if the instructors were allowing that activity in that situation they were, to put it mildly, committing an error of judgement.

A telephone call or e-mail to the Canoe Club, outlining what you saw, might be beneficial - perhaps heads, as well as canoes, will roll.

[Berengaria]

Yeah I was concerned that I'd be so busy making sure Nina got off the bow safely on the bank that I'd be met by the crunch of fibreglass in between my hull and the armco.

 

I don't know if fibreglass scratches blacking or not

 

Nice to see you again the other day btw Mike