Making a boat simple to use?

[Bill2]

Is feasable to set up the battery charging on a boat to start a diesel generator automatically when the battery charge fell beloow 50%%?

This, with a huge battery bank and an electric motor. would allow the boat to be treated as a mobile electric powered house.

 

Bill2

[PaddingtonBear]

No, this is a perpetual motion machine.

[keble]

No, this is a perpetual motion machine.

No I don't think it is, because the OP mentions diesel as a fuel.

The concept of electric propulsion has been discussed and tried. A bit like a Prius perhaps?

[Dave_P]

Why would you want the genny to start automatically? It would wake you up in the night.

[BGA]

When I lived in Africa in the 1950's we had a system that would start a generator if two or more lights were switched on.

A useless piece of information for the rest of the world but hey whatever

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

There are systems that do that, do not know where but the modern hybrids use a voltage trigger to start the engine when the battery is low stand by generators kick in automatically on demand. I heard of a guy who had an electric motor off a miniature submarine he used a 3 pole heater for the water. A simple fail switch which closes when the voltage falls may be possible.

[Keith M]

Is feasable to set up the battery charging on a boat to start a diesel generator automatically when the battery charge fell beloow 50%%?

This, with a huge battery bank and an electric motor. would allow the boat to be treated as a mobile electric powered house.

 

Bill2

 

Many generators already have this system installed they can monitor up to two different battery banks

You can program in a voltage when you want the generator to start,then the set useally runs for a 3 / 4 hours

Have a look at Fischer Panda products

 

Keith

Edited March 14, 2013 by Keith M

[Ally]

The worry I would see would be the genny starting at times it 'shouldn't', ie anti-social hours. It would mostly be likely to start late evening for example.

[Dave-Shrop]

Is feasable to set up the battery charging on a boat to start a diesel generator automatically when the battery charge fell beloow 50%%?

This, with a huge battery bank and an electric motor. would allow the boat to be treated as a mobile electric powered house.

 

Bill2

 

Our Mastervolt Whisper 6 does just that, and you can set it not to come on during certain times (during night).

 

David

[blackrose]

The worry I would see would be the genny starting at times it 'shouldn't', ie anti-social hours. It would mostly be likely to start late evening for example.

 

It could happen, but the diesel generators that have these systems (Fischer Panda, Northern Lights, etc), are so quiet that it's unlikely to disturb anyone. Personally I'd just like the convenience of being able to start the generator with the push of a button and I'd switch the auto-start off.

[sueb]

It could happen, but the diesel generators that have these systems (Fischer Panda, Northern Lights, etc), are so quiet that it's unlikely to disturb anyone. Personally I'd just like the convenience of being able to start the generator with the push of a button and I'd switch the auto-start off.

You would be surprised how noise travels. A friend had a hospital silencer and her genny could be heard in a nearby house. Eperspachers are notorious for walking people up early in the morning. Just because your genny is quiet don't assume it won't annoy others.

[Chris Pink]

Is feasable to set up the battery charging on a boat to start a diesel generator automatically when the battery charge fell beloow 50%%?

This, with a huge battery bank and an electric motor. would allow the boat to be treated as a mobile electric powered house.

 

Bill2

 

Doorman of this forum has such a system without the electric motor.

[Chalky]

 

but the modern hybrids use a voltage trigger to start the engine when the battery is low stand by generators kick in automatically on demand.

 

 

It's significantly more complex than that...

[RLWP]

It's significantly more complex than that...

 

Spoilsport!

 

 

Richard

[gbmud]

With just a little logic a genny could be configured to start and charge a battery when the battery voltage was below a certain level (say, 50%) as long as the time was between 0800 and 2000. Another voltage level could be set so that if the battery voltage was lower than a certain level (60%?, depends what you might use before bed) by 1800 then the genny could cut in to recharge before the 2000 cutoff time. I am sure a small computer could easily do it. Whether something is available off the shelf, I do not know.

 

Chris

[Phil Ambrose]

Is feasable to set up the battery charging on a boat to start a diesel generator automatically when the battery charge fell beloow 50%%?

This, with a huge battery bank and an electric motor. would allow the boat to be treated as a mobile electric powered house.

 

Bill2

On the Broads one of the Wherries,( the White Moth) had her engine removed and a big battery bank fitted along with an electric motor, a diesel genny kicked in when needed to charge batteries. It works just fine

[Paul C]

AKA series hybrid. I believe its been discussed at length before on the forum, and the opinion was that without regenerative braking, hybrid is not cost effective for boats.

[NigelMoore]

Is feasable to set up the battery charging on a boat to start a diesel generator automatically when the battery charge fell beloow 50%%?

This, with a huge battery bank and an electric motor. would allow the boat to be treated as a mobile electric powered house.

 

Bill2

 

We were asked to provide such a system in a Dutch barge on the Thames – because the owner wanted the ability to cruise to Paris or Amsterdam and stay for awhile at moorings where no facilities were available. His barge had been fitted out reliant on shore power, with a few small 24v circuits for lighting. Everything else was 240v- dishwasher; iron; washer/dryer; electric stove, kettle and toaster; 60” plasma tv; high spec high power music system, etc etc.

 

We installed a 1600 amp-hr 24v battery bank [with every connection in 24 carat gold plate] connected to a 5kw [10kva surge] sine wave inverter, and linked that to a multi-switch shore-power/engine start [additional, separated 400 amp-hr bank]/ domestic switch arrangement linked to a voltage sensitive cocooned and water-cooled exhaust auto-start Fischer Panda diesel 24v generator charger. It would automatically come on [according to the settings you chose] when the battery bank fell to 50-60% of their charge.

 

The client was thrilled with the result. Against advice, he early tried to see how long he could last using all systems profligatly with the shore power pulled – he lasted 4 days – and that was with the auto-start generator switched off. It could be set for manual or auto [and at his permanent mooring was left off – a) because shore power was available and b ) because his was a mud berth unsuitable for running the water-cooled generator with the tide out].

 

When the generator did run, it only took about 4 - 5 hours to bring a 50% depleted battery bank to full, and was inaudible in the living quarters. It could be heard as a background hum in the main bedroom above the engine room, but was more a comforting humming/susseration of sound than anything disturbing.

 

This, I believe, answers the original post which did not, as I read it, concern itself with propulsion, but rather with self-sufficiency as a home.

[Psycloud]

We were asked to provide such a system in a Dutch barge on the Thames – because the owner wanted the ability to cruise to Paris or Amsterdam and stay for awhile at moorings where no facilities were available. His barge had been fitted out reliant on shore power, with a few small 24v circuits for lighting. Everything else was 240v- dishwasher; iron; washer/dryer; electric stove, kettle and toaster; 60” plasma tv; high spec high power music system, etc etc.

 

We installed a 1600 amp-hr 24v battery bank [with every connection in 24 carat gold plate] connected to a 5kw [10kva surge] sine wave inverter, and linked that to a multi-switch shore-power/engine start [additional, separated 400 amp-hr bank]/ domestic switch arrangement linked to a voltage sensitive cocooned and water-cooled exhaust auto-start Fischer Panda diesel 24v generator charger. It would automatically come on [according to the settings you chose] when the battery bank fell to 50-60% of their charge.

 

The client was thrilled with the result. Against advice, he early tried to see how long he could last using all systems profligatly with the shore power pulled – he lasted 4 days – and that was with the auto-start generator switched off. It could be set for manual or auto [and at his permanent mooring was left off – a) because shore power was available and b ) because his was a mud berth unsuitable for running the water-cooled generator with the tide out].

 

When the generator did run, it only took about 4 - 5 hours to bring a 50% depleted battery bank to full, and was inaudible in the living quarters. It could be heard as a background hum in the main bedroom above the engine room, but was more a comforting humming/susseration of sound than anything disturbing.

 

This, I believe, answers the original post which did not, as I read it, concern itself with propulsion, but rather with self-sufficiency as a home.

 

I'm curious - how much would a system like that cost????

[DHutch]

We were asked to provide such a system in a Dutch barge on the Thames – because the owner wanted the ability to cruise to Paris or Amsterdam and stay for awhile at moorings where no facilities were available.

 

snip

 

 

This, I believe, answers the original post which did not, as I read it, concern itself with propulsion, but rather with self-sufficiency as a home.

Its certainly very possible, all be it for a price, to provide a very reliable and automated off-grid installation, with cost effective solid state inverter technology now being very available. On a slightly larger scale, I visited the isle of egg, its exactly the same a boat, various feeds (solar, wind, hydro in this case) into a large battery bank, coupled to a large inverter, with a generator to make up the shortfall, and a electronic control and resource monitoring system.

The more compromises your willing to make, like not running the microwave at the same time as the washingmachine/hairdrier/inductionhob the lower you can get the cost, but for a given budget its all very possible.

 

The op did mention 'a large electric motor' which I like others presume is a nod to electric propulsion, and certainly there is an argument, particularly if moving is a little frequent occurrence and or there are other consideration at force, like space, that it makes sense utilise the substantial electrical to also propel the boat. However bar perhaps reducing the space taken by the second engine, I dont see any real benefit for it. Least not that unless the generator was much bigger than otherwise required, you would still find your self unable to run anything else while under way, and or not continuously rated for more powerful work, such as rivers. Canals alone might be less of an issue.

Nobody has mentioned the phrase 'gas free' yet. I shall not hold my breath!

 

 

Daniel

[jelunga]

Felonious Mongoose has the hybrid drive system and I am sure is gas free.

Uses the engine to charge and propell through a Lynch motor. Big battery bank, silent propulsion giving about 4 hrs cruising ish on batteries only. Plug in to shore power overnight to recharge or use main engine to recharge whilst cruisjng. Lovely boat built by Braidbar.

Thought about it, but decided not cost effective. But if you want silent cruising and gas free, then probably a good plan.

[DHutch]

I'm curious - how much would a system like that cost????

I would say 37pence. Plus or minus maybe five grand?

 

Depends somewhat on the spec of the batteries. Most of the rest of large items sufficiently spec'ed that you could google the individual prices and get a fair approximation, sans labour and design time. But I expect it sort of fits it 'a quite substantial amount of cash, but less than 10% of the total cost of the boat' bracket.

 

Im prehaps guilty of it myself on our own boat in some respects, but it often surprises me how much people are willing to spend on a boat, often including some quite elaborate specifications, but then so heavily compromise the electrical systems. Part of if it, certainly is our case, is the we dont go boating to watch tv while straightening our hair after having a power shower, and some of it may also be that boat builders are rarely electricians or engineers. But certainly an interested conversation and distraction from the fact I should be ripping plasterboard down from my bedroom!

 

Over and out.

 

 

Daniel

[Chalky]

 

AKA series hybrid. I believe its been discussed at length before on the forum, and the opinion was that without regenerative braking, hybrid is not cost effective for boats.

 

 

 

Without regen braking it's not cost effective for cars either. The hybrid system has a lower overall efficiency than a pure mechanical drive. Used out of town the hybrid costs more to run. Used in town with constant stop start then the hybrid has a definite advantage.

[NigelMoore]

I'm curious - how much would a system like that cost????

 

Well it was a rather fabulous system if I do say so myself, and it was all fitted into the engine room and behind, so involved considerable work removing ballast over the stern drive section and welding in a bespoke battery holding grid, as well as everything else.

 

All-up cost was around £10,000 probably, as best I can remember, though we supplied the most expensive items at little more than trade prices just because I wanted to play with doing such an installation and I really liked the client. You would probably need to add an extra £5,000 to arrive at a proper retail price. Another factor to consider is that it was a bit over 10 years ago, but I would think the appliance cost has not moved too much.

 

It supplied 5kw of 240v continuous pure sine wave power; 7kw intermittent and 10kw surge. The client swore that his music system sounded far superior from that system than when run on shore power, because of the purity and steadiness of the supply.

[smileypete]

I'm curious - how much would a system like that cost????

Probably more than an nice holiday or two, AND plenty of fine meals out, AND lots of good real ale, AND enough change to spare for a couple of kW of solar and a honda genny.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~