Geographical information system

[jenlyn]

Below is a write up on the system CRT uses to position our boats on the system. 2 things that concern me about this system, it can be manipulated, and can also be unreliable on some areas of the canal network, sometimes putting your vessel upto a mile out of your actual position.

 

Geographic information system

"GIS" redirects here. For other uses, see GIS (disambiguation).

Geographic information system (GIS) is a system designed to capture, store, manipulate, analyze, manage, and present all types of geographical data. The acronym GIS is sometimes used for geographical information science or geospatial information studies to refer to the academic discipline or career of working with geographic information systems.[1] In the simplest terms, GIS is the merging of cartography, statistical analysis, and database technology.

 

A GIS can be thought of as a system—it digitally creates and "manipulates" spatial areas that may be jurisdictional, purpose, or application-oriented. Generally, a GIS is custom-designed for an organization. Hence, a GIS developed for an application, jurisdiction, enterprise, or purpose may not be necessarily interoperable or compatible with a GIS that has been developed for some other application, jurisdiction, enterprise, or purpose. What goes beyond a GIS is a spatial data infrastructure, a concept that has no such restrictive boundaries.

 

In a general sense, the term describes any information system that integrates, stores, edits, analyzes, shares, and displays geographic information for informing decision making. GIS applications are tools that allow users to create interactive queries (user-created searches), analyze spatial information, edit data in maps, and present the results of all these operations.[2]Geographic information science is the science underlying geographic concepts, applications, and systems.[3]

[jim and pat dalton]

Believe it or not you can use excel for the same with a little software addition (name escapes me)

 

we used to use it to map social status of areas and was very useful for bussing various type of people to cansinos on specific days

[Leo No2]

Below is a write up on the system CRT uses to position our boats on the system. 2 things that concern me about this system, it can be manipulated, and can also be unreliable on some areas of the canal network, sometimes putting your vessel upto a mile out of your actual position.

 

Geographic information system

"GIS" redirects here. For other uses, see GIS (disambiguation).

Geographic information system (GIS) is a system designed to capture, store, manipulate, analyze, manage, and present all types of geographical data. The acronym GIS is sometimes used for geographical information science or geospatial information studies to refer to the academic discipline or career of working with geographic information systems.[1] In the simplest terms, GIS is the merging of cartography, statistical analysis, and database technology.

 

A GIS can be thought of as a system—it digitally creates and "manipulates" spatial areas that may be jurisdictional, purpose, or application-oriented. Generally, a GIS is custom-designed for an organization. Hence, a GIS developed for an application, jurisdiction, enterprise, or purpose may not be necessarily interoperable or compatible with a GIS that has been developed for some other application, jurisdiction, enterprise, or purpose. What goes beyond a GIS is a spatial data infrastructure, a concept that has no such restrictive boundaries.

 

In a general sense, the term describes any information system that integrates, stores, edits, analyzes, shares, and displays geographic information for informing decision making. GIS applications are tools that allow users to create interactive queries (user-created searches), analyze spatial information, edit data in maps, and present the results of all these operations.[2]Geographic information science is the science underlying geographic concepts, applications, and systems.[3]

I think you may be taking a too literal interpretation of the word 'manipulate' but understandably so. I looked after all of BA's operational data for many years and as we loaded it from the operational systems into the 'back office' databases we manipulated the data to get it into the places and format we required to make it usable because the operational systems and back end databases were two completely different operating systems - further apart than Windows and Apple Mac! What we didn't do was manipulate and transform it. We had to have our data checked by external agencies so that what we could see was in the operational systems was exactly the same as we had in the back end databases - I think the word manipulate is unfortunate but in reality that is the terminology that is used. CRT will need to 'manipulate' the data to move it from the hand held devices to their back end databases. I would expect, under their processes, that all the data is 'read only' and that it cannot be changed except by way of a fully auditable process. They will need to change data from time-to-time where errors, omissions or just a corruption occur.

[jenlyn]

I think you may be taking a too literal interpretation of the word 'manipulate' but understandably so. I looked after all of BA's operational data for many years and as we loaded it from the operational systems into the 'back office' databases we manipulated the data to get it into the places and format we required to make it usable because the operational systems and back end databases were two completely different operating systems - further apart than Windows and Apple Mac! What we didn't do was manipulate and transform it. We had to have our data checked by external agencies so that what we could see was in the operational systems was exactly the same as we had in the back end databases - I think the word manipulate is unfortunate but in reality that is the terminology that is used. CRT will need to 'manipulate' the data to move it from the hand held devices to their back end databases. I would expect, under their processes, that all the data is 'read only' and that it cannot be changed except by way of a fully auditable process. They will need to change data from time-to-time where errors, omissions or just a corruption occur.

Thanks for that explanation, it helps to clear that point.

The other reason I am questioning the use of this system, is in relation to a boater who had requested his boat movement from CRT's data. It consequently turned up the fact that he was being recorded at sites he had not moored at. Some further research has resulted in discovering it happens frequently.

[GUMPY]

GIS is also used by planning departments, local councils and many others. I think that your paranoia is begining to show through.

[jenlyn]

GIS is also used by planning departments, local councils and many others. I think that your paranoia is begining to show through.

I will accept your reply and thinking. I will put it down to someone with limited mind space and no inclination to question and discover possible answers to problems being experienced by others;-)

[Leo No2]

Thanks for that explanation, it helps to clear that point.

The other reason I am questioning the use of this system, is in relation to a boater who had requested his boat movement from CRT's data. It consequently turned up the fact that he was being recorded at sites he had not moored at. Some further research has resulted in discovering it happens frequently.

I should have added that if requested, they should be able to easily demonstrate that the data has not been transformed and provide a list of instances where the data has been changed, the reason for the change and the 'authority' who authorised that change and the 'authority' who signed that the work was undertaken correctly. In each case that would be an accountable individually named person duly 'authorised' to make such decisions.

[IanM]

Thanks for that explanation, it helps to clear that point.

The other reason I am questioning the use of this system, is in relation to a boater who had requested his boat movement from CRT's data. It consequently turned up the fact that he was being recorded at sites he had not moored at. Some further research has resulted in discovering it happens frequently.

 

When you say "happens frequently" it could be, as is often the case with things, that the people making the most noise are the ones it has happened to where in the vast majority of cases the information is correct.

[jenlyn]

I should have added that if requested, they should be able to easily demonstrate that the data has not been transformed and provide a list of instances where the data has been changed, the reason for the change and the 'authority' who authorised that change and the 'authority' who signed that the work was undertaken correctly. In each case that would be an accountable individually named person duly 'authorised' to make such decisions.

Thankyou. Much appreciated.

[john6767]

The description you quote is just of the generic concept of a GIS system taken literally from Wikipedia. It is not specific to any particular implementation of a GIS system that any one customer would use. Many companies that have dispersed assets use GIS systems, utilities are a classic example, but of course CRT will certainly be using one (or more) to manage their assets (locks, bridges etc).

[jenlyn]

When you say "happens frequently" it could be, as is often the case with things, that the people making the most noise are the ones it has happened to where in the vast majority of cases the information is correct.

No. I am a little more thorough than you are giving me credit for.

[Sweeny Todd]

Hi, I work with GIS data on a daily basis having staff 'on the ground' using handheld devices to collect information on the contract on which I am currently working. As with everything in life, the data being entered onto these devices is susceptible to human error. The way the hand helds work is by capturing GPS co-ordinates (which assuming the handheld has been set up correctly is usually accurate to within a few meters) and then the person collecting the information fills in the details required. This is where errors can occur.

[jenlyn]

Hi, I work with GIS data on a daily basis having staff 'on the ground' using handheld devices to collect information on the contract on which I am currently working. As with everything in life, the data being entered onto these devices is susceptible to human error. The way the hand helds work is by capturing GPS co-ordinates (which assuming the handheld has been set up correctly is usually accurate to within a few meters) and then the person collecting the information fills in the details required. This is where errors can occur.

K, thanks for that. It explains something else. Sometimes, a checker has been noted to pass boats moored, seemingly not inputting the info. Then noted to be stopped further along the towpath, inputting data. Perhaps another reason why boats are being sited where they are not. Also, can the input be related to the boat being recorded as moving?

[Tony Brooks]

Hi, I work with GIS data on a daily basis having staff 'on the ground' using handheld devices to collect information on the contract on which I am currently working. As with everything in life, the data being entered onto these devices is susceptible to human error. The way the hand helds work is by capturing GPS co-ordinates (which assuming the handheld has been set up correctly is usually accurate to within a few meters) and then the person collecting the information fills in the details required. This is where errors can occur.

 

 

But surely the location should be checked automatically to flag any that were unlikely. Last week the boat was supposed to be on the K&A yet this week its way above Birmingham. Not impossible but not very likely.

 

I would hope the BW system does this but suspect it does not, hence the reports Jenlyn mentions. The system should do its best to counter human error.

 

Such errors are my biggest concern over the mooring proposals and the time period between BW thinking they have an overstay and actually informing the boater concerned.

 

I think a CaRT representative needs to respond with a full picture of how their system works and what checks and balances they have in place.

[Chris Pink]

K, thanks for that. It explains something else. Sometimes, a checker has been noted to pass boats moored, seemingly not inputting the info. Then noted to be stopped further along the towpath, inputting data. Perhaps another reason why boats are being sited where they are not. Also, can the input be related to the boat being recorded as moving?

 

I was told by a boat checker when I asked him about this that they are told not to input details of boats where the owner is visibly aboard "to avoid confrontation"

[matty40s]

GIS is also used by planning departments, local councils and many others. I think that your paranoia is begining to show through.

No Paranoia old IdleLoddon.

Last Summer I was with a friend whilst ripping out his old and fitting out his new kitchen.

We started at Willoughby on the North Oxford late April, moved to Braunston, Calcutt Junction, Stockton Top, Fenny Compton , back to Braunston for the festival and then I left to go up the Coventry and T&M.He moved back to Willoughby.

 

He received a notice after moving back to Willoughby with a letter attached stating he had been obverved there for 9 months without moving - on calling to request details - (and have a rant) - he was told the checkers had recorded him there electronically over that period.

I sent him photo's of the other spots he had been in over that time.

[jenlyn]

I was told by a boat checker when I asked him about this that they are told not to input details of boats where the owner is visibly aboard "to avoid confrontation"

And that is exactly what is happening. It happened recently with a boat inputted as being on a VM when he was not. Luckily, he had seen the checker do this.

It's just something I wish to bring to CRT's attention.

[GUMPY]

No Paranoia old IdleLoddon.

Last Summer I was with a friend whilst ripping out his old and fitting out his new kitchen.

We started at Willoughby on the North Oxford late April, moved to Braunston, Calcutt Junction, Stockton Top, Fenny Compton , back to Braunston for the festival and then I left to go up the Coventry and T&M.He moved back to Willoughby.

 

He received a notice after moving back to Willoughby with a letter attached stating he had been obverved there for 9 months without moving - on calling to request details - (and have a rant) - he was told the checkers had recorded him there electronically over that period.

I sent him photo's of the other spots he had been in over that time.

I have just been discussing on the phone keeping a log to prove you were moving and we decided that the easiest way would be date and time stamped photos every time you stop.

The simplest way would be to take advantage of the tracking data that google gathers from your mobile phone but then there is no proof the phone is with the boat.

[jenlyn]

I have just been discussing on the phone keeping a log to prove you were moving and we decided that the easiest way would be date and time stamped photos every time you stop.

The simplest way would be to take advantage of the tracking data that google gathers from your mobile phone but then there is no proof the phone is with the boat.

I think it would be simpler for CRT to ensure correct procedure when using their particular system.

[GUMPY]

I think it would be simpler for CRT to ensure correct procedure when using their particular system.

Agreed, but I always like to have a backup just in case,

[sam pig]

I am sure it is just initial gremlins in the system. Give it another few weeks and the staff will be more competent at more accurately entering the data of boats that have sat on visitor moorings for weeks and weeks.

 

Hopefully the CRT staff will have it polished for Easter to coincide with the increase in boaters looking for visitor mooring space.

 

Hopefully peoples human rights will not be abused in the process.

[jenlyn]

I am sure it is just initial gremlins in the system. Give it another few weeks and the staff will be more competent at more accurately entering the data of boats that have sat on visitor moorings for weeks and weeks.

 

Hopefully the CRT staff will have it polished for Easter to coincide with the increase in boaters looking for visitor mooring space.

 

Hopefully peoples human rights will not be abused in the process.

Erm, it's not a new system to CRT.

[sam pig]

Erm, it's not a new system to CRT.

 

Quite a lot of the staff are, or at least they are round the T and M, or should I say the four I have spoke to in the last few weeks are.

 

Invariably it is not the kit it is the user.

 

As I say, give em a few weeks more experience and they will be better at it.

[jenlyn]

Quite a lot of the staff are, or at least they are round the T and M, or should I say the four I have spoke to in the last few weeks are.

 

Invariably it is not the kit it is the user.

 

As I say, give em a few weeks more experience and they will be better at it.

I've not had any input from anyone on the T and M.

I wonder if volunteers will struggle with it.

Edited March 6, 2013 by jenlyn

[Up-Side-Down]

I think it would be simpler for CRT to ensure correct procedure when using their particular system.

If you take a picture of your boat with an iPhone the metadata attached to that image will include a geotag (precise locational information) along with date, time and all the photo data. I'm sure this applies to other GPS enabled smart phones as well. This would be simpler than keeping a detailed journey log, far less effort and proof positive!

 

There is also an App called Trails (£1.99 from iTunes) that records your position over a day's journey. This log can be emailed to the computer/device that you use to download your images to and the GPS data 'attached' to the metadata of any images that you've taken that day (it simply syncronizes the time the image was taken with the location plotted in Trails against time of that plot) - effectively giving your camera GPS functionality and a geotag on all your images.

 

As someone who has to be able to locate all the images that I take around the waterways, I find this a particularly inexpensive option when compared to buying DSLR cameras with GPS functionality and means that I can use any camera and still have my images geotagged.

 

Anyone wanting more info please feel free to pm me.