sparrowcycles Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 On 16/08/2018 at 20:45, pete harrison said: I have the original Bulls Bridge documents that detail the demise of HENRY complete with dates, so don't spend too much time looking for it. I think the footings and bottom were replaced in preparation for the 'gravel run' in 1983. When I was messing about with PRINCE directly before its refurbishment it had quite a lot of concrete set into the boats bottom. The 1983 renovations were carried out at Keelkast, Horseley Fields as I remember having to stop off to recover some bits and pieces I had been storing in the Cabin - and I remember Barry Lycett being very cross with me Ah shame, I do get caught up in the romance of finding lost boats Grand, well that would tie in with what I saw in the hold, I shall investigate further when I go up there next, it would certainly be interesting if it was a bcn bottom and footings. I think it's had a lot of different plating to be honest. 3 minutes ago, RLWP said: More likely to protect them from the wet shotcrete Richard That does make more sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 4 hours ago, Rose Narrowboats said: I'm sure my grandfather also referred to Prince as one of "his" gunnite boats which says it would have been somewhere on the old Warwick district as well - possibly also Hillmorton section but in the 60s as he did move there until 1961. I have a couple of credible 'enthusiast' observations spread across some incredible Izal tracing paper stating that PRINCE was seen at at Cowley Junction in May 1961, then at Hillmorton Depot newly painted as PRINCE - CEMENT GUN PLANT No. 2 exactly one year later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 3 hours ago, sparrowcycles said: Ah shame, I do get caught up in the romance of finding lost boats There is still the occasional 'lost' boat that turns up, usually found on land storage away from the waterways. Obviously there were thousands of commercial boats built over the years and confirming the fate of each and every one is impossible, but two have turned up in recent times - the fore end of the small Woolwich AURORA and the stern end of the F.M.C. Ltd. iron horse boat WINSFORD, both of which were converted to pleasure cruisers fifty odd years ago and stored off the canal. An equally great task is confirming the true identity of former commercial boats, especially those cut about and renamed as part of a pleasure boat conversion - with F.M.C. horse boats and B.C.N. day boats being the hardest to establish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrtm Posted August 19, 2018 Report Share Posted August 19, 2018 I see quite a few converted bcn boat i never noticed the. much before but quite a few are 1/2 - 3/4 of the boat. some are done like squire where the metal was cut and bend then only a very small amount of steel added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland elsdon Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 Malvern . braunston marina. mid 1980s charm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djgoode1980 Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, roland elsdon said: Malvern . braunston marina. mid 1980s charm. Is she for sale? The ex butty not the hill class motor I take it https://m.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=579089 anyone said about Uranus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 25 minutes ago, djgoode1980 said: Is she for sale? The ex butty not the hill class motor I take it https://m.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=579089 anyone said about Uranus? What on earth is a 'hill class motor' ? I will carry on where Mr Hogg left off - F.M.C. Ltd. did not build boats in classes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland elsdon Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 32 minutes ago, djgoode1980 said: Is she for sale? The ex butty not the hill class motor I take it https://m.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=579089 anyone said about Uranus? Malvern is at 45000 full length motor counter i think 1986 . By Fuller brothers. advert on braunston site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, roland elsdon said: Malvern is at 45000 full length motor counter i think 1986 . By Fuller brothers. advert on braunston site. MALVERN; http://www.braunstonmarina.co.uk/Boat-Details/malvern But I can not think of a single reason why anybody would want to buy an old fashioned Josher when there are Grand Union boats on the waterways that will come up for sale 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrtm Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 8 minutes ago, pete harrison said: What on earth is a 'hill class motor' ? I will carry on where Mr Hogg left off - F.M.C. Ltd. did not build boats in classes didn't they build in groups? p.s. its a question apart from a few boats or a few (groups sets what ever you wanna call it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrtm Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, pete harrison said: MALVERN; http://www.braunstonmarina.co.uk/Boat-Details/malvern But I can not think of a single reason why anybody would want to buy an old fashioned Josher when there are Grand Union boats on the waterways that will come up for sale wouldnt buy either there not made of the right material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, billybobbooth said: didn't they build in groups? p.s. its a question apart from a few boats or a few (groups sets what ever you wanna call it) Fellows, Morton and Clayton Ltd. built almost continuously with boats being produced by their own yards as well as other builders. All of their new built boats shared general dimensions and to all intent and purpose were the same - hence no classes. Of course they had to name them after something an common themes were picked, but the boats remained fundamentally the same. I have a good transcript of numerous F.M.C. Ltd. records and the word 'class' is never mentioned or suggested, this generally being an enthusiast term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted August 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 35 minutes ago, roland elsdon said: Malvern is at 45000 full length motor counter i think 1986 . By Fuller brothers. advert on braunston site. Says £49,950 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted August 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 30 minutes ago, pete harrison said: MALVERN; http://www.braunstonmarina.co.uk/Boat-Details/malvern But I can not think of a single reason why anybody would want to buy an old fashioned Josher when there are Grand Union boats on the waterways that will come up for sale Quote Original thickness 9-6-4 built by Fellows Morton & Clayton. It would be interesting to see the plans! No expert on Joshers, but would it have even been steel/iron bottomed initially? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrtm Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, alan_fincher said: It would be interesting to see the plans! No expert on Joshers, but would it have even been steel/iron bottomed initially? if I'm not mistaken no josher was steel bottom im sure they were all elm wood bottoms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, alan_fincher said: It would be interesting to see the plans! No expert on Joshers, but would it have even been steel/iron bottomed initially? All Joshers were built with wooden bottoms, but the figures quoted could date to the rebuild as an advert from 1988 states 'new steel bottom and footings this year' (but an advert from 1985 mentions wooden bottoms) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted August 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, pete harrison said: All Joshers were built with wooden bottoms.............. Of course they were........ put it down to the fact we are just back from the pub! We looked at Malvern the last time it was up for sale for a long while. It was a rough old thing, and I wasn't coninced it wouldn't need stripping and starting again internally. My understanding was that the motor conversion was by Martin Fuller, rather than Roger who is usually credited with such things. It looked pretty good. Unlike the main accommodation cabin, that has seriously "wobbly" steelwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete harrison Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 14 minutes ago, billybobbooth said: if I'm not mistaken no josher was steel bottom im sure they were all elm wood bottoms You are mistaken as a surprising number of Joshers were built with spruce bottoms, according to F.M.C. Ltd.'s own records Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roland elsdon Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 22 minutes ago, alan_fincher said: Says £49,950 Yes well i walked past it five hours ago wearing bifocals so it might have changed in price. It looks unspectacular. The counters quite basic and the cabin is typical 1980s. Looks a little unloved but not like most boats on brokerage... would make a nice boat for someone who wants a conversion, and doesnt mind doing some painting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 "Original 9-6-4", presumably millimeters. A 9mm wooden bottom might have lasted a day or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 24 minutes ago, Derek R. said: "Original 9-6-4", presumably millimeters. A 9mm wooden bottom might have lasted a day or two. Whereas a nine inch bottom would seriously effect it's carrying capacity As would six inch steel sides, I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Derek R. said: "Original 9-6-4", presumably millimeters. A 9mm wooden bottom might have lasted a day or two. So should be more like 76-6-4! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djgoode1980 Posted August 20, 2018 Report Share Posted August 20, 2018 2 hours ago, pete harrison said: Fellows, Morton and Clayton Ltd. built almost continuously with boats being produced by their own yards as well as other builders. All of their new built boats shared general dimensions and to all intent and purpose were the same - hence no classes. Of course they had to name them after something an common themes were picked, but the boats remained fundamentally the same. I have a good transcript of numerous F.M.C. Ltd. records and the word 'class' is never mentioned or suggested, this generally being an enthusiast term Getting it wrong since 1975...? its abit like people saying it’s been 100 years since World War One ended, sorry don’t they mean The Great War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) Damned if you do - damned if you don't. Maybe we should call them groups, or batches. Faulkner is a respected author, and the word class comes easily to the mind and lips, but that does not necessarily mean the companies who built the boats always used the word class. Yarwood's used the word "type", but Royalty, Town and Star have all been termed as classes, most likely by those other than the builders. Unless there is evidence to show otherwise? Never heard the word class describe any boat built by FMC, always in some later publication. It seems neither right or wrong, just something that has come to pass in the telling. Edited August 21, 2018 by Derek R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilllearning Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 13 hours ago, alan_fincher said: Of course they were........ put it down to the fact we are just back from the pub! We looked at Malvern the last time it was up for sale for a long while. It was a rough old thing, and I wasn't coninced it wouldn't need stripping and starting again internally. My understanding was that the motor conversion was by Martin Fuller, rather than Roger who is usually credited with such things. It looked pretty good. Unlike the main accommodation cabin, that has seriously "wobbly" steelwork. If it is the same Malvern that we looked at down at Harefield, has it got windows on one side and portholes the other, or something like that? AS2 engines sound great and push a boat along beautifully but not sure I actually want one in a boat. An old water cooled lump would always be my preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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