petition against the south east mooring proposals

[Paul C]

Because the VM's up here have the rings and/or bollards required to ensure you can secure your boat and not be pulled off your mooring by the large commercial vessels that still ply their trade up here.

 

Mooring on anything else where it would involve mooring spikes for example is not an option.

 

If CRT allowed boats to stay 'anywhere' including VM's for up to 14 days it would potentially totally clog up VM's up here.

 

That's a good example of how these topics can have specific local issues. Conversely, where I am, there is armco in several non-visitor mooring areas. This is just as secure to moor to if you have and know how to use a nappy pin. (In fact, they're better, because often the rings aren't quite in the right place for optimal rope angles). But I'd not like to hammer a pin in and trust the boat to be secure for 2 weeks.

[Tuscan]

I have never found it crowded during winter months either but it will be a different situation during peek holiday season. Which is why I think CRT need to consider the seasonal element to any popular spot and make any restrictions only for the period where it may do some good.

 

 

Yes if it is proved there Is a need then it should only be for the brief 8 week summer season. Easier to police and manage as well I suspect.

[TNC]

Because the VM's up here have the rings and/or bollards required to ensure you can secure your boat and not be pulled off your mooring by the large commercial vessels that still ply their trade up here.

 

Mooring on anything else where it would involve mooring spikes for example is not an option.

 

If CRT allowed boats to stay 'anywhere' including VM's for up to 14 days it would potentially totally clog up VM's up here.

 

We have boated extensively on the commercial waterways in the past, when there was commercial traffic, as opposed to the pathetic amount there is now. There were hardly any VM's then and we had no trouble mooring up to bollards, rings, piling. Maybe it is getting too popular up north.... but I thought everyone had come to London?

[Guest]

We have boated extensively on the commercial waterways in the past, when there was commercial traffic, as opposed to the pathetic amount there is now. There were hardly any VM's then and we had no trouble mooring up to bollards, rings, piling. Maybe it is getting too popular up north.... but I thought everyone had come to London?

 

There is still a significant amount of commercials moving day and night up here and it's not a 'pathetic' amount. It does however mean you still can't just moor anywhere like you can on other parts of the system. As you say VM's are limited and that is my point.

 

Most (all on the A&CN) are currently 48 hours max.

 

Some like Barnby Dun on the S&SYN or Whitley lock or Eggborough or Birkwood lock on the A&CN would soon get clogged up if boaters were allowed to stay there 14 days.

 

As I said the 14 days 'anywhere' is not a one size fits all solution.

Edited February 2, 2013 by The Dog House

[TNC]

I was going to respond but then I realised you hadn't actually read my post correctly.

 

Maybe I am being thick, perhaps you could explain.

[Guest]

Maybe I am being thick, perhaps you could explain.

 

You quoted me prior to my edit.

[TNC]

There is still a significant amount of commercials moving day and night up here and it's not a 'pathetic' amount. It does however mean you still can't just moor anywhere like you can on other parts of the system. As you say VM's are limited and that is my point.

 

Most (all on the A&CN) are currently 48 hours max.

 

Some like Barnby Dun on the S&SYN or Whitley lock or Eggborough or Birkwood lock on the A&CN would soon get clogged up if boaters were allowed to stay there 14 days.

 

As I said the 14 days 'anywhere' is not a one size fits all solution.

 

I said there were hardly any VM's then (or not designated as such) not that they were limited. There are many piled places, with railwayline buffering, that you can moor up to on the A&C and S&STN. You just need a good pair of tyre fenders and chains.

Edited February 2, 2013 by TNC

[FadeToScarlet]

That's a good example of how these topics can have specific local issues. Conversely, where I am, there is armco in several non-visitor mooring areas. This is just as secure to moor to if you have and know how to use a nappy pin. (In fact, they're better, because often the rings aren't quite in the right place for optimal rope angles). But I'd not like to hammer a pin in and trust the boat to be secure for 2 weeks.

 

I would. But then my mooring pins are 4' long and made of scaffold pole!

[Skye]

This may seem a bit naive, coming from a non boat owner but a hirer for a number of years. Why the hell would anyone want to spend 14 days on a visitor mooring? unless you have someone ill in the family near to it, or the cut happened to freeze over while you visited the local religious establishment (church or pub)

[Grace and Favour]

This may seem a bit naive, coming from a non boat owner but a hirer for a number of years. Why the hell would anyone want to spend 14 days on a visitor mooring? unless you have someone ill in the family near to it, or the cut happened to freeze over while you visited the local religious establishment (church or pub)

 

Or one's offspring attended a local school, or one's workplace was local, or one liked the friendly nearby hostelries

[carlt]

Or one's offspring attended a local school, or one's workplace was local, or one liked the friendly nearby hostelries

 

or you were a non-liveaboard ccer who moved his boat around the country at weekends, occasionally having to miss a week.

[Skye]

Or one's offspring attended a local school, or one's workplace was local, or one liked the friendly nearby hostelries

Then surely this is not visiting, unless your off spring are visiting the local school, or you are just visiting your workplace

[bowten]

Every time I look at the forum topic it says 'Replying to petition against the south..............I keep having to remind myself this does not mean us from oop Norf can,after all these years,get to have a say and be able to petition the sarf.

[Skye]

or you were a non-liveaboard ccer who moved his boat around the country at weekends, occasionally having to miss a week.

This I can live with because I'm sure, but have no evidence to back this up, that most cc's don't leave their boats for longer on a regular basis, although I'm sure, like in all walks of life their will be the odd few that want to bend the rules

[cotswoldsman]

Because the VM's up here have the rings and/or bollards required to ensure you can secure your boat and not be pulled off your mooring by the large commercial vessels that still ply their trade up here.

 

Mooring on anything else where it would involve mooring spikes for example is not an option.

 

If CRT allowed boats to stay 'anywhere' including VM's for up to 14 days it would potentially totally clog up VM's up here.

 

Sorry Martin do not agree I used spikes last year you just need to get yourself some long spikes

[Tuscan]

Every time I look at the forum topic it says 'Replying to petition against the south..............I keep having to remind myself this does not mean us from oop Norf can,after all these years,get to have a say and be able to petition the sarf.

 

 

Don't worry whatever is agreed/imposed will surely spread north of Watford gap.

[Guest]

I said there were hardly any VM's then (or not designated as such) not that they were limited. There are many piled places, with railwayline buffering, that you can moor up to on the A&C and S&STN. You just need a good pair of tyre fenders and chains.

 

Sorry Martin do not agree I used spikes last year you just need to get yourself some long spikes

 

That is of course your choice but it remains the general advice up on the A&CN and the SSYN to moor where there are rings and bollards.

 

From here -

 

http://www.bluestarsurveys.co.uk/acn_sg.pdf

 

If not properly tied up, boats can be

dragged off moorings, or heeled over,

by the wash of barges. Ensure you

have ropes to resist fore and aft

movement (springs) and keep all lines

as near level as you can and securely

tied to rings or bollards, never use

pins.

 

I have rarely (if ever seen a boat doing other wise). We did it once near Fleet Oil terminal where Humber Pride Used to pass but we knew she was not scheduled to pass whilst we moored there.

 

The chain and fenders idea is interesting though, but again I've rarely seen a boat moored other than at VM's so I don't think this is at all commonly done for what ever reason.

[Rusty Shackleford]

This may seem a bit naive, coming from a non boat owner but a hirer for a number of years. Why the hell would anyone want to spend 14 days on a visitor mooring? unless you have someone ill in the family near to it, or the cut happened to freeze over while you visited the local religious establishment (church or pub)

 

 

I've been wondering the same thing. 14 days to me seems too much and is a waste of mooring space, assuming that these are in popular areas near amenities anyway. If people have local ties as in employment or schools then CRT has good right to change them, not for revenue (which is a silly arguement used by the guilty) but to make valuable spaces usable for more boats. For the balance why don't people reply to the position arguing that they haven't gone far enough?

[GUMPY]

OK Those moorings where there's heavy commercial traffic usin the canal there could be some VM but restricted to overnight only no return within 5 days.

In fact if you really want to keep VM make them all overnight only no return within 5 days this would be easy to enforce and if someone wanted to visit for a longer period then they would just have to use TP moorings

 

As before stringent penalties for anyone overstaying

[Keeping Up]

I've just posted this in the other thread about the proposals, and I'm sure that most people are reading both threads, but would like to post it here as well (does thaht count as "overstaying?") because the two threads will inevitably be taking slightly different directions.

 

I'm taking my time, avidly reading everything that has been posted here, with the hope of being able to make a more informed and balanced response on the feedback form. I admit that my views have altered slightly while following this debate - but ony by a little. I very strongly support the declared priority of "improving the chances of boaters finding space when they arrive at designated visited moorings" provided that they have been designated at appropriate places and I freely admit that this is a totally self-serving interest.

 

As someone who moors in the south-east, who is familiar with all the sites in question but travels a lot all over the country, one of the problems that I have to face in the peak of the summer is that of finding an overnight mooring at my intended destination. On one occasion many years ago, I had to travel for an additional 3 hours into the evening and in the rain before I could find any sort of mooring - but that was before VM's were commonplace. Since then I have always (except on the K&A) found it possible to moor somewhere near where I wanted to, and I think this is largely because of the existence of VM's; indeed the easiest place to find moorings seem to be the Shroppie and the Llangollen where the preponderance of SUCC moorings - and the lack of overstayers on them - seems to be highly effective.

 

In the south-east, I still sometimes find it diificult to moor exactly where I want to - last summer one night I couldn't stop anywhere at Braunston for example, simply because all the VMs were full of genuine visitors (a problem which no amount of wardens and scales of overstaying charges could address), a couple of days later I had to moor about 350 yards from the pub at Bugbrooke, and a few years ago I had to moor almost at Leighton Lock to visit the Globe - but these have been isolated incidents, none were exactly major problems (a 350 yard walk back from the pub is probably a positive benefit to health) and certainly nothing to justify any draconian measures. At other times when I want to moor somewhere peaceful and away from it all, I hope that the VM's will help concentrate the other moorers so that my favourite countryside spot will be vacant - but this is becoming less possible because in most places especially in the south-east all my favourite, isolated mooring spots now have somebody living there on a permanent basis.

 

The difficult debate that I am now having with myself is that, given my preference for an adequate range of VMs, what should C&RT do that is different from today and/or different from the proposals in the paper. I don't know the answer to that one; so I'd like to pose the question to other posters here, what would be your answer to that question? Do you think that the situation today is perfect and will always be so, or do would you like to see changes? And if you'd like to see changes, what would YOU like to see instead of these proposals?

 

(Edited because the formatting screwed up)

Edited February 3, 2013 by Keeping Up

[Chris Pink]

I think stop slinging blame around would be a good start. Blame just makes people defensive.

 

Accurate and comprehensive data would be the next step. Visitor numbers, frequency, desired length of stay for example.

 

That would be a step change forward.

[TNC]

Every time I look at the forum topic it says 'Replying to petition against the south..............I keep having to remind myself this does not mean us from oop Norf can,after all these years,get to have a say and be able to petition the sarf.

 

It's grim up North London

 

But beware...coming soon to a VM near you...

[GUMPY]

Having sat and thought about this

Scrap all VM as they presently stand

Create some such as outside pubs, and other "attractions" overnight only no return within 5 days.

Also some stop and shop moorings outside supermarkets.

The rest of the towpath to be max of 14days in any location , now comes the hard bit how far you should have to move and how long before return to the same place.

[TNC]

Having sat and thought about this

Scrap all VM as they presently stand

Create some such as outside pubs, and other "attractions" overnight only no return within 5 days.

Also some stop and shop moorings outside supermarkets.

The rest of the towpath to be max of 14days in any location , now comes the hard bit how far you should have to move and how long before return to the same place.

 

Ah!...some of the Irish has worn off on you!

 

In Ireland, on the Shannon Navigation we do the other 5 day rule. "You may not berth at a particular quay or harbour for more than 5 consecutive days nor more than a total of 7 days in any one month."

 

The Erne is different, "No vessel or boat should remain moored at or in the vicinity of a public mooring for a continuous period of more than 48 hours. A new period shall begin after an absence from the mooring for four hours or more." This may sound hard to police, but it is all big water, the Erne Warden is vey pro-active in his whizzy speed boat and soon knows where all the boaters are. It is only seriously policed when the moorings are getting full.

[Lady Muck]

I said there were hardly any VM's then (or not designated as such) not that they were limited. There are many piled places, with railwayline buffering, that you can moor up to on the A&C and S&STN. You just need a good pair of tyre fenders and chains.

 

I know that you can't moor to the armco in Knottingley (my hometown), there's nowhere to attach goat chains or armco pins - it's topped with concrete that sticks out quite a bit. There are some moorings at Ferrybridge opposite the VM (not the fenced off commercial mooring), a little further back. They have bollards there. I used that mooring when we took our boat to Knotla - it was a little annoying having spent months travelling, to get to my hometown, planning to spend at least a fortnight there and finding out that every single VM was 48 hours. If it wasn't for these other moorings I'd have been really upset.

 

Needless to say we noticed most boaters ignored the signs - there were weekenders there when we visited who both left their boats on the 48 hour for a fortnight, (we were in the area 3 weeks in the end), but it wasn't that busy anyway, so what did it matter?

 

and this is another reason I'm against these proposals - not every canal is the same.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Lady Muck