Rusty Shackleford

Intent, especially how the 1995 act was implemented, along with terms and conditions...will be powerfull advantages to win a case if went to court. CRT know this, so do their lawyers. Picking holes in 'bonefide navigation' is pointless (going to waterline or services etc) law does not work like that, and I'm surprised 'experts' don't pick up on that. You can't have countless boats not moving and staying put if CRT lose a court case. In the very unlikely event they lost a court case, they would...eventually...have ammunition to have the law changed...to their advantage. The eventual compromise before we get that far, if any...may be worse than the current situation. In fact...if people don't come up with a decent solution and not trying to have it all, I bet on it.

Double post.

I agree, thats why I speed past moored boats and nudge lock gates open. Not illegal or enforceable by law.

I can, but sometimes make contact from time to time, even the most proficient boater will. Gave a lock a good whack on a hire boat earlier this year when the wind/currents caught the boat. Not too worried about the boat paintwork, but some of the locks we use are heavily leaking from what can be considered boat striking wear. I don't mind opening both gates, it's all part of the fun and were doing our bit to preserve them.

It wasn't a single lock. Obviously.

Absolutely. But what we want and what we get are two different things. The GPS payment comment was an obvious joke and not a sensible solution put forward on my part. However, someone else proposing it seriously (or it becoming the norm) would not be very surprising to me a few years down the line.

If it was a new boater, I would assume they would want both gates open because that is common good practice and what your told when starting (like speed limits on roads). It's happened to us, somebody waving for us enter through one gate, only for us to wait to open the other ourselves.

It would be wonderful if the canals were self policing, in a way, they can be. Canals are more personable than roads, you see, talk and have eye contact. Was on the K&A a few years back coming up to a lock, the boat in front was just entering (lads apparently borrowing a private boat) and when they saw us started to work manically to get in before we turned up so they couldn't share. Obviously we caught up at the next lock and they were sheepish, one was very apologetic. We were all in the same pub later! The problem is, bad manners, law breaking (and bending) and common etiquette can only go so far. How many times do you hear (and see) a boater championing obvious poor practice? Quite a lot (even on here). Yet the person in question will either dispute ignorance and wouldn't change anyway, probably because some friends back the same fault up. Yet, if we all started arguing at every poor boater the fun of the canals would be a chore. So, most just zip our mouths, smile and move on. So, if we want to be 'left alone' boaters should 'close the door' on promoting bad practice and stop being a wedge that keeps that door open for the sort of privacy invasion you, me and others don't want. Anyway, nice words from CRT, looks promising.

Nah, that's so last century. GPS and auto payment deduction is the future! *runs*

Which just proves human nature and our current culture in this country. Don't do the right thing unless means are put forward so your forced to. It's no different to any other thing, benefits, motoring etc. We all have to ask ourselves..personally, 'what would make me comply?' . If the answer is anything other than its the right thing to do, for the benefit of all, then your personally voting for measures to force you to comply. So, ask yourself, am I a problem that needs a solution forced on me to change my ways, or can I make a personal responsible positive decision without pressure? The lowest common denominator will justify actions to make you comply. So, If a sign says 48hrs then move on, and there is no enforcement....no stick, and your first thought is 'I can get away with this', the solution is what makes you....forces you to comply. We can moan as much as we like, but in the end, the silent minority ( or majority who just don't admit to it) will shape how problems are dealt with. The only short term solution before the inevitable is to look down on those who abuse rules, bend them. Those who love the canals and the freedom we have (compared to the roads which will get tougher and tougher restrictions fuelled by technology) should promote responsibility, not getting away with it and the 'I'm alright jack, it's only me doing it' singular attitude. Personally, people will not ( or can't) act In the best interest in us all, and will continue on with their own personal agenda, screwing it up for all of us.

I think the 2 day rules is easy and simple to understand. I don't want the canals to get like the roads and parking signage (which can be way more confusing) but it will evolve that way eventually if individual boaters can't take responsibility for themselves and stick within the rules, not bending them. My idea (or what is basically similar to road parking, so not technically mine!) is only in response to those who pick holes because they want fairness from a situation where they will be penalised for returning (why?) or may lose out where they gained before. If your going to complain, be prepared for a solution to your problem. Careful what your arguing for is the moral!

For those who find that the 2 day limits are confusing, how about a system where there is a set time limit (like 48hrs) and there is signage indicating you a text number to 'log in'. Your time starts then and you text again when leaving. For those who would 'pretend' they arrived later, a website should be available to check for mooring movements, leaving times, boats currently moored etc. Personally, I feel the 48hr old way is open to abuse, skimming a few extra hours (or days), warden watching etc.

Although £4000 is probably a bit steep, I think there is good logical reasoning for the fee's to be more expensive than they are. For those that choose to CC, it's not going to get any cheaper, fuel is going to go up, cruising will go down, apart from those with money and time will be afforded that luxury, eventually. People can still CC, just will not be the cheap option. More residential moorings, more marinas maybe.

Or just charge £3000 to £4000 a year for CCing.......

We phoned them up for a quote a few weeks back, about 6 weeks just to come out. So busy they weren't very interested in our business.

I don't have a problem with the group, seems, on a whole a nice idea. But, the agenda will all be about mooring longer, enforcement and the inevitable licence fee hike. Probably.

There are many considerate boating issues that are guidance and not strictly 'rules'. I'm pretty sure that anybody who disregards minor issues as trivial and ignores them (usually for their own benefit) will also have some bee in their bonnet about something else. Dont close lock gates, going too fast, poor mooring practices, fishing in locks etc etc. Once those who start being selective on what is considered being lowly guidance, end up picking and choosing rules and laws as well.

We always close the gates, we assumed that is the right thing to do, it even mentions it specifically in the boaters handbook. Sometimes they spring back, sometimes you have to guess and wait if an oncomming boat wants to use the lock or moor up. Not much of a problem really. Now boats that only open one gate.........

The problem with the boater providing photo evidence is that it needs to prove something. Its no good having a photo with the notice on the boat when its easy to snap a picture somewhere after the event, somewhere else. This is one reason why traffic wardens take photos of the instance involved, to prove you were there. Hopefully there is an easy process to clear mistakes and false claims...if not, there should be!

The thing is, with any erected sign, you can only guess the history why it was erected. There could be some danger to the fishermen, boats or may be a residential noise thing or even an accident and somebody sued.....we really don't know. Sometimes a sign is just a sign informing you what you can or can't do, not a invitation to come up with a reason why it doesn't apply to you (the no mobile signs in petrol stations don't say why but people assume its about a spark fire risk, when it's mostly about paying attention.). Personally I feel it's not a good advert for fisherman and others should be just as annoyed as boaters. No fishing is pretty clear and it's an obvious rule, it's etiquette for boats to slow down for fishermen angling. Anyway, I'm sure the sign in the photo reads 'No Fisting' anyway.

You get a free Parker pen, I think.

Hypothetically, if CRT in future had extra powers and it was a fine, rather than a charge, would it change your point of view? Assuming your against any sort of charges/incentive?

I suppose they support the CRT view that there must be an 'incentive' to stop people overstaying on VM. Maybe they should propose that CRT have a line of contact where boaters can have the charge waived if in trouble, emergency or need a temporary extension.

I'm not a member but I assume it means they are opposed to charging for visitor moorings, ie....24, 48 hr etc where they are currently free, and in favour of charges for overstaying on them. Pretty fair.

Nice and informative. Honestly wouldn't of guessed they were in favour of overstaying charges.