HS2 Northern Routes

[RLWP]

No, it means that:

 

1. The basin is not on the maps used as a background image to the route plan
   
2. The survey has been made properly, including the basin
   
3. The current plan is to put the maintenance yard on top of the basin
   
4. Now is the time to enter into consultation
   

 

Richard

Edited January 30, 2013 by RLWP

[Higgs]

This was the point I made yesterday, about how the irony apparently escapes some forum members.

 

 

We are at a different point of industrial revolution, though. And the example of comparing objections to an historic project is not irony. And railways aren't new. And government cockups aren't rare.

 

There's no irony, only plans and objections.

 

 

I'm just plain out of trust, and see no reason to reinstate that trust.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Higgs

[cheshire~rose]

Thanks Richard

 

1. The basin is not on the maps used as a background image to the route plan - I can understand how the map may be a bit out of date and not show the basin but if that is the case how does it show something as existing when in fact it does not but is just something proposed for the future?
   
2. The survey has been made properly, including the basin - Of course they know it is there. But I wonder which bit of standing in a muddy field made them think they were next to a road.
   
3. The current plan is to put the maintenance yard on top of the basin - the current plan will meet with much objection
   
4. Now is the time to enter into consultation - that is happening big time - I am fortunate enough to be copied into an email conversation between so many people who really do understand all these maps and plans and stuff so much better than me and their finds are so interesting. What is important is that these are influential people who know how to lobby and who to lobby ... I sincerely hope that the people who have plans to restore canals in other areas that are affected by HS2 also have people of this calibre.
   

[Morat]

Yes, I believe the preferred location is somewhere in the Chilterns:-)

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

Honestly? I thought it was in on "Boris Island" - not that I'm affected either way.

What I will say is that moving the traffic from Heathrow away from London should be a priority because it would have immediate health benefits for many people.

As for HS2... I still think it's a very marginal project. Taking the train to meetings is very quaint and romantic, but hardly a realistic proposition unless someone else is paying.

[furnessvale]

What I will say is that moving the traffic from Heathrow away from London should be a priority because it would have immediate health benefits for many people.

As for HS2... I still think it's a very marginal project. Taking the train to meetings is very quaint and romantic, but hardly a realistic proposition unless someone else is paying.

 

With HS2 connecting Heathrow, Birmingham and Manchester Airport how about transferring some air traffic northwards. In terms of the time used, HS2 from Heathrow to Birmingham Airpport would be little more than an inter terminal shuttle.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Morat]

With HS2 connecting Heathrow, Birmingham and Manchester Airport how about transferring some air traffic northwards. In terms of the time used, HS2 from Heathrow to Birmingham Airpport would be little more than an inter terminal shuttle.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

I wonder if that could be made to work... I think we'd have to know what proportion of Heathrow passengers ever set foot outside the terminal at which they arrived.

The basic problem with Heathrow would still remain, it dumps a shedload (precise scientific term) of burnt avgas onto the West of London quite apart from the noise.

MY basic problem with HS2 still remains: What is it for? Who will it benefit? Why are we so convinced that railways are the technology of the future?

I think we should reduce business travel (by whatever method) and give tax breaks for video conferencing equipment. The tech is here and it works - we just need people to use it. For instance, all the laptop users I support have softphones capable of video conferencing within the company. Does anyone use the video option? No.

Why?

All sorts of reasons which can mainly be summed up by "Vanity".

[system 4-50]

Why can't the whole thing go in a tunnel?

We have global warming coming.

So obviously our weather is going to get sharply colder.

So HS2 will be under snow drifts half the year.

So put it in a tunnel and we will still be able to travel from one frozen part of the UK to another frozen part when other forms of transport cannot operate.

Just how much more would it cost? 1 OG? 2 OGs?

[furnessvale]

I think we should reduce business travel (by whatever method) and give tax breaks for video conferencing equipment. The tech is here and it works - we just need people to use it. For instance, all the laptop users I support have softphones capable of video conferencing within the company. Does anyone use the video option? No.

Why?

All sorts of reasons which can mainly be summed up by "Vanity".

 

When I see this principle demonstrated by noticeable reductions in motorway traffic then I will accept it. Until then we must prepare for the physical movement of people (not forgetting freight which cannot be video conferenced).

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[system 4-50]

I wonder if that could be made to work... I think we'd have to know what proportion of Heathrow passengers ever set foot outside the terminal at which they arrived.

The basic problem with Heathrow would still remain, it dumps a shedload (precise scientific term) of burnt avgas onto the West of London quite apart from the noise.

MY basic problem with HS2 still remains: What is it for? Who will it benefit? Why are we so convinced that railways are the technology of the future?

I think we should reduce business travel (by whatever method) and give tax breaks for video conferencing equipment. The tech is here and it works - we just need people to use it. For instance, all the laptop users I support have softphones capable of video conferencing within the company. Does anyone use the video option? No.

Why?

All sorts of reasons which can mainly be summed up by "Vanity".

My experience of teleconferencing is that it does not work well unless

1. the attendees already know each other

2. the conference is extremely well chaired

Often it was worth the effort of travelling to get a decent result.

 

 

[Morat]

When I see this principle demonstrated by noticeable reductions in motorway traffic then I will accept it. Until then we must prepare for the physical movement of people (not forgetting freight which cannot be video conferenced).

 

George ex nb Alton retired

I include motorway travel in "business travel" - although it is already highly taxed.

 

My experience of teleconferencing is that it does not work well unless

1. the attendees already know each other

2. the conference is extremely well chaired

Often it was worth the effort of travelling to get a decent result.

 

I don't dispute your findings, but I do think more effort should be put into teleconferencing technology and making people use it better.

[carlt]

I don't dispute your findings, but I do think more effort should be put into teleconferencing technology and making people use it better.

I used to have a job that sent me around the World going to meetings, conferences, exhibitions and the like and I was told I was pretty good at it too.

 

I could have done the job by walking from an office to a teleconference suite, I suppose, but I wouldn't have done it for long and I wouldn't have been any good at it either.

 

Travel enriches the mind. Never leaving an office building impoverishes it.

[Guest]

Some people are very happy it seems -

 

Joy in South Yorkshire

 

One lady much less so.

 

Misery in Bucks

[mike31]

they seem to have found a way of saving money on the local section, there using the high voltage power lines already on the route for the overhead wires for the trains.

 

that or putting half of derbyshire into darkness

[cheshire~rose]

I am going to quote an email I was copied into today. I hope the person who wrote has no objections but when I read it I was overwhelmed by the emotion it conveyed.

 

The person was due to do a talk about The Chesterfield Canal to a group of people today and was unsure what to talk about after the news this week.

He writes:

There was one lady in the audience in tears. It turned out she came from Kent. Some years ago when the Channel Tunnel high speed line proposals were published, she discovered it passed 7metres from her house. She said she had eight years of hell and blight before she got compensation. In that time her community was split in two and many of her friends and neighbours became very ill with stress related disorders.

She said as soon as she could, she ran away to get as far away as possible. She moved to Staveley. Now she says it is the nightmare all over again.

 

[kiki]

they seem to have found a way of saving money on the local section, there using the high voltage power lines already on the route for the overhead wires for the trains.

 

that or putting half of derbyshire into darkness

 

That's OK, up here in Derbyshire..when the end of the world comes, we still have 20 years to go anyhow. Got a letter from HS2 to say that one of my apartments is above a proposed tunnel , yay so what does that mean ?? People in london live over the tube lines and it doesnt seem to affect them. Considering our flat is about a 1.5 miles from the proposed station I hardly see the train running much faster than a tram at that stage. Still think its a waste of money though - but if not - bring on compulsory purchase - it beats the housing market anyday

[Athy]

I am going to quote an email I was copied into today. I hope the person who wrote has no objections but when I read it I was overwhelmed by the emotion it conveyed.

 

The person was due to do a talk about The Chesterfield Canal to a group of people today and was unsure what to talk about after the news this week.

He writes:

 

 

Remarkable - I had never heard of a person who moved to Staveley BY CHOICE - particularly from the Garden of England.

If you had known the place before Staveley Works closed down you would understand this.

[Guest]

That's OK, up here in Derbyshire..when the end of the world comes, we still have 20 years to go anyhow. Got a letter from HS2 to say that one of my apartments is above a proposed tunnel , yay so what does that mean ?? People in london live over the tube lines and it doesnt seem to affect them. Considering our flat is about a 1.5 miles from the proposed station I hardly see the train running much faster than a tram at that stage. Still think its a waste of money though - but if not - bring on compulsory purchase - it beats the housing market anyday

 

Actually you can under certain conditions hear and feel 'The Tube' when you are in certain buildings - it depends on the depth, some run quite near the surface.

 

The tunnels to be be built for HS2 will be of two types. Cut and cover (shallow) mainly for where they are wanting to use a tunnel to reduce the visual and audible impact of the lines and bored tunnels (deeper) where they need to tunnel under a natural obstruction such as hills or man made such as East Midlands airport. I suspect (but can't say for definite) the one under your apartment will be quite deep.

[cheshire~rose]

Remarkable - I had never heard of a person who moved to Staveley BY CHOICE - particularly from the Garden of England.

If you had known the place before Staveley Works closed down you would understand this.

 

I too would struggle to understand why someone might make that move, except that while the immediate area is currently undergoing a huge transformation with regeneration (which will presumably stop dead now while these new plans rumble on) It is so very close some truly gorgeous areas of Derbyshire. There are some very pretty properties in Staveley - you might have to seek them out but they are there, and maybe this lady chose to move there because her family was close by?

 

As so often happens there is often more to a story, we will never know but she is just one among thousands who are probably feeling a worried about it all.

[Athy]

AThe tunnels to be be built for HS2 will be of two types. Cut and cover (shallow) mainly for where they are wanting to use a tunnel to reduce the visual and audible impact of the lines .

These are the ones which you can sometimes hear in London, the cut-and-cover lines, principally the Metropolitan and the District lines.

In Paris it's even more noticeable, as most of the older lines follow the streets and are only a few feet underneath them. If there is not too much traffic, you can hear the street apparently rumbling.

[cheshire~rose]

That's OK, up here in Derbyshire..when the end of the world comes, we still have 20 years to go anyhow. Got a letter from HS2 to say that one of my apartments is above a proposed tunnel , yay so what does that mean ?? People in london live over the tube lines and it doesnt seem to affect them. Considering our flat is about a 1.5 miles from the proposed station I hardly see the train running much faster than a tram at that stage. Still think its a waste of money though - but if not - bring on compulsory purchase - it beats the housing market anyday

 

Install a firemans pole directly from the aprtment to the tunnel then you can market the apartment as being withn commuting distance of London and hike the rent up accordingly

[Guest]

These are the ones which you can sometimes hear in London, the cut-and-cover lines, principally the Metropolitan and the District lines.

In Paris it's even more noticeable, as most of the older lines follow the streets and are only a few feet underneath them. If there is not too much traffic, you can hear the street apparently rumbling.

 

You can indeed - it's the same in New York where I think most of their subway was built using Cut and cover.

 

I remember from visiting Paris that the Metro there runs on rubber tyre wheels - I wonder if this is an attempt to keep the noise down?

 

Found an interesting article on Wiki -

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber-tyred_metro

 

(By 'interesting' I mean of course if you are a train anorak)

Edited February 1, 2013 by The Dog House

[Athy]

It is so very close some truly gorgeous areas of Derbyshire.

That's right, the best thing about Staveley was the road which led out of it, on its way to the attractive parts.

I'm Chesterfield-born and the Peak District was my family's "playground" when I was a boy, from the time that Dad bought his first car we criss-crossed it and explored the hills and dales constantly up until the time when he changed his job and we left the area.

"Pretty parts of Staveley" sounds like an oxymoron to me but, as you'll guess, I have not seen it since the works closed down. It may well have improved; it could scarcely have done otherwise.

I did like the Victorian shunting engines which we sometimes glimpsed as we drove past the works, though.

[cheshire~rose]

I would not say there are any "pretty parts" of Staveley either. There are many that have been greatly improved recently but as for pretty? not yet. It was pretty properties I mentioned - the type you might like to pick up and place somewhere else!

 

But then the price tag would reflect the location too.

[Athy]

It was pretty properties I mentioned - the type you might like to pick up and place somewhere else!

 

But then the price tag would reflect the location too.

What in estate agent speak is called "Outstanding for the area", yes. I guess that if this HS2 line goes ahead, they won't be selling such houses, they'll be paying people to live in them.

[Guest]

Back to the OP - One further waterways crossing I've discovered is at the south end of the new Meadowhall station where HS2 will cross the Sheffield and South Yorkshire Navigation at a point part way through the 'Tinsley' flight.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2013 by The Dog House