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Carbon monoxide

canalboater2012

By canalboater2012
in Living Afloat

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canalboater2012 Contributor

canalboater2012

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Hi all right here's a question I no has been answered many times before but I was on the boat 2 weeks ago just for a few hours over 2 days & both days when I got home I noticed bad head aches feeling sick etc & on both occasions I had lot the stove. Now my boat only passed its BSC on the 16th Nov and the stove was checked. The boat is now out if the water anyway as its being blacked & a few other bits doing so I've asked them to check the stove. But am wondering wot is it that produces CO? Is there always CO in a stove but as long as the stove isn't leaking then your ok? Someone has told me that buy turning the damper & vents right down it will produce it?

 

Ps I do have a CO /fire detector but this didnt go off.

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canalboater2012 Contributor

canalboater2012

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Yes I no that now but I need to find out wot causes the CO I've ordered a replacement detector from midland chandlers now as taking no chances

 

Yes I no that now but I need to find out wot causes the CO I've ordered a replacement detector from midland chandlers now as taking no chances

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Richard10002 Veteran II

Richard10002

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I've got 2 CO detectors, one of which cost £30 but has a display which shows CO level in ppm, (I think). One is in the bedroom just above our heads, and the one with the display is in the lounge, about 6" from the ceiling.

 

With 2 detectors, it would be quite a coincidence for both to fail at the same time, so there is some built in redundancy.

 

The bedroom detector has gone off a few times, but it is always when I've left a pan full of hot ash by the stove, rather than taking it outside to cool. The lounge one usually registers zero CO, but occasionally 10 or 20ppm. It has a reading of the highest level over the past 14 days, and this has been as high as 78ppm. Apparently, a constant 35ppm does humans no harm.

 

If I were you, I would get a second monitor, and would probably splash out on the one with a display.

 

On the stove, to test for integrity of the seals, get a few smoke bombs, set one off, and see what happens, with the stove door and all damper vents etc. closed. When I did this earlier in he year, after removing the stove for a clean and new glass, there was tons of smoke out of the chimney, but none in the cabin - as you would hope.

 

You might need a new rope for the door seal, or there might be a leak at one of the joints in the flue, or it might all be fine, and you just got a headache, like we all do from time to time :)

 

Edited to change CO2 to CO

Edited by Richard10002
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Mac of Cygnet Veteran II

Mac of CygnetDonate to Canal World

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Anything that burns fossil fuels causes C02.

:)

 

True but irrelevant.

 

The OP was (rightly) asking about CO (carbon monoxide), which is almost always produced when any fuel is burned with a limited air supply, for example when closing down a stove. Again, as he rightly says, this should harmlessly exit up the chimney.

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the grinch Experienced

the grinch

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basically there is 2 things to concider 1. Carbon monoxide 2. lack of oxygen the later is most common if you are drawing air for combustion from the room then you need air coming in from outside of equal proportion not sure on solid fuel but Natural gas open flued appliances need 5cm square for every kw over 7 kw. so check that you have adequate air coming in otherwise you will start to breathe your own discharged air this is what often causes dehydration, nausea and general light headedness.

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The Bagdad Boatman (waits) Rising Star

The Bagdad Boatman (waits)

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Poor combustion causes more carbon monoxide than a good clean burn. Symptoms of poisoning are headaches and blue lips through oxygen depletion even if you are rescued from a smoke filled room you may still die despite anything the hospital can do. Check seals on front and top for leaks.

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Laurie Booth Veteran

Laurie BoothDonate to Canal World

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True but irrelevant.

 

The OP was (rightly) asking about CO (carbon monoxide), which is almost always produced when any fuel is burned with a limited air supply, for example when closing down a stove. Again, as he rightly says, this should harmlessly exit up the chimney.

"I need to find out wot causes the CO"

I was answering his question.

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Jim Batty Proficient

Jim Batty

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Have a read of our new CO advice pages - they have the answer to this question and probably a few others in your mind at this moment

 

BSS carbon monoxide advice website pages

Good link. Thanks.

 

We had a weird problem a week or so after I'd cleaned the chimney on our solid fuel stove this year. Smoke seemed to be coming out of the closed vents over the stove door. Should have been impossible after cleaning and a trouble-free week of fires. Anyway, with weeping eyes and a headache I opened all the windows and houdini to air out the boat and dumped the hot coals into the canal.

 

Next day, when it was light, I shone a torch into the slit space above the inside roof plate of the stove and could just make out what looked like a paper thin sheet blocking about 3/4 of the flue at its base. I poked it with a long knife and it disintegrated to dust. Everything else in the chamber was clean and clear. It must have been a wafer-thin piece of crust off the inside of the smoke stack that the cleaning brush had loosened.

 

I am still absolutely amazed that something so insubstantial as that could effectively block the flue and force smoke (and CO) into the cabin. What would stop it falling down in the middle of the night?

 

Anyway, now looking for a good CO alarm. I saw 'FireAngel' and 'Ei Electronics' alarms in Robert Dyas. Would anyone recommend these or any others that would be good. Aesthetically, I'd prefer as small as I can get.

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MtB Veteran II

MtBDonate to Canal World

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Good link. Thanks.

 

We had a weird problem a week or so after I'd cleaned the chimney on our solid fuel stove this year. Smoke seemed to be coming out of the closed vents over the stove door. Should have been impossible after cleaning and a trouble-free week of fires. Anyway, with weeping eyes and a headache I opened all the windows and houdini to air out the boat and dumped the hot coals into the canal.

 

Next day, when it was light, I shone a torch into the slit space above the inside roof plate of the stove and could just make out what looked like a paper thin sheet blocking about 3/4 of the flue at its base. I poked it with a long knife and it disintegrated to dust. Everything else in the chamber was clean and clear. It must have been a wafer-thin piece of crust off the inside of the smoke stack that the cleaning brush had loosened.

 

I am still absolutely amazed that something so insubstantial as that could effectively block the flue and force smoke (and CO) into the cabin. What would stop it falling down in the middle of the night?

 

Anyway, now looking for a good CO alarm. I saw 'FireAngel' and 'Ei Electronics' alarms in Robert Dyas. Would anyone recommend these or any others that would be good. Aesthetically, I'd prefer as small as I can get.

 

My advice is to buy both. Should one fail, you may never know about it. The chances of two, each from different manufacturers, failing together are discountably small.

 

MtB

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mrscloudinspector Engager

mrscloudinspector

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Just wanted to say that this post made me think about making sure our alarm was actually working so got Mr C to check it with an incense stick (patchouli in case you were wondering) and yes it did go off so don't just get an alarm fitted, make sure you test it regularly.The alarm is a Fire Angel and is placed in the corridor between the saloon and bedroom. We also have a Vetus alarm in the galley which is also a gas detection system but we haven't tested that yet a the previous owner connected it to a car horn as he thought the alarm sound was a bit feeble and it was getting late.... Don't want to upset the neighbours!!

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ditchcrawler Veteran II

ditchcrawlerDonate to Canal World

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Just wanted to say that this post made me think about making sure our alarm was actually working so got Mr C to check it with an incense stick (patchouli in case you were wondering) and yes it did go off so don't just get an alarm fitted, make sure you test it regularly.The alarm is a Fire Angel and is placed in the corridor between the saloon and bedroom. We also have a Vetus alarm in the galley which is also a gas detection system but we haven't tested that yet a the previous owner connected it to a car horn as he thought the alarm sound was a bit feeble and it was getting late.... Don't want to upset the neighbours!!

So where is the horn mounted?

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Bobbin Contributor

Bobbin

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Carbon Monoxide is a heavy gas, it's best to site your CO alarm low down and check the batteries on a regular basis. Mine worked a treat when I forgot to swap the the chimney cap for the chimney and lit the fire!!

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nb Innisfree Veteran II

nb InnisfreeDonate to Canal World

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Carbon Monoxide is a heavy gas, it's best to site your CO alarm low down and check the batteries on a regular basis. Mine worked a treat when I forgot to swap the the chimney cap for the chimney and lit the fire!!

 

Sorry but this is wrong and therefore dangerous advice, LPG is heavier than air but Carbon Monoxide (CO) is practically the same density as air and can exist at any level, usually, but not always, at a higher level due to it coming from a hot source.

 

CARBON MONOXIDE (CO) CAN OCCUR AT ANY LEVEL.

Edited by nb Innisfree
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Bobbin Contributor

Bobbin

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No it's not.

 

It has a fairly even diffusion rate with air so the best place to site it is out of reach of kids, animals and inadvertent boshing from adults.

We all had a visit from the Lancashire Fire Safety officers and my CO alarm was deemed to be well sited and in working order. As well as testing and advice all boat owners on the marina were given (very posh) free smoke alarms.

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