Cheshire Ring or Four Counties Ring?

[Smithy]

Are either of the two mentioned cruising rings do-able in a week during the six week summer holiday?

 

If they are, roughly how many hours per day would we need to complete either ring?

 

Thanks.

[Paul C]

They're about the same for number of hours, but the 4CR is probably slightly less effort due to a bunch of locks (the ones on the Shropshire Union) being grouped in flights; and being all narrow locks (the Cheshire ring has 9 broad locks on the Rochdale).

Edited December 12, 2012 by Paul C

[alan_fincher]

Probably both very "do-able", but.......

 

Certainly the summer holidays can introduce some long delays, which normal route planning may not allow for. We have for example queued for approaching two hours at Minshull lock on the Middlewich branch of the Shroppie, with maybe a dozen boats waiting in each direction. Also long delays at the two locks at Hack Green on the Shroppie.

 

That was a couple of years ago - this summer it was not as bad, but then we really didn't have a summer this year, which may be why! Still did a certain amount of queuing though....

[Ryeland]

They're about the same for number of hours, but the 4CR is probably slightly less effort due to a bunch of locks (the ones on the Shropshire Union) being grouped in flights; and being all narrow locks (the Cheshire ring has 9 broad locks in Rochdale).

Or rather more exactly, ON the Rochdale IN Manchester.

 

Richard

[Paul C]

Probably both very "do-able", but.......

 

Certainly the summer holidays can introduce some long delays, which normal route planning may not allow for. We have for example queued for approaching two hours at Minshull lock on the Middlewich branch of the Shroppie, with maybe a dozen boats waiting in each direction. Also long delays at the two locks at Hack Green on the Shroppie.

 

That was a couple of years ago - this summer it was not as bad, but then we really didn't have a summer this year, which may be why! Still did a certain amount of queuing though....

 

 

I think you were just unlucky, 2 hours to queue at that lock isn't typical.

 

Also bear in mind that route planners will typically use a figure of 8 hours per day. If you were held up unexpectedly for 2 hours, you could easily make up the time, by cruising into the evening or getting up earlier the next day.

[rgreg]

Done both in a one week hire (crew of 4). Probably averaged 8 hour days and even managed a trip up the Upper Peak Forest with the Cheshire Ring (well worth it).

[PiRSqwared]

Did the 4CR in a week a couple of years ago. If you like moving all day it's a doddle!!

[alan_fincher]

I think you were just unlucky, 2 hours to queue at that lock isn't typical.

Yes, I'm not claiming it as typical, but that arm always seems to be busy, and we have never for example, come through Wardle without several boats queuing, even at Easter. Because of the characteristics of that lock, people often want to fill it on only half a paddle, and the queues start to form, particularly if nobody is prepared to wait under the bridge at the foot of the lock, and you have to wait while a boat faffs to get through the junction coming out of the arm, only to watch the next one in having several attempts to get the boat pointed under the bridge. I've seen it where I doubt we even got 4 full cycles of that lock in an hour, because of a mixture of caution and inexperience.

 

I'm not disputing you'll get around in a week, (I said that you will), but if you relied on CanalPlanAC on summer timings you might be looking at several extended days, if it is a busy summer. If we have a crap summer likethis year, when a lot of the hire boats stay tied up at base, it will be easier, (but wetter!).

 

Obviously if you do the 4 counties, Harecastle is time-limited - arrive there at the wrong time of the day, and you are going nowhere until the first passage next morning.

[matty40s]

canalplan gives a standard 7 hour day if you do not change any settings.

In summer, you have 16-ish hours of daylight, reducing to about 14 at the end of August so a couple of early starts or late finishes make this a very achievable target. Getting up early to hit a flight of locks before/during breakfast would make this a doddle, either of them, but especially the Shroppie/T&M ring with it's long cruising pounds.

[Smithy]

Thanks for the replies.

 

So if we managed 10 hours per day we should have enough time to do both? (even with normal summer holiday traffic).

 

Now, if you had the choice which one do you prefer and why.

 

Which one is more scenic? I know the Cheshire Ring goes through Manchester but which one has the better countryside to travel through.

 

Also, I've been looking at www.canalplan.org.uk and it seems like a great tool to use, is it as accurate as it appears to be or does it have one or two flaws?

[Keeping Up]

CanalPlan is fairly accurate on default settings, and very accurate if you change the defaults to match your actual speed of travelling - but of course it cannot make any allowances for delays such as queues at the locks.

[alan_fincher]

CanalPlanAC is a spectacularly useful tool, and can be customised to the rate of progress you think you can make.

 

But it is only as good as the assumptions, and defaults you feed in.

 

If you tell it you will take 10 minutes for each narrow lock in a flight, it will tell you the locks at Audlem will take 15 times 10 minutes, so 2.5 hours, (plus the miles, of course).

 

If Audlem is clear, with all the locks in your favour, it will not take anything like that long, but if there are two boats waiting ahead of you at every lock, no way will you be through in 2.5 hours.

 

No planner can posibly get around this - so you do need to build in contingency, particularly in Summer on busy bits of the system.

 

I like the 4 counties, but personally much prefer the Trent and Mersey part of it to the Shroppie part. I like a good mix of locks in any day, so something like Heartbreak Hill is great, whereas the Shroppie can leave you with one day where you do nearly every lock on it, and the next day, maybe only one.

 

Going through Manchester is great too, although the Rochdale Locks are hardish work, due a continuous large flow of water pouring over the gates, making getting the other gates open hard work. (That is "wussie" Southern speak - someone will now tell you they are nowt compared to some other Northern locks!) Personally I found the run out of Manchester on the Bridgwater one of the most boring bits of canal ever, but we all differ. The Macc and Peak Forest, on the other hand are splendid.

 

I think I have just convinced myself I don't particularly prefer one ring to the other. If you have the patience to look at our blog, (details below) we broadly wrapped both into the same trip this summer, (July & August 2012), so you can see what we thought of various bits.

[Rob-M]

I last did the four counties a couple of years back going clockwise and seemed to find more boats going anti clockwise so we seemed to fly through where as there were queues at locks in the other direction. I tend to like to boat long days in the summer but use Canal Planner to give a rough guide especially on a one week hire doing a ring where you have to get back on time. I had a crew of wife and two young daughters so we weren't rushing but still got back early. I look for a target point fir mid werk and plan to that, on that trip it was making sure I had cleared Harecastle tunnel mid week.

[canalboater2012]

I did the 4CR this august. And did it in 6 days i never started before 10am and wont crusie past 6pm. Thats vino & pub time.excellent crusie ring too

[little duck!]

I love cruising early in morning/ later in evening as it's quieter and the scenery particularly in the morning is worth it, seems different early on! Must be to do with the light!

We did 4 counties and caldon (both Leek and Froghall branch)at the beginning of september, it took 9 days so i shpuld think the ring without the Caldon would be good. I really enjoyed the 4 counties ring, lots to see including some spooky cuttings! And of course the tunnel.

[rgreg]

Both rings are an excellent, interesting one-week hire. The Cheshire Ring gives a fascinating mixture of urban and rural and quite an active week. The Four Counties is equally interesting and probably a little less active. If you're new to it you might be better doing Four Counties first.

[RichardH]

Four Counties for me. Love it.

[harleyj]

We did the 4CR from Barton Turns Marina in 2008 in 14 days with one day not travelling and had a ball. This year we did the Cheshire ring from Mercia Marina in 14 days and again had a ball. If you were to start on the ring itself you would have no troubles doing either ring in a week. As for preference I would have to say that we thought that the Cheshire Ring has so much to offer and was the most interesting ring that we have done.

[NB Alton]

I'd echo the point that others have made, that in summer if you do have a time limit, it's best if some of your party like early morning starts (best time of the day for boating), that way you can make some good progress, get a bit ahead of schedule & then not have to stress about getting held up at places like the Middlewich Branch Locks & Audlem.

 

We did the 4 Counties in about 5 days in October, selling a few tonnes on the way & it probably is the easier or gentler ring if you're less experienced. I probably prefer the Cheshire ring, mainly because of the Macc (& Upper Peak Forest if you get a chance) but I'm biased. However I would say the Cheshire ring is probably more challenging.

 

Cheers, Brian

[purple_pineapple]

We're booked for the FCR in April next year, and me being me, I've already planned to the last detail! CanalPlan suggests about 9.5 hours average day to complete in hire week. I haven't tweaked many of the default settings, and with an experienced crew of 4, we should easily be able to reduce that with faster lock times etc.

 

My biggest concern was that I had two key places I wanted to spend a night - Tixall Wide and the Anchor. Because of this, we have a couple of longer days (getting on for 11 hours) and a couple of shorter ones, although to be fair, it could have been a lot worse!

 

My only real decision now is where to moor on the last night - we need to be approximately 1-2 hours North of Black Prince at Etruria. Any thoughts anyone?

[STUBAG]

Until the Dutton breach is fixed, it's got to be the Four Counties Ring. It's much more interesting anyway.

[rgreg]

We're booked for the FCR in April next year, and me being me, I've already planned to the last detail! CanalPlan suggests about 9.5 hours average day to complete in hire week. I haven't tweaked many of the default settings, and with an experienced crew of 4, we should easily be able to reduce that with faster lock times etc.

 

My biggest concern was that I had two key places I wanted to spend a night - Tixall Wide and the Anchor. Because of this, we have a couple of longer days (getting on for 11 hours) and a couple of shorter ones, although to be fair, it could have been a lot worse!

 

My only real decision now is where to moor on the last night - we need to be approximately 1-2 hours North of Black Prince at Etruria. Any thoughts anyone?

Westport Lake, between bridges 127 and 128

Edited December 13, 2012 by rgreg

[little duck!]

We stayed at Tixall wide, it's worth it! Also Rode heath as it breaks the heartbreak hill up nicely! When are you doing the tunnel as without a map infront of me I'm no good at North/south etc!

 

Westport Lake, between bridges 127 and 128

I was going to say that if the tunnel was one of the last features of the holiday but like i say wasnt sure of North etc! Hope you get through tunnel at a suitable time! We were the last boat of the day!

[Sheila in Sanity]

We're booked for the FCR in April next year, and me being me, I've already planned to the last detail! CanalPlan suggests about 9.5 hours average day to complete in hire week. I haven't tweaked many of the default settings, and with an experienced crew of 4, we should easily be able to reduce that with faster lock times etc.

 

My biggest concern was that I had two key places I wanted to spend a night - Tixall Wide and the Anchor. Because of this, we have a couple of longer days (getting on for 11 hours) and a couple of shorter ones, although to be fair, it could have been a lot worse!

 

My only real decision now is where to moor on the last night - we need to be approximately 1-2 hours North of Black Prince at Etruria. Any thoughts anyone?

You would need to be through the tunnel so I would suggest that your choice is:

 

The south end of Harecastle tunnel: bit dreary but about the right distance

 

Westport Lake: much pleasanter but I'm not aware of any shops or pubs within convenient walking distance

 

Back at Etruria on the towpath before the last canal bridge: means you'd have no last morning cruise but if you want a final meal out the pub at the marina is pretty good

 

Enjoy your trip

 

Sheila

[canalboater2012]

We're booked for the FCR in April next year, and me being me, I've already planned to the last detail! CanalPlan suggests about 9.5 hours average day to complete in hire week. I haven't tweaked many of the default settings, and with an experienced crew of 4, we should easily be able to reduce that with faster lock times etc.

 

My biggest concern was that I had two key places I wanted to spend a night - Tixall Wide and the Anchor. Because of this, we have a couple of longer days (getting on for 11 hours) and a couple of shorter ones, although to be fair, it could have been a lot worse!

 

My only real decision now is where to moor on the last night - we need to be approximately 1-2 hours North of Black Prince at Etruria. Any thoughts anyone?

West port lake just after the tunnel mate its really nice there or you could moor just by the cavery outside of Eutria marina cant think of anywere in between that id more.